On a good note even though several of the posts in this thread are bat $hit crazy they are normal compared to another forum I am on.

I am a member of a forum that has sections for almost every subject imaginable. There is a "unexplained mysteries and paranormal" section. If you don't take it seriously it is some of the best humor you could imagine.

They have the typical bigfoot, dogman, and ufo/alien wackadoodles. This virus has brought the conspiracy theorists out of the woodwork. A sane person couldn't make up the stuff they are saying is real. Cliff notes, this is a engineered virus to control the world and our economy will never recover.

Enjoy. https://www.city-data.com/forum/unex...es-paranormal/

I mean, you can think he's doing an outstanding job, but I keep seeing stories like this and thinking "If what's going on right now had been presented to a book editor as fiction three years ago it would have been rejected for being too heavy-handed and unbelievable."

https://us.yahoo.com/news/trump-admi...233508840.html

Ted

We get it, you think Agent Orange sucks. I don’t know why this thread hasn’t been locked and I don’t know why you haven’t been told to post your full name if you are going to post an opinion of a person or a company.

Whew, that was close
 

Not to worry, Jared is now taking charge.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/2938648001/
Glad he could take time away from solving that Middle East thing and straightening out the VA, among his many other tasks.
Just another thing to thank Lord Trump for-- streamlining government and ridding us of those lifelong bloodsuckers who were trained in useless fields that provided no benefit and giving us the ever so qualified Jared Kushner, among other "only the best", to help us in our need.
Could someone point me to the Fox news coverage of Jared's involvement? I could use a pep talk and of course can find nothing truthful in that pesky mainstream media.

It's too bad I can't call my cable company and have CNN, MSNBC & Fox News removed from my cable package. Would like to do to them what they have done to many, put out of work.


But since they all just spew the same garbage shutting all 3 down for now for good, I know what they are going to say without even having to watch, nothing but The Office, King of Queens, Seinfeld, and movies for me from here on out.


Wake me up with this virus is over.

Who knew?
 

this is from CNN, so of course I'm sure it's twisted
Of course there are many other instances of what was known, suggested, recommended and done the past couple of years on this subject, but this is just something else to keep in mind when you hear, at least twice a day from now until election, that the present situation was totally unforeseeable and "nobody would have ever thought it could happen".

Biden supporter
 

Jennifer Anniston.


Now her I could get behind.

The best way to gauge the stock market as a whole is to look at WWE Stock. If that one stock is performing well, the entire market is strong.

Only if you keep buying to prop it up

Vince McMahon WWE?

He is just talking smack.

Thankfully the wrestling card market is incredibly strong so far through this. Shockingly strong.

WWE is in tough shape with Wrestlemania being canceled in Tampa and being forced to be taped with no audience.

That is going to be very odd. I think they should postpone until Fall.

That's one sport where the performers feed off the fans.

I have tuned in briefly to the shows the past few weeks with no fans and it is almost unwatchable. I think it is a cash flow issue where they literately have no choice.

People are dying for some entertainment hence the explosion of Tiger King so they will get viewers but my expectations are low. I pay the $9.99 a month for the Network and barely use it so I can tune in for no additional cost. They are selling the rights through other platforms but I find it hard to believe it will be a hot ticket.

Maybe they will be very creative and it will be a pleasant surprise.

i happened to see some of that WWE last night...with noone there...it was bizarre to see the wrestlers hamming it up...with noone there!!!!! It's been decades since I've watched wrestling...it will likely be decades more before I watch again!!!

Well, one little thread off the tracks isn't that bad. Keep it clean....

The best wrestling these days is watching YouTube Documentaries.

So many good ones out there about the good old days of wrestling and their personal lives, seems like each wrestler had quite the interesting ride, and not many make it out of their 40's.


Also, on Vice TV the Series "Dark Side of the Ring" is tremendous.

For the most part I just watch Youtube to get my fix.

The Dark Side of the Ring is great. I watched everyone last year and tuned in to the Benoit and New Jack episodes for this season. New Jack was nuts. He wrestled in Orlando for the local promotion I go see a few years before I got involved and that dude is just nuts.

Just watch this about then times in a row and you will be good. Haha

Brody was amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqb7nihtp38


Hulk Vs. Andre never gets old.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUj9XhWVl0


It is amazing there was a stock market crash in 87 and because my parents didn't own stocks it was like nothing happened. Every penny I earned from mowing yards went to the 87 baseball cards. A year and a half later the market was at new highs. Incredible the obstacles this country has been through.

Your 1987 cards probably plummeted far worse than the stock market.

It's really tough to know what to do, financially. Everyone thought gold and other precious metals were the best hedge in a national crisis, but they are down now, too. Silver dropped from 18.00 an ounce to below 12.00 (briefly.)

I've always believed in quality, single family rental homes, but you need a cash set-aside, for stretches where the renters can't pay the rent, and unexpected maintenance.

And once this crisis is over, I'll be making a habit of getting a few extra bottles of shampoo, bars of soap, toothpaste, and yes, TP when I do my general shopping, to build up a nice supply.

As to cards..... they aren't a necessity, unlike rental property (people need to live somewhere,) so I think prices will come down a bit but not bottom out. Some will sell for liquidity concerns, but many will not be too impacted by the crisis and will feel little pressure to sell.

I don't recall. I never felt like when I was chasing cards in 87 they got any cheaper heading into 88. Maybe they did and I just don't recall because my thirst for cards never waned.


My buddy Gregg just sold his signed 83 Inoki for $2,100 direct today. I know the buyer and his job is safe. The real issue is job security. Those that have it are going to be more willing to keep spending and those that don't won't. I had my best commission month in 25 months in March and my production was the highest in the first three months of the year in my 16 year career. With asset values down the next three months will be much lower but we shall see how things play out. That said a lot of people who are impacted in the service industry for example were never in a position to buy cards or make an impact in the hobby.

The length of the shutdown is what everything hinges on. Time will tell.

The big money cards are generally bought by people who have deep enough pockets where there will be no issue what so ever. I do think the very low end could be impacted if this lasts much longer as their discretionary income is quite vulnerable.

Longer term when the economy recovers the addiction known as collecting trading cards will be as strong as ever.

No idea what will happen with cards but the next 4 weeks are going to be brutal. We are really only 3 weeks into layoffs and 6mm people have hit the dole, mostly front line workers. Next shoe to drop is workers who service these industries, including a significant amount of high paying jobs. Basically millions of layoffs each week for the next 6-12 weeks.

I also don’t see a quick turn around. A lot of these jobs aren’t coming back, corporations are going to have to right size. I suspect we see short term UE in the 20% range, mid term around 10% and it will take years to get back to full employment.

I am also betting that spending habits change. A lot of people are about to learn how risky it is to live cheque to cheque. Consumerism was out of control the past decade. Here in Canada we are bailing out travellers that don’t have the funds to extend their stays overseas for an extra few weeks due to flight changes. Who goes away on a vacation with no extra money in the bank? Apparently lots of people think it’s reasonable to spend your last dollars on a trip to Mexico - these people are going to get wiped out.

It's amazing how many people live pay cheque to pay cheque but have all the latest greatest stuff one could imagine.

Not a nickle to rub against the other one but guaranteed they are going to get the next best iphone, or whatever it is when it comes out.

Not sure why we continue to cater/help these people out when they are too stupid/ignorant to know that having some savings is a good idea. :confused:

Not all people that don't have savings spend it in such a way. There are countless others that have to live cheque to cheque without taking trips or buying the latest device. In fact, the number of people that spend it irresponsibly are few and far between. How does government distinguish between those that are trying to make an honest living in a system that is designed to exploit them vs those taking advantage? They can't; so the moral thing to do is to help all and recognize some will cheat.

In fact, the misdeeds of the most wealthy and corporations costs governments far more than the average poor person needing government assistance.

If you're up for a good, non-partisan read during this period of quarantine, I suggest the book Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging by Sebastian Junger.

I didn't say everyone, I said those that take these vacations and have everything under sun who don't save.

Of course many people are struggling to make ends meet, I am not ignorant to that fact. It just frustrates me when I hear/see the other side whining/complaining how they never have any money but have zero clue they are the reason for that.

I think the number of those people is greater than you think? I see/hear it in my relatively small city quite often so I can imagine what it is like in much bigger cities/metropolis's.

There are many T.V. shows and other information sources out there to help people curb their spending and get out of debt, but in order for many to do, like anything, they need to admit they have a spending/debt problem first.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/26/cons...ble-spots.html

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/why-...e-stay-in-debt

Dale,

I believe you when you say when you aren't talking about all those living paycheck to paycheck.

Regarding what I quoted.

Statistics say otherwise. As a people, we are more inclined to focus on those that a) cheat the system b) flaunt.

Yeah, those that live way beyond their means made their own bed, but let's not assume the majority of those living paycheck to paycheck do so because they live lavishly and don't save.

It's like the old facebook trope regarding people that abuse social services entitlements. "I saw this woman in front of me talking on her iPhone with a Gucci bag paying with food stamps." Sure, there are those that do that and they get lots of attention, but they are in the significant minority. Let me break it down.

If you look at the hard data, the number of "common" people scheming the system cost the states and federal government in the U.S. far less than the executives and those engaging in corporate fraud... and it's not even close. Maybe it's different in Ontario, but I doubt it.

Here are some numbers:

Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)

On the other hand, fraud by American defense contractors amounts to $100 billion per year. Corporate fraud (such as insider trading or cooking the books) is up by more than 50% of what it was a decade ago. Nearly 90% of those cases directly involve CEOs, CFOs and in insider trading cases, politicians. This fraud costs U.S. citizens more than $10 trillion (works out to be upwards of $45,000 per citizen)

Guess which group continues to get rich at the expense of others and drives marketing campaigns designed to sell to those struggling to get by while simultaneously shaming them for poor spending habits?

Let's not vilify the average person trying to get by in a world that is designed to get people to spend, spend, spend.

"Approximately 3% of people abuse unemployment and entitlements like welfare. That costs U.S. citizens $3.5 billion dollars ($5,000 per citizen)"


Whomever says that is ignorant. That isn't a personal attack. it is they just don't know the truth.

And the truth is?

I had seen this article a while back. Seemed like a large number

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...fraud/2127897/

Sigh, I know it's not a personal attack, but I don't shoot from the hip. You've seen my research on the Bond Bread set.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publ...nsurance-fraud

https://s3.amazonaws.com/real.stloui...2/2012-024.pdf

On the other hand... not mentioned in my original post, but along the same lines: medicare fraud costs taxpayers $60 billion/year... in fact, Senator Rick Scott was CEO of a company that committed $300 million in medicare fraud and faced a fine of $1.7 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/u...d-economy.html

Oops... not 3%, but rather 4% - I admit my estimate was off slightly.

This article discusses the cost of the 2008 recession to U.S. citizens:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/22/b...g-tallied.html

It should be said that fraud of any kind, be it unemployment fraud, food stamp fraud, medicare fraud, securities and commodities fraud, etc. is awful and costly. However, the average person is more likely to vilify those committing food stamp or unemployment fraud despite it costing tax payers less overall. Meanwhile, the perps that commit the more costly fraud to taxpayers... securities and commodities fraud... are often overlooked.

Perhaps this is because it's easy to spot the person with a fake Gucci bag and iPhone paying with food stamps than it is to find the multi-millionaire (or billionaire) padding an extra zero to their net worth.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonco.../#40619d1df880

A more recent article on SNAP fraud... of note:

"When compared with those total figures, the fraud identified in 2016 amounted to a mere 0.9% of the total. That was up from 0.5% in 2012.

Or put another way, 99% of the benefit dollars were in no way associated with fraud, assuming that the government is doing its job of identifying malfeasance. If the fraud figure continues to grow at the same rate, then there is a real problem, but so far not so much."

Explosive finish on this 1989 Rotten to the Core set.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rotten-to-t...rdt=true&rt=nc


Very nice to see the Trump card going strong!

I gave my twin brother a PSA 10 for Christmas and kept two. I knew this card was going to be a monster!

+1, and a bonus to you for citing Forbes which no one can call left wing.

Ted

This is probably the worst case of "thread hijacking" I have ever seen. The OP asked the following question:

Will this stock market madness affect cards?

And look where it is now. Sigh*

Seems like every time I check completed listings I am pleasantly surprised. This just sold for $500.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dusty-Rhode...AOSwM0hdwNbdbd

I'm not sure if they are ignorant, but they are either math challenged or don't proofread what they type or something is not explained in the analysis.

There are currently around 340 million people living in this country. Let's be conservative and use the 2010 census figure of less than 309 million. Let's say 308 million people. Let's be further conservative and assume that 10% of the population are not citizens. That leaves 277 million citizens. $3.5 billion divided by 277 million is less than $13 per citizen. How did they come up with $5,000 per citizen? Or am I missing something?

Mike,

You're correct in that I failed to incorporate the rest of my data in my analysis and I was assuming that the figures provided were on the low / conservative end. That was my error - not ashamed to admit it. The data that I failed to include was medicare and medicaid fraud (approximately $100 billion/year, along with fraud in the private sector insurance industry ($100-300 billion/yearly). I also should have stated U.S. citizen over 18 or even taxpayer.

Once you factor that information in, it's about $2,000/U.S. citizen over 18. So even if one were to say that the number of people defrauding services is over 3%, the impact on taxpayers is still far less than the criminal actions of corporate executives that led to the 2008 recession.

anyone else pick up clct in 15s..

Perhaps you should learn how to use a television remote. It’s not very difficult to skip channels if you don’t like what’s on.

Shaun,

Thanks for the update. I thought I was going crazy.

Unfortunately, the fact as you've laid it out doesn't fit the preconceived narrative of some people so it will simply be dismissed as "fake news."

Just chiming in here, since I'm focused on a small niche as well. 1952 topps and signed cards. Sales have never been better, cards from $50 to 2k are flying on and off ebay. People are hoping we have seen the worst here in NY, and baseball and life should continue in a few weeks time.

Market has been rip roaring yesterday and futures today, but ear ings and guidence are about a week away. Never in history has a virus (flu) brought the world to its knees, a grinding halt. I'm hoping the world and small businesses can show resilience and hit the ground running.

in the 16s now.......

if everyone just buys CLCT will be plenty of money to buy cards....so thats how the stock market is impacting the hobby....

Just stamp every mask with "vote democrat" And there you go, a useful campaign promotional item.

I'm going to check that out.
I totally miss the weekly world news. Best crappy sci-fi around and dirt cheap too.

in the 17s now........can sell now and make a nice profit

The little town I live in was a hot spot early with 21 cases. On the good side we have not had a single new case in 6 days. 19 are recovered and sadly 2 didn't make it.

Have a great day everyone and stay safe.:)

There are going to be some people who make a fortune during this time.

I have had my best two trades ever in my retirement account.

fortunes already made...lots of stocks now are within 10-20% of pre- crash....

even the hotels etc made a big jump

all thats left are cruise ships and banks and airlines....

No love for Oil and REITs? Most still down close to 70%

Yes the 1% certainly has profited quite a bit. Mom and pop with their shops closed and a conservative 401k certainly "have not"

I think much of the 1% hasn't profited at all. If you were in a basic asset allocation you are down.

In the two areas you mention there are steep losses but someone will step in and buy and if there is just a minor retracement they can make huge gains.

There will be some hedge funds that went out of business from the decline and there will be some that have incredible gains.