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-   -   Show...me...your print variations! (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=187722)

ALR-bishop 04-20-2020 07:01 AM

For a time, Lemke was listing border gap defects in the Standard Catalog. He stopped doing that and I think removed some or all when he tightened up his definition of a variation...intentional change in card by manufacturer ( an often hard to apply definition).

The expanded use of scans on ebay and elsewhere made it clear there were minor and even major recurring print defects everywhere, and recognizing them was a lost cause. But the Fairly recognition was surprising. Did it not first get recognized in Beckett ? Maybe it is Rich's fault :)

Sliphorn 04-20-2020 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1972739)
I do not have that one, but it is low priority for me. It is extremely rare, no doubt. There was one that was clearly stated as such on eBay a few years ago that went for less than $50, if I remember correctly. ETA: It was January 2018 according to WorthPoint. It was just a perfectly placed piece of debris on the printing plate that made the 8 appear to be a 3. I do have a 1967 Spiezio, though :D.

I have one-Tom Billing

Cliff Bowman 04-20-2020 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliphorn (Post 1973095)
I have one-Tom Billing

Showoff :D.

Sliphorn 04-20-2020 05:13 PM

1955 #144 Amalfitano
 
2 Attachment(s)
Notice the vertical blue line at the left. One of the three does NOT have the blue line and I believe most do NOT. They are out there if that is your cup of tea.

steve B 04-20-2020 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1973033)
I couldn’t agree more, in my opinion the 61 Fairly green in ball is the worst vintage postwar variation that PSA recognized, with the 57 Bakep being the next. They recognized the 73 Earl Williams border gaps for a short time but then wisely stopped it. Hopefully they stopped recognizing the 73 Bahnsen and 73 Bell single border gaps as well.

I think some of them were recognized early on by the handful of people that were into variations. The Bakep and herrer were both in Ralph Nozakis book in 1975. And they're uncommon enough that I hadn't seen one until sometime after I joined here (Didn't look all that hard after a while)

When something is that uncommon, and it's listed during a time when there isn't ready access to images, I think most people take it on faith - Like I did, because hey, the guy wrote a book listing loads of variations, he must really be an expert!


The Fairly is just weird, because it got recognized at a time when images are readily available and sharable. I haven't yet seen a 61 with green in the ball that I'd think of as being anything but over inking or registration. (I do think they're possible, I've found a couple differences where the color under the back print is actually different. )

I'm more comfortable with the missing black cards, and the border gaps, as in most cases it's at least somewhat clear that the plate was either made differently or had a defect.
If the definition is intentionally changed, that works for me for variations, and maybe use varieties for plate differences that weren't intentional.
That's also a bit fuzzy, as an example, 88 Score has three different die cuts used to separate the sheet. And the changes were intentional as it was done in response to customer complaints. BUT they are also screened differently for one press run than another. Intentional? they probably happened when the errors were fixed, so to some extent intentional. But I don't think the person doing the new halftones was like "It will look better if I put the red at 30 degrees instead of 45" Likely the camera was set up that way that day, and they just didn't consider it to be important.
Lots of sets from that era have similar things going on.

swarmee 04-21-2020 07:28 AM

Speaking of recurring border gaps:
https://img.comc.com/i/Baseball/1959...inal&side=back
1959 Topps - [Base] #260.2 - Early Wynn (white back)
Courtesy of COMC.com

ALR-bishop 04-21-2020 07:38 AM

Good analysis Steve. The intentional change definition sounds simple but can be complicated in practice. It Topps adds a option or traded line that is easy, but it is often impossible to tell if a defect was discovered and intentionally changed or not

Another good example are DPs. In the last printed Standard Catalog Lemke listed variations for the 52 Mantle, Thompson and Robinson. PSA does not recognize them. The differences can be found on the front and back. The differences were likely not intended but did result from an intentional decision to DP those 3 cards

George Vrecheck has written articles on DP differences in the 63 and 55 (56?) sets. Green tint non pose differences from 62 are another example. Probably not intended but did result from an intentional change in the printing process. Variations ?

Bet a lot of 52 Master collectors are praying PSA does not adopt the 52 Mantle as a variation ;)

It would be tough to come up with a hobby definition that all would buy into or that would cover all past and future official variations

brightair 04-21-2020 12:46 PM

Variations on eBay
 
Folks,
Things being as they are, with time on my hands, I have been listing on eBay lots of cards from my many boxes piled in my closet. Some are print errors, variations, blank backs, color shifts and other oddities that some of you may have interest in. I have titled all of these "Variation" somewhere in the listing titles, my eBay seller's name is brightair. If you do a search you can find these. Many more will be listed over the coming weeks and months as I get to various boxes and binders. Furthermore, my zeal for compiling lists of variations has waned and I haven't been keeping them up-to-date, as I'm sure some of you have noticed. Others have been taking over this labor of love and will continue it into the future with even more thoroughness and depth than I was able. I am grateful to them for what they are doing and will accomplish, and look forward to their achievements. Meantime, may everyone be safe and well until we meet again in the flesh.
All the best!
Richard Dingman

Cliff Bowman 04-21-2020 08:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by brightair (Post 1973485)
Folks,
Things being as they are, with time on my hands, I have been listing on eBay lots of cards from my many boxes piled in my closet. Some are print errors, variations, blank backs, color shifts and other oddities that some of you may have interest in. I have titled all of these "Variation" somewhere in the listing titles, my eBay seller's name is brightair. If you do a search you can find these. Many more will be listed over the coming weeks and months as I get to various boxes and binders. Furthermore, my zeal for compiling lists of variations has waned and I haven't been keeping them up-to-date, as I'm sure some of you have noticed. Others have been taking over this labor of love and will continue it into the future with even more thoroughness and depth than I was able. I am grateful to them for what they are doing and will accomplish, and look forward to their achievements. Meantime, may everyone be safe and well until we meet again in the flesh.
All the best!
Richard Dingman

I love your description of the 1971 Topps Frank Reberger ink blob card, a sky
donut :D.

ALR-bishop 04-21-2020 08:34 PM

Greatly appreciate all your work Richard


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