I think people should be able to figure it out and if not then we can help .



Ĺ

This is an "Autograph Forum."

Its truly sad that in today's world, people with differing opinions can't even have a calm discussion anymore.

Some "opinions" aren't amenable to discussion, Jim. Calm or otherwise.
For example. "Are Nazis bad?"
Want to argue the "no" side?

It's Leon's right to not allow certain topics.

Yes it is.

There is nothing more uncommon than common sense, unless it's common courtesy. There is very little civility left in our civil discourse.

It certainly is.
I only mentioned that a separate section in another forum I participate in had a section where discourse on any subject was available.
If people don't want to read opinions on controversial subjects they just avoid the separate section.

Weird thing happened there. On my phone I typed the message you quoted, intending to elaborate, then decided it was too difficult to type on the phone and my elaboration was not important, so I attempted to cancel. Oddly, it posted. I must have screwed up something.

But I'll go ahead and elaborate now. I used to participate heavily in the 'Anything Goes' section of another hobby forum. I made few friends and a lot of enemies. I eventually had to abandon the entire forum. Years later I went back, but now only visit the classifieds and rarely the main forum. The problem is that when I visit the main forum I meet idiots and then I'm tempted to see just how stupid they are by visiting the 'Anything Goes' section.

I really don't want to find out how stupid the members here might be, or reveal how stupid I am, which is what internet discussions of politics and religion tend to do. So thanks Leon.

I hope there is never a section for religion/politics here. I've quit visiting both a golf and a college sports (school specific) message board because the animosity that developed in the 'anything goes' subforums spilled over to the other sections to one extent or another. More importantly to me...I come here via the 'new posts' search and I'd hate to be faced with having to sort through that nonsense every time. As it is now, I know that most any thread I choose to click will have something of interest, something I can learn from or something that blows me away. I don't ever even look to see what the forum is. I don't want that to change.

1) The OP should not have to put the word "autograph" in his title as it's an autograph forum.

2) I have no sympathy for the person banned. He knew it was against the rules, even stating that he would get banned, and did it anyway. Actions have consequences. He should have to live with his.

3) Leon can have whatever rules he wishes as it's his board.

4) Personally, I am glad we don't have a politics or religion subforum. Like others have said, knowing how people think, outside of the collecting area can often ruin the interactions we have within this specific area. Considering how much malice is currently out there, i prefer not to have any extra spill over.

5) The real tragedy is the fact that people don't seem to be able to discuss things calmly anymore, like Jim said. Sure, it's easy to point out the extremes like using Hitler or the Nazi's, in general, but the reality is that even far far less malicious things cannot be discussed anymore.

For some reason, it seems that emotion has melded with logic and reason to the point that attempting to logically discuss differing views becomes incredibly hard. It seems that every disagreement is taken as a personal attack. Once someone perceives it to be personal, they respond in kind and then the whole conversation falls apart. Politics and religion seem to be the two worst subjects, but it even happens talking about sports stuff. I know for a fact that some people will not post opinions about autographs because they fear that their opinions will come under attack instead of debate. Often times, my responses are wordy(like this one) because I really try to take the time to make my responses as unemotional and neutral as possible. I want to make my point without anyone taking my words as an attack or insult.

I hope that one day we can return to a time when people could just agree to disagree without venom. Where me having an opinion that is different than yours does not mean that I think you're stupid for having yours. Where we can have respect for each other and respect for the value of free and open discourse even for things we disagree with. For without that free and open discourse, we will slowly revert back to the dark ages when only those in power controlled what people are allowed to think.

[soapbox off]

Mike, Sorry for the ramble. If I knew anything about Trump's sig I would help you, but I do not. Best of luck with them
Mark

Mark,

I was going to post a rant about what an ass you are and how stupid your post is but I was afraid nobody would get the humor...

Shame. That would have been pretty funny.

I think it's just taking a really long time for internet discourse to evolve to where it somewhat resembles real life discussions. We've seen a lot of positive change over the last twenty years as moderators have learned techniques for keeping their forum discussions civil, and as people have gotten over the fun of flaming others, creating straw men, etc - basically, bad behavior techniques that you couldn't get away with face-to-face.

We're not there yet and probably won't ever be, but lots of slow improvement over the years.

With the great "Us and Them" divide, I'm reminded of the story:

During the Cold War 1960s, a group of Midwestern American citizens went on a trip to the Soviet Union. After returning, they were asked by the press for their impressions. They said their biggest surprise was to learn that the Russians citizens were "just normal people, like us."

Most political arguments are stupid and embarrassing to watch, which is why I completely skip them, and few, even in person, know my politics. Reasonable, reasoned debates with intelligent people of other political viewpoints are welcome with me. I like to hear different takes and reasonings-- and I know there are different legitimate ways to look at issues and problems, often based on different but legitimate priorities. However, I have an allergy to strawman arguments, cognitive biases and fallacies, zealotry, schoolyard namecalling, predetermined conclusions looking for evidence, etc-- and, yes, they come equally from both sides.

I was raised that the first person to call the other a name lost the debate, because, in a debate, you resort to name calling when you can't think of a legitimate counter-argument.

Bravo
 

Extremely well said. Have the maturity to enjoy a reasoned debate or discussion, and be mature enough to actually listen to a differing opinion. You may learn something, and keep your friends.

that's great that you have a place to post about politics so you don't need to do it here

This was signed in person by Trump and his wife. Their signatures vary.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5694/...5614cdaa_z.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/599/2...109b9df9_z.jpg

And here's Ivanka, also signed in front of me:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4271/...452c9418_z.jpg