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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>Jeff....<br><br>I am sending you my address now.<br><br><br>start sending checks.<br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>voted early by mail here in Arizona. nice to avoid the lines. By the way, where in Arizona do you live Todd?<br><br>we had some interesting propositions on the ballot in Tucson.<br><br><br>Kmac
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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>THANK YOU all Ohio voters,,,, bye, bye McCain and the hockey mom.<br>==<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br>Unknown author <br>--<br>We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br>No retreat baby, no surrender.<br>The Boss
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Posted By: <b>Rob D.</b><p>Definition of irony: <i>Glad to see that this thread has remained civilized, </i><br><br>You stay classy, Richard.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Can you say "landslide"?
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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Jeff, <br><br>Can I just pick a card instead?
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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Hi Ken, I live in central Phoenix, about 5-6 miles from downtown. I walked right up to the tables at 9:15 this morning, absolutely no waiting.<br>The one proposition that appears every general election and fails every time is the pay raise for the state legislators. I vote for it every time--public service and duty aside, $24K is way too little to attract anywhere near the best and brightest. Still, it and I get shot down everytime. Oh well, of all the things I was pulling for on this ballot, that's certainly one "loss" I can stand.
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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Anybody got an Obama rookie card?
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p><<Can I just get the damn addresses for which of you bums I have to send checks to? >><br><br>Sorry Jeff. Just like Guido the killer pimp, we deal in cash only. No checks. No bonds.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Rob D, <br><br>"You stay classy, Richard."<br><br><br><br>Did he seem just a touch intolerant to you too? Especially for a California type guy. <br><br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>California ??????????<br>==<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br>Unknown author <br>--<br>We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br>No retreat baby, no surrender.<br>The Boss
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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Well, Rich, I do recall you liking the Beach Boys. <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif">
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Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Bobby, that would not be possible for you to recall because I never liked the Beach Boys. I have a large collection of music including my teen age vinyl records, and there is not one Beach Boys piece among them <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif">.<br>==<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br>Unknown author <br>--<br>We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br>No retreat baby, no surrender.<br>The Boss
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Posted By: <b>Ken McMillan</b><p>Hi Todd,<br><br>Not surprised that the pay increase failed. Marana where I live had a few measures on the ballot but pretty boring. Looks like people mainly voted for the status quo. Was actually up your direction last Wednesday for the national hardball league world series. Some fantasy camp buddies were playing at Tempe Diablo.<br><br>Ken
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>This thread needs more cowbell<br><br><object width="425" height="350" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/V6Hryc5t2wQ"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V6Hryc5t2wQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><!--[if IE]><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V6Hryc5t2wQ"type="application/x-shockwave-flash"wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /><![endif]--></object>
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Richard Dwyer said,<br>"California has the Gay Marriage proposition. If you vote no, Bubba and all his boyfriends in prison can get married. Vote YES to end gay marriage!"<br><br>What's the matter Richard? Is your boyfriend pressuring you and you need an excuse? Just tell him you are not ready for that kind of commitment.<br>JimB
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I hope everyone appreciates the significance of Obama's landslide victory. That our country can overcome racial barriers and elect an African American president is historic. Hopefully, the old poitics are dead and a new era is upon us.<br><br>I wish president-elect Obama the best of luck in what will prove to be very difficult times ahead.
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Posted By: <b>Brock</b><p>Higher taxes for all!
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Barry, It's a great time and we were part of it. I am really joyfully shocked by Florida. Let's hope this event will depolarize the color attitude and make this country strong. <br><br>Richard, What an insensitive and immature comment. Wish I'd seen it sooner. Are you nine years old? <br><br>Perhaps the hateful, ignorant dinosaurs will have no choice but to open their minds in this new climate.
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br>Yeah, whats done is done. It will be interesting though to see how the tax increases only for the wealthy go over. Considering to start with the wealthy was 250k+ and it was lowered and lowered and lowered until this last time that Biden said the wealthy was 100k+. The health plan should go over well too with universal care. Now every Joe Blow will be able to go to the ER for a jammed finger...and it should only take six months to be able to get in and seen by a doctor for something actually important. <br><br>But I don't blame Barack Obama. He played it perfectly. McCain lost not because of anything other than the economy and Obama's "we don't need four more years of Bush"...I'm still not sure how McCain is Bush. Bush was so horrible that in fact no Republican could have overcome his tenor. <br><br>But what's done is done. I'll fall in line and hope Obama isn't Jimmy Carter who only got in because of how bad tricky Dick screwed things up before him.
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Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>I'm just relieved. Not as elated or happy as I thought I'd be - just simply relieved. The fact that the vote went so overwhelmingly Obama is ... overwhelming. <br><br>It was too bad McCain ran such a poor campaign. I've always regarded him very highly, but it seemed like he was so erratic - going for the gimic plays all the time instead of patiently grinding out yards with a consistent message.<br><br>I think Dave hit it right on the head. Bush was so damn bad I don't think there was anyone at all that was going to win this race as a Republican. Maybe that's why McCain seemed so desperate. Too bad his time came in the wake of such a Republican disaster.<br><br>And McCain's concession speech was such a good start for an Obama administration. How classy. Where was this guy on the campaign trail? Wow. But it truly gave a sense of optimism and relief, and I have to believe that Obama was extremely grateful for McCain's grace at that moment.<br><br>Joann<br><br><br><br><br><br>
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>McCain is a decent man and a true American hero. What he endured for five years in Vietnam I can't even imagine.<br><br>But he ran a ghastly campaign, always looked edgy and ill at ease, and had the bad luck of being in the same party as George Bush.<br><br>But most significantly his choice of a running mate was an abomination. I feel bad for Sarah Palin, as she took a lot of abuse the past few months. But McCain showed terrible judgment by choosing her, and he sunk quickly after that.<br><br>Obama's presidency will be far from perfect, and not everyone will like his policies. But I suggest for the next twenty-four hours to please recognize that last night we reached a landmark moment in American history. Then tomorrow we can all go back to partisan fighting.
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br>Barry-<br><br>I'm not trying to be a smart ***, but why should it be seen as a landmark in American history. I guess thats what bothers me. I'm 32 years old...I'm not from the old generation and haven't been witness to some of the things that even you at your age would have seen in the 50's, 60's. (not that your old <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif"> ) But what bothers me is I really don't know to this day what Obama is all about. I haven't seen any concrete platform he stands on...he has flip-flopped on many issues (as I guess many politicians do). I agree Sarah Palin was not a good choice for VP, she lacks experience, but so does Obama. The thing he was better at....is talking. Talking gets you so far. It would have been refreshing if Obama's short track record in the Senate would have been more on the lines of thinking for himself instead of voting with his party on every issue. We honestly should be past the stage of having to say how wonderful it is an African-American man is President. Being 32 I don't see the big issue there, I really don't. From my perspective he ran a blanket campaign and it was McCain's fault for not pushing issues moreso in the debates than he did. There were many subjects had McCain just pushed issues that Obama would have looked a little foolish trying to get out of. <br><br>This campaign shouldn't have had anything to do with race. It really shouldn't. Every interview I've seen on TV, with blacks and whites are how wonderful it is to have this man in office. I just hope all those people that voted for him saw something more in the glass half full than what I did other than voting for him based on color and what a "landmark in American history" this would be. <br><br>
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Posted By: <b>D. C. Markel</b><p>I never thought this day would happen. I won't have to work on puttin' gas in my car. I won't have to work at payin' my mortgage. You know. If I help him, he's gonna help me.<br><br>(edited for spelling)
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>Dan-<br><br>I know your kind of being a smart-alec there...but what is truly sad is for those that don't know that was really said by one voter. She honestly thinks Obama will be the end all to all and she won't have to worry about paying for gas or her mortgage. It's really dissapointing just how uneducated MANY of the voters are/were.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dave- I understand you do not support Obama's policies, and that's fine. And I wish I could say we should all be color blind and not care what color skin our president has.<br><br>But it's just not the case. This country has a terrible history when it comes to race relations. I am old enough to remember the 1960's and the racial tensions, the rioting, the burning of cities, and it was frightening. So for me this is a very special moment in our history. And I realize not everybody may agree.<br>
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>Barry-<br><br>Your right everyone can't agree. My point being as long as you back the man for his track record and feel his direction was truly laid out for everyone to see then I have no problem at all if thats the reason folks voted for him. <br><br>I'm not from Nova Scotia...so he is going to be my president and if he does bomb than I'll have a chance in four more years to vote for someone else. That's the wonderful thing about this country.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Even Obama's supporters know it won't be easy, and I can assure you he will make mistakes. And I plan to be around to see how it all unfolds.
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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>You know, iv'e read through this post and listened to all views carefully. To me though the most accurate statement so far has come from Dave. He hit it right on the head when he stated: <br><br>>>>> " It's really disappointing just how uneducated MANY of the voters are/were."<br><br>For me this stuck out like a soar thumb more so than iv'e ever witnessed in the past. <br>To see so many voters involved in this race was truly great, but they weren't educated <br>on the issues as they should have been. They were simply followers which is not what an <br>election is supposed to represent. <br><br>Tony A.<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>that that $100K we're down to on raising taxes now will be pushed lower. Hopefully the mistakes he makes on the job while trying to learn won't be as big as some Bush made. I have my doubts though. While he's a great speaker, hopefully there's some substance there too. 76 days from now, we'll all find out. There won't be any 'present' votes to do from the oval office. We'd all better hope he's successful. <br><br><br><br>Tony.......I agree........I love the people interviewed about Obama's running mate Palin who said that she'd do a great job. We have a whole lot of new voters this time. Unfortunately, a whole lot of them have no idea what's going on. But I'm not sure that that's not unlike every election.<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>Hi Tom -<br>I agree, you see many uneducated voters every election, but there seemed to be so many more young<br>voters this time around that didn't have a clue on the issues. I don't think many of them ever read<br>a paper or even watch the news. <br><br>Tony A.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Dave, Tom, et al, <br><br>You guys have either been drinking the red Kool-aid or watching too much FOX News. Obama has NEVER changed the levels of his tax plan. He has always said taxes will go up (from 36% to 39%, back to what they were under Reagan) on family incomes over $250,000 (individuals over $200,000). He has always said that taxes will go down for families under $200,000. Incomes between the two levels would stay about the same. <br><br>Last week, at one campaign stop, Biden talked about the tax relief a family making $150,000 would get. That number was an example. It was chosen because it was deemed to be a representative number for that days crowd (I think he was in Northern Virginia at the time, but I could be mistaken.) <br><br>The McCain campaign jumped all over that and called it a "change." It wasn't. It was an example. <br><br><br>That said, I agree with Tom that the number may have to change to straighten out the fiscal mess our country is in. The problem is that we (the USA) have already spent the money (our money, our kids money, and our grandkids money.) We all sat by far too quietly and let spending go unchecked for the last 8 years. Someday, you have to pay the piper. <br><br>But right now, the proposal is that if you make $300,000 a year (top 3-4% nationwide) you would pay an extra 3% on the income over $250,000. I don't think that $1500 will break any of those earners.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I didn't vote Obama but I am ok with the choice made. Americans made it and we will move forward. Bush has not done a good job as president though I still think his heart is in the right place. This was a perfect storm for Obama to win. If McCain would have won it would have taken a miracle. There was just too much stacked against him, including his VP nominee. What I found very telling was this fact.<br><br>Blacks that voted for Obama - 40%<br>Blacks that voted for McCain- 01%<br><br>My guess is that this statistic will be overlooked. <br><br>Now, if I can come up with a way to make so little I don't pay any tax then I can actually get a refund and free healthcare. I need to contempelate that... I do hope Obama does good and we definitely are in need of change...
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Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>Leon - if you wish to make so little that you won't pay taxes,, how would you buy your baseball cards?? <img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif"><img src="/images/happy.gif" alt="happy.gif">.<br>==<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br>Unknown author <br>--<br>We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br>No retreat baby, no surrender.<br>The Boss
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I will buy them with the tax refund check and money I save on health care...Haven't you seen all of the hoopalah? I do think Obama is a good guy but doesn't understand that when he taxes those that have worked hard to make a good living, and many are employers, then they won't be supplying as many jobs for the people he is trying to help.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>Come on, Leon. That extra 3% will, for most who are hit by it, work out to be less than you spend on cards each year.<br><br><br><br>That's hardly going to be the difference between expanding, or not expanding, their businesses.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's the theory that bothers me. If you won't help yourself don't worry...the government will. Socialism here we come....It's really a fundamental difference and no matter what you and I debate you will believe the way you do and I will believe the way I do. <br><br>As I have said....I think Obama is a good, inexperienced, politician. He is a very good orator. One other thing too; I have never heard him say "I made a mistake". That is kind of bothersome. Hey, he can't do much worse than we have had...so we have that going for us!!
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>So...<br><br>A 36% tax bracket is Socialism.<br><br>But a 33% tax bracket is good, old-fashioned, American democracy.
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>What? Not enough cowbell in here yet?<br><br><object width="425" height="350" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lo6HONeuT-M"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lo6HONeuT-M"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><!--[if IE]><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lo6HONeuT-M"type="application/x-shockwave-flash"wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /><![endif]--></object>
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br>David-<br><br>It's one thing for my tax money to go to education, social security, national defense, road improvements, etc. It's the "social services" side of it I don't think needs to be beefed up more. With the taxes we pay now why is that not enough for food stamps and public housing? <br><br>I guess its ok with you. For me I was taught to stand on my own two feet. When I go into downtown Atlanta to see a ballgame and I see plenty of the locals on the side of the street with a fifth of liquor I have to shake my head. At some point adults should have to take care of themselves...they shouldn't need even more of my money that I would rather put in something so it can mature and hand down to my own children. Yes, I'm a jerk I guess. I'd rather hand my money down to my own children. Even that extra 3%. Most, not all of the folks needing federal assitance could better themselves. They choose not to, and as long as the government wants to play mommy/daddy they won't have to.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p>And you know for a fact that that extra 3% is going into food stamps?<br><br>Perhaps it will pay down the debt incurred by fighting a war with borrowed money.<br><br>Or maybe it will go towards the $750B bailout that now seems to be providing nice Christmas bonuses for those poor souls who will be hit by the tax increase.
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p><br><br>No, I don't know for a fact. I'm taking Obama at his word when he says he wants to hit with tax increases people above such and such and redistribute it to the underprivilaged to help "boost" the economy.
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Posted By: <b>gotwins</b><p>Leon, Obama won pretty much every major demographic across the board--including white men with a college education or higher. He won every educational level, all age groups except 65 and older, and by some exit polls, won even those who make $200K or more. He would have won even if he only garnered the same % of blacks that Kerry received in 2004.<br><br>Tom, your taxes will go up, that is true. Obama understands that the fragility of the economy right now won't allow for much in the way of immediate tax increases, and he will raise taxes only for those making $250K or more. Mark my words, that's where the line will be drawn in 2009. At the end of 2010--halfway through Obama's term, the Bush tax cuts will expire and will not be renewed. Taxes will then return to what they were under Clinton--Obama has said this repeatedly. Although he won't technically be raising taxes, Obama will no doubt get the blame for them going up because of his refusal to extend the cuts. He has been clear on these points. <br><br>McCain, by contrast, kept telling people what they wanted to hear, never mind the folly of his words. He promised to get us back on track by eliminating pork--well, if every single earmark was pork that would amount to $18B cut, while $700B was just handed out for the bailout, and another $125B every year goes to Iraq. That's like trying to balance your family budget and avoid foreclosure by discontinuing your subscription to the daily newspaper. Speaking of the budget, he promised to have it balanced by the end of his first term, a statement that is either blatantly dishonest or Palinesquely naive. No new taxes but expect a trillion dollar deficit to be cured in four years through his "stimulus" ideas, ideas keenly similar to those of the current President. In the words of Roger Daltrey: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Americans saw that as tripe.<br><br>Barry, I agree with you on all points regarding McCain's campaign. He really had two major decisions that would reflect on his temperment and judgment--VP and campaign manager--and he chose Sarah Palin and the Karl Rove school. They doomed him, but he has no one to blame but himself.<br><br>Tough times ahead, but I really like our chances more now than I did yesterday at this time.
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Dan, <br><br>I don't think Richard Dwyer was scared by cowbells, Beach Boys or Grand Funk Railroad. I think it was this that frightens him to death.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k</a><br><br><br><br>(Also Dan, you've got to teach me how to insert videos!)
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Posted By: <b>D. C. Markel</b><p>********************************************* ************************************<br>You know, iv'e read through this post and listened to all views carefully. To me though the most accurate statement so far has come from Dave. He hit it right on the head when he stated:<br><br>>>>> " It's really disappointing just how uneducated MANY of the voters are/were."<br><br>For me this stuck out like a soar thumb more so than iv'e ever witnessed in the past.<br>To see so many voters involved in this race was truly great, but they weren't educated<br>on the issues as they should have been. They were simply followers which is not what an<br>election is supposed to represent.<br><br>Tony A. <br><br>****************************************** ******************************************<br><br> How true and I'll only add that the mainstream media (three major TV networks, CNN, MSNBC and major newspapers) shoulders most of the blame by orchestrating obscurantism with a vengeance in regards to shielding some of Obama's most radical positions and political connections that should have terrified any educated person who embraces our Constitution, human rights, free enterprise and issues pertaining to Israel. The parallels between the failed Soviet Union and their puppet press, Pravda, and the Democratic party with the mainstream media are astounding.<br><br>Sadly, the rank and file voter ignored the above mentioned issues and sold out for his $1200 a year tax cut while their retirement funds will plunge a hundredfold since major corporations will be the primary victims on his economic plan, thus causing stock prices to drop even more and ultimately forcing corporations to move out of the country like Halliburton did and thereby sucking billions of dollars out of our economy. I'm done venting.
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Posted By: <b>David Atkatz</b><p><< I'm taking Obama at his word when he says he wants to hit with tax increases people above such and such and redistribute it to the underprivilaged to help "boost" the economy.>><br><br>And he said this... when?
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Posted By: <b>packs</b><p>Extremely historic day. For a long time America has preached the mantra that you can be whatever you want to be in this country through hard work and perseverance. However, until now every African-American child born who said they wanted to be President when they grew up was looked at with skepticism. Not anymore.
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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I didn't expect you to have a good answer for this:<br><br>Blacks that voted for Obama - 40% <br>Blacks that voted for McCain- 01% <br><br><br>It's called the taboo word (prejudiced).....<br><br><br><br><br>Read what Dave F said above as he echos my sentiments. Regardless, now it's time to start talking about how it's not Obama's fault that he got left with a mess and can't fix it.....I see it coming now...mark my words. <br><br>I think we all agree we do need a change so we shall see....I am hoping for the best.
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Posted By: <b>jdrum</b><p>The thing is no one knows what to expect because he has no body of work. I for one plan to be very open-minded, he is my President. And for those who say it can't be any worse, well it certainly can. It can certainly be a whole lot better as well. Let the man govern and then make the call.<br><br>If things get too bad, I can go back to clinging to my guns and religion. I've always got that to fall back on. The Republicans have NO ONE to blame but themselves. Not the media, not the young uninformed voters. They need to all stand in front of the mirror today and say, "Who are we?"
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I'll stay away from commenting on the last post.......<br><br>We have what we have. Pretty much the way it was with Bush. That's why we have Obama now and he has 4 years and if he mucks it up, we'll have someone else after that. Hopefully, he's not sitting now figuring out how to get re-elected. I think that too many of our politicians do that on their first day of office instead of trying to figure out how to fix things. <br><br>Everyone can surmise what MIGHT happen with taxes but until it happens no one really knows. So.....we wait. Regardless, they will go up in many cases for all Americans. Many states are considering raising sales taxes to make up for lost revenues and hunting for other revenue streams. Our state is considering raising from 6 to either 7 or 8 percent. That hits everyone and proportionally the lower class more than the upper class obviously.<br><br>It would be good to see someone in government really STOP the spending a little and figure out a way to more effectively spend our money. Ditch Iraq and pull that money back home. I don't know. It seems some are hellbent on increasing revenues through taxes but I still think we pay too much to bloated, inefficient politicans who waste about 40% of it on crap. <br><br>We could have saved about $2 billion on this overblown election that we just witnessed. $1 billon on the presidential election alone. Now THAT's crazy............<br><br>
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