Originally Posted by skelly423 (Post 2427994)

Second time he has announced his departure in two days. I’ll set the over/under at Monday for his next post

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428222)

Like Bogart, you were misinformed.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2428410)

I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.



Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that.



And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2428410)

I am sure PSA has banned him from submitting and there is a good chance they might have deactivated more of his submissions. I am not a fan of deactivating submissions or cards unless PSA is in possession of those cards who certs they are deactivating.

Most people do not check cert numbers on PSA's site prior to buying a PSA graded card so they have no idea they are buying something that PSA no longer recognizes as a legit card but they have put out legit money. The burden is then on the buyer to track down the person they bought it from to get a refund. GL with that.

And let's not think PSA deactivated those certs to keep the market clean and protect buyers. And if they did ban Kurt that too was not done to protect buyers. They do these things to anyone who embarrasses them.

Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 2428428)

This certainly appears to have already been an embarrassing situation for PSA. It could potentially get far worse, too. Imagine if a significant number (hundreds, thousands, maybe more) of PSA graded cards begin to present signs of exposure to chemicals.

I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.

Originally Posted by Neal (Post 2428423)

Agreed.

Did they decertify the Wemby 1/1? That thing is forever tainted, at least for the next few days ... after that, stuff is usually forgotten

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Originally Posted by SyrNy1960 (Post 2428556)

In the 70's, when collecting was so much simpler, we did have a guy who was known for pressing out wrinkles on cards, and he sold them at our local card shows. If someone was interested in a card that he pressed the wrinkles out, he always made buyers aware (we actually all knew him as the winkle guy), and he never charged more money than what the card would have been worth with wrinkles.

I didn't really think much of that being a bad thing back then. I'm sure more things were being done to cards back then, but never really thought much of it.

Today, this is crazy what's being done. So many cards being soaked, trimmed, re-colored, pressed out, etc., so I can see why the true card collectors are angry over it. Sad.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428561)

For me, the issue isn't what's being done. It's the deception.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2428567)

It is done for profit, some by our regular scumbags who endorse defrauding people and advocate lying by omission or directly lying when selling.

Originally Posted by lorewalker (Post 2428585)

but do these scumbags you refer to rise to the level of being "shady, deceptive, and disingenuous"?

Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 2428428)

This certainly appears to have already been an embarrassing situation for PSA. It could potentially get far worse, too. Imagine if a significant number (hundreds, thousands, maybe more) of PSA graded cards begin to present signs of exposure to chemicals.

I can imagine something similar to the "greening" issue with '90s Finest/Chrome cards.

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B (Post 2428606)

One can only imagine that if that does happen, the same reason will be given as what is said for newer baseballs with graded gem mint 10 signatures whose autographs fade over the years. "It looked different when we saw it.". Exactly the same. Easy does it. Two completely different situations, both "rationalized" using the same excuse.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428561)

For me, the issue isn't what's being done. It's the deception.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428927)

Yep. The unholy alliance of card doctors, TPGs and AHs. Perfect storm.

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B (Post 2428931)

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B (Post 2428931)

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Originally Posted by 4815162342 (Post 2428932)

I don’t follow. Are you saying raw cards are somehow less susceptible to card doctoring fraud? And how would cracking out cards alleviate this?

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B (Post 2428931)

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2428934)

I believe he is referring to those that complain about grading but collect mainly high grade PSA cards. If so I also find it hilarious. If not it is far from the first time I am wrong.:)

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2428942)

Card altering is far from limited to high grade cards so not sure what the anonymous guy was referring to. Also fail to see any hypocrisy by those who have posted here being against card altering. To boot there are plenty of ungraded cards out there for sale that are altered. One just has to look on eBay.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428945)

I have no issue with it if that's what people want to do, but I have never understood why removing a card from a slab is some sort of virtuous act.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker (Post 2428946)

First, I am not sure if the comment he made was directed at people who have posted here being against card altering or those who have written they are against the failure of the seller to disclose the efforts made to clean up a card upon offering the card for sale.

But I agree, I am not sure how one is not a hypocrite if they buy a graded card and break it out but they are if they don't break it out. In both cases that buyer is supporting grading. And it implies or suggests that buying raw somehow makes you immune from buying an altered card...at the end of the day I guess you cannot be labeled a hypocrite so there is that. :D

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2428947)

I guess if you just focus on cracking out cards it does seem weird.

I more believe it to be people that constantly complain about PSAs horrible grading but collect PSA graded cards, those that complain about the AHs but buy most of their cards there, switch out AH with eBay, or those that complain about shill bidding but post about buying/consigning with known shillers. I see it as more like those examples.

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2427659)

There's something completely unlikable about a guy who just shamelessly lies over and over and over. Every single post (and that's not really an exaggeration) is either a humorously over-the-top brag, oft granting himself inhuman powers, or defending defrauding people and ripping them off. When he does have a fair point, he immediately ruins it by following up with a lie, fraud, or a stupid brag that should be embarrassing. It's entertaining, but it's pretty sad after awhile.


Let's see your proof, Snowman, for your posted claim that Lorewalker is lying about his identity.

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2428947)

I guess if you just focus on cracking out cards it does seem weird.

I more believe it to be people that constantly complain about PSAs horrible grading but collect PSA graded cards, those that complain about the AHs but buy most of their cards there, switch out AH with eBay, or those that complain about shill bidding but post about buying/consigning with known shillers. I see it as more like those examples.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428948)

So unless I only buy raw cards on the BST, or from anonymous locals at shows, I can't be pure?

Originally Posted by Casey2296 (Post 2428961)

This is why I only collect pre-war cards in the 1-5 range, give me caramel and tobacco stains, bumped corners, and wide borders any day of the week. Anything over a 6 is suspect to me.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2428948)

So unless I only buy raw cards on the BST, or from anonymous locals at shows, I can't be pure?

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt (Post 2428989)

Looking through Blowout's listing of altered cards there were plenty of 1's & 2's
that were turned into 3's & 4's.
I seemed to remember a bunch of Leaf's Jackie, Musial & Joe D. cards that were suspect, & that resulted in big money upgrades
You have to have balls to work on a T206 Wagner, not so much on a lower valued card like a Johnny Mize

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt (Post 2428989)

Looking through Blowout's listing of altered cards there were plenty of 1's & 2's

that were turned into 3's & 4's.

I seemed to remember a bunch of Leaf's Jackie, Musial & Joe D. cards that were suspect, & that resulted in big money upgrades

You have to have balls to work on a T206 Wagner, not so much on a lower valued card like a Johnny Mize

Originally Posted by Neal (Post 2429026)

Where can one find this list? Thx

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Originally Posted by Johnny630 (Post 2429033)

Did anyone else hear that GM was at the last Philly Show walking around?

Originally Posted by Keith H. Thompson (Post 2428997)

I feel that on most of the issues discussed in this thread, the path to the high moral ground has a lot of slippery slopes -- and a lot of competition.

Originally Posted by Neal (Post 2429026)

Where can one find this list? Thx

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Originally Posted by parkplace33 (Post 2429083)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...?noredirect=on

I wonder if they are still investigating.... 5 years later :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B (Post 2428931)

There's also a healthy dose of hypocrisy that abounds (unless everyone here collects and trades exclusively in raw cards). Hmm, I'm not hearing the sound of a single slab bening cracked. Surprise, surprise.

Originally Posted by parkplace33 (Post 2429083)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...?noredirect=on

I wonder if they are still investigating.... 5 years later :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by 4815162342 (Post 2429213)

“EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!”

Skip ahead to 38:38 for the card cleaning question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bfuICkhi4s

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2429255)