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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   PWCC PSA2 T3 Cobb (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=270912)

CobbSpikedMe 07-07-2019 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1896736)
He knew about the disclosure and even posted it here in this thread word for word.
I know that. But I didn't think he was in on the decision to bury it in the description like Brent did. I never said he didn't know about the disclosure.

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MULLINS5 (Post 1896736)
He knew about the disclosure and even posted it here in this thread word for word.
Which disclosure opined that the card was appropriately graded a 2. So placement was only one serious problem.

I can't believe in this atmosphere Brent would do that.

jfkheat 07-07-2019 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1896737)
But I didn't think he was in on the decision to bury it in the description like Brent did.
Anytime something is added to the description on an eBay auction that has bids whatever is added is automatically added to the very bottom of the listing. I am in no way defending Brent, just saying that he had no choice as to where the "disclosure" was added.

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat (Post 1896742)
Anytime something is added to the description on an eBay auction that has bids whatever is added is automatically added to the very bottom of the listing. I am in no way defending Brent, just saying that he had no choice as to where the "disclosure" was added.
I think James is right about that, it's an addendum not a change, but all the more reason he should not have even considered that option. A highly misleading additional disclosure that virtually nobody will see. On an altered card in a numerical holder. In this atmosphere.

CobbSpikedMe 07-07-2019 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkheat (Post 1896742)
Anytime something is added to the description on an eBay auction that has bids whatever is added is automatically added to the very bottom of the listing. I am in no way defending Brent, just saying that he had no choice as to where the "disclosure" was added.
I did not know that. Thanks for clarifying.

Rhotchkiss 07-07-2019 07:17 PM
Peter, I can’t agree with you more. The fact that in this atmosphere, PWCC continues to act so brazenly unethical is mind blowing. One would think they would be cautious. Instead, they are reckless and/or sociopathic. It’s remarkable. Perhaps it’s a strategy: Keep doing what you were always doing because changing could indicate past guilt/culpability?

Peter_Spaeth 07-07-2019 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1896746)
Peter, I can’t agree with you more. The fact that in this atmosphere, PWCC continues to act so brazenly unethical is mind blowing. One would think they would be cautious. Instead, they are reckless and/or sociopathic. It’s remarkable. Perhaps it’s a strategy: Keep doing what you were always doing because changing could indicate past guilt/culpability?
I think it's just who he is, and how he does things, at this point.

What I would find interesting is the mindset of the other employees at PWCC.

Fuddjcal 07-08-2019 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1896734)
Also, Jesse, for what's it worth, I for one didn't think you were the one who decided to bury the disclosure in the bottom of the description where nobody would see it. I could be wrong, but I figured Brent talked you into leaving the listing up and that he told you he would take care of it and all would be good. Then when you found out how he handled it you didn't agree with his method and you decided to remove the listing altogether. A class A move. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought anyway.
nice spoon feed...Fact is, Mr pokerPlayer has been standing up for the biggest fraudster this hobby has ever seen and still is giving Brent Mastro more fake cards to sell for him. He HAS ZERO integrity. That's what I thought anyway.

Tabe 07-08-2019 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuddjcal (Post 1896845)
nice spoon feed...Fact is, Mr pokerPlayer has been standing up for the biggest fraudster this hobby has ever seen and still is giving Brent Mastro more fake cards to sell for him. He HAS ZERO integrity. That's what I though anyway.
I'm not sure I would go this far but I would definitely say that first hyping up the card without revealing his ownership, followed by the not-really-honest disclaimer, are not a good look.

Peter_Spaeth 07-08-2019 04:10 PM
Two more cards were taken down today by Brent, see the cert list thread.

wondo 07-08-2019 04:18 PM
Looks like some are giving sellers of “bad” stuff a pass by using the greater villain defense - unless they have PWCC in their name. I understand there is a return term, but is there a statue of limitations? what stops a TPG from invoking it? Technology has caught up they can claim. What about the expert sellers who state the Cobb is an obvious hack job? Did this slide by the novice seller and buyer? Apparently somebody turned a convenient blind eye.

jad22 07-08-2019 05:39 PM
Has the previous seller of this card chimed in?

bnorth 07-08-2019 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jad22 (Post 1896991)
Has the previous seller of this card chimed in?
As poster earlier buy Jesse, Dan McKee declined on buying it back.

kateighty 07-08-2019 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudey77 (Post 1896469)
Is there a therapist in the house who could help the obsessive behavior :D
My god, take a step back and don’t forget to breath, kiss your wives, hug your kids and enjoy the fact you have the income to support such a hobby.
Ahemmmmm. Some of us have husbands and boyfriends here.

bnorth 07-08-2019 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kateighty (Post 1897014)
Ahemmmmm. Some of us have husbands and boyfriends here.
Do they know about each other.:eek::D

Republicaninmass 07-08-2019 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1896992)
As poster earlier buy Jesse, Dan McKee declined on buying it back.
Has he chimed in yet, anyone know where Dan may have got it?

kateighty 07-08-2019 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1896642)
To those who apparently still have a problem with the way this was handled I will say this. I found out Friday that a card I legitimately purchased was altered and bumped from an A to a 2 holder. I notified the AH immediately, and communicated back and forth via email. An agreement was reached to disclose the history and keep the auction live.

It became clear soon after that the disclosure was insufficient, and the auction was almost immediately pulled once I became aware. This was about 24 hours after the first mention on blowout. This was all going on while I was in the office and also focused on work there. I did my best to communicate in real time what was going on.

I have heard back from the person I purchased the card from. He declined to buy it back for what I paid. It will go to PSA next for a review.
Thanks Jesse for sharing and communicating everything. Given that this is a thread about a specific card I think your reply should be starred and kept above at the top of this thread. People may agree or disagree but regardless what you have to say shouldn't be lost in the mix of posts.

kateighty 07-08-2019 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1897017)
Do they know about each other.:eek::D
HAHA! Oooops. Didn't mean both at the same time (at least in my case!) You know what I meant. Hopefully that lightened things up a bit!

Peter_Spaeth 07-08-2019 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1897019)
Has he chimed in yet, anyone know where Dan may have got it?
He has not.

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2019 05:21 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#762b46ec36c7

ullmandds 07-10-2019 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1897479)
gotta love the SPIN!!!!!!

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2019 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1897481)
gotta love the SPIN!!!!!!
I thought the story overall was a step in the right direction for the author.

Rhotchkiss 07-10-2019 06:38 AM
I agree Peter. Very decent article - the article used actual names, stated actual facts, good and bad, and promoted no agenda other than better grading standards. Just report the facts, the facts tell the obvious story

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2019 06:40 AM
He missed that McKee in fact refused to refund; he may have submitted it prior to that being reported by Jesse.

Leon 07-10-2019 06:44 AM
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1897484)
I thought the story overall was a step in the right direction for the author.

ullmandds 07-10-2019 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1897484)
I thought the story overall was a step in the right direction for the author.
title was/is deceptive

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2019 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1897505)
title was/is deceptive
But at least he is now acknowledging the issues and not shying away from naming PWCC.

ullmandds 07-10-2019 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1897508)
But at least he is now acknowledging the issues and not shying away from naming PWCC.
agreed

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-10-2019 10:23 AM
Two days ago, an eager collector asked advice about a highly desirable 1911 T3 Turkey Red Ty Cobb card for sale in an eBay auction raucous sports card chat room that prides itself on ferreting out fraudsters, Net54,

Is this English? This is different than me teasing someone about a typo this guy is supposed to be a writer.

Then he trots out the name "Jesse" with no antecedent (yeah WE know who that is but the average reader doesn't)

He did not feel comfortable requesting a refund from the seller since it had been two year

Still, the subject matter is an improvement over unbridled praise for crooks...

perezfan 07-10-2019 01:03 PM
Better than before...

But no mention of the fact that Brent originally wanted to insert an addendum at the bottom of the description, as his initial solution. People who already had their snipes set (based purely on Brent’s original description) never would’ve seen the buried addendum.

The card was pulled as a last resort. Would’ve been nice to include a few of those relevant details. And to label net54 as a “raucous sports card chat room” is purely his opinion, and not fact. That wording is quite inappropriate. “Truth-seeking” would have been far more descriptive than “raucous”. Why even include that verbiage, unless his piece is labeled as a commentary?

Still a slightly better article than those which preceded it.

Aquarian Sports Cards 07-10-2019 02:42 PM
Remember he is a "contributor" not a staff writer. His stuff is not vetted (or edited) as an actual Forbes piece would be. It's a weird line that most people aren't aware of.

Peter_Spaeth 07-10-2019 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1897626)
Better than before...

But no mention of the fact that Brent originally wanted to insert an addendum at the bottom of the description, as his initial solution. People who already had their snipes set (based purely on Brent’s original description) never would’ve seen the buried addendum.

The card was pulled as a last resort. Would’ve been nice to include a few of those relevant details. And to label net54 as a “raucous sports card chat room” is purely his opinion, and not fact. That wording is quite inappropriate. “Truth-seeking” would have been far more descriptive than “raucous”. Why even include that verbiage, unless his piece is labeled as a commentary?

Still a slightly better article than those which preceded it.
Nobody would have seen that buried addendum. Nobody. And the addendum itself was pure fraud -- the "2" grade was appropriate. Please, Brent.

MULLINS5 07-12-2019 05:57 AM
1 Attachment(s)
I made the news.

Goudey77 07-12-2019 06:26 AM
Sorry to take this off track but I didn’t want to create another thread.
Anyone get the Probstein newsletters via email? I just noticed today that there is a link to current PWCC auction listings right below Probsteins listings. Did I miss something? Is there some partnership going on here? I found it strange.

bnorth 07-12-2019 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goudey77 (Post 1898132)
Sorry to take this off track but I didn’t want to create another thread.
Anyone get the Probstein newsletters via email? I just noticed today that there is a link to current PWCC auction listings right below Probsteins listings. Did I miss something? Is there some partnership going on here? I found it strange.
This has been going on for a while. I have avoided both like the plague for years so no idea what kind of partnership they may have.

Republicaninmass 07-12-2019 06:34 AM
Anyone reach out to Greg Bussineau?

Johnny630 07-12-2019 06:38 AM
Hush hush...leadership at these companies ...pwcc, probstein, Major PSA sellers are being told to be quiet........this will pass....we are all benefiting and need this gravy train to continue.....the sucker collectors and registry fiends are addicted we will get through this just keep things rolling.......

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1898134)
Anyone reach out to Greg Bussineau?
I know someone who did, and did not get a response.

Republicaninmass 07-12-2019 07:44 AM
Anyone reach out to Dan McKee?

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1898154)
Anyone reach out to Dan McKee?
He obviously is aware of the issue because he refused to take the card back from Jesse.

Republicaninmass 07-12-2019 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1898156)
He obviously is aware of the issue because he refused to take the card back from Jesse.
Ah, I just him post about some "fraud" in the marketplace. Wonder where he got the Cobb from?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1898157)
Ah, I just him post about some "fraud" in the marketplace. Wonder where he got the Cobb from?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I am glad he did, I was in danger of pulling the trigger on a Leaf Jackie for under $100 from a zero feedback seller based in China.

Republicaninmass 07-12-2019 08:04 AM
:confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1898159)
I am glad he did, I was in danger of pulling the trigger on a Leaf Jackie for under $100 from a zero feedback seller based in China.
Glad to have someone pointing out these things

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 08:11 AM
Personally, I would find it more useful to avoiding fraud if I knew who sold Dan the Cobb. But that's just me.

bnorth 07-12-2019 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1898154)
Anyone reach out to Dan McKee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1898156)
He obviously is aware of the issue because he refused to take the card back from Jesse.
How about what slab/grade was the card when Dan McKee bought it. That seems more interesting than who he bough it from to start.

pokerplyr80 07-12-2019 08:23 AM
I got the card back from PWCC on Wednesday and dropped it off yesterday at PSA. I encountered resistance at first from a customer service rep who seemed determined to discourage a review and that I should contact the seller. I finally got through to someone helpful and they should be reviewing the card shortly.

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1898167)
I got the card back from PWCC on Wednesday and dropped it off yesterday at PSA. I encountered resistance at first from a customer service rep who seemed determined to discourage a review and that I should contact the seller. I finally got through to someone helpful and they should be reviewing the card shortly.
I assume you presented them with the "before" pics?

pokerplyr80 07-12-2019 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1898168)
I assume you presented them with the "before" pics?
That's correct. I printed a color side by side shot posted on blowout and included the entire Forbes article despite the misquote.

Edit: After seeing this post the author of the article reached out. It sounds like an honest mistake, and he didn't see the post I made about my return request being denied. The article has already been updated

Peter_Spaeth 07-12-2019 08:46 AM
Let's hope they make good on the guarantee for you, and then go after the submitter.

byrone 07-12-2019 08:47 AM
Is it not time to change the reference from "Card doctor" to "Card butcher"?

tothrk 07-12-2019 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1898173)
Let's hope they make good on the guarantee for you, and then go after the submitter.
I would love to know the exact sequence of submissions for this card. I’m certainly not defending any of these people but there’s always the slim chance that whoever submitted it and got the bump wasn’t the doctor.

Republicaninmass 07-12-2019 10:53 AM
extremely slim, since t3s must be submitted separately, and no others were noted in the sequential cert numbers

conor912 07-12-2019 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1898167)
I got the card back from PWCC on Wednesday and dropped it off yesterday at PSA. I encountered resistance at first from a customer service rep who seemed determined to discourage a review and that I should contact the seller. I finally got through to someone helpful and they should be reviewing the card shortly.
Are they shaking you down for another absurd T3 grading fee?

pokerplyr80 07-12-2019 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by conor912 (Post 1898286)
Are they shaking you down for another absurd T3 grading fee?
No, that's part of the reason I wanted to drop it off. No option for guarantee review on the submission form. They did not charge me the $200 review fee.

frankbmd 07-13-2019 08:37 AM
The Solution
 
PSA should make good on their guarantee and then confiscate the card, put it in a PSA 4 holder and submit it to PWCC. Problem solved. Win, win, win :eek::D

jad22 07-13-2019 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1898165)
How about what slab/grade was the card when Dan McKee bought it. That seems more interesting than who he bough it from to start.
Still nothing? No comment other than he refused to refund.

Peter_Spaeth 07-13-2019 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jad22 (Post 1898539)
Still nothing? No comment other than he refused to refund.
Dan is apparently too busy warning about zero feedback sellers from China to respond.


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