right you can fake money too and casino chips, however each card having a Cert number does mean something...cant be two of the same and both be real..... several ways to combat fraud...my idea of an owner registry is one way but im sure there are other ways as well..

When the federal government does away with paper money and coins I'll start to get concerned.

Not quite. As the ability to replicate a vintage card gets better, the ability to authenticate a vintage card gets better. Forensic cardboard analysis is coming.

Cardregistry's Reply to Robert Evans Thread on Fake Cards
 

As the owner of Cardregistry, I would like to take this opportunity to state that Mr. Robert Evans, the individual who posted this thread regarding “fake cards sold by Cardregistry” has very limited credibility on this issue. We sold him a 1967 Topps Mickey Mantle Card that we consigned for a consignor which turned out to be fraudulent.

Upon being informed by Mr. Evans that he sent the card to PSA to confirm its authenticity, we requested that he give us a little time to investigate the matter, and we would get back to him shortly. We were kind enough to provide him with our private number, and he continuously harassed us to receive a refund for approximately three days even before a claim was escalated to Paypal, and we have evidence to support this statement.

At the time he related this to us, we had not yet received any letter from him from PSA, and we weren’t going to take his word for it. Why would we? What if he was the person who tampered with the card? We clearly needed the letter in our possession, and we told him that he would receive a refund upon receipt of it and the Card. Rather than understanding the issue at hand, he posted this thread regarding Cardregistry. We needed to do more research and learn PayPal’s policies regarding an incident of this nature, and it wasn’t until after this conversation that we received the Notification Letter from PSA (Professional Sports Authenticators)

The letter stated, " the case, which is sonically sealed with a tamper-evident feature at our facility, has been broken along the edges of the case for the purpose of switching the card inside the holder. The perpetrator has attempted to reveal the holder back together, but the sonic weld is clearly violated," You can view the entire letter on this thread.

Bob Evans prematurely wrote this thread and stated facts that he knows very little about, such as the amount figure he claims has been sold as well as calling us "beautiful idiots."* The reason we requested the card be returned to us was to help aid in our investigation of this sale with PayPal and other parties accordingly. Cardregistry has been a retailer of Sports Cards for over 4 years now, and we have provided our clients with great quality and outstanding service, so to see this thread is very disturbing as well as unfortunate. The few people who purchased a card from this Consignor have been notified, and I assure you that all cards in our inventory are authentic, and we have a large quite impressive collection. In fact, we have received a letter from PSA’s Counsel that states we had “no direct involvement in the manipulation of the cards at issue or in intentionally or knowingly selling Fraudulent cards. Rather, it presently appears that Cardregistry was victimized by its consignor and others acting in concert with” the Consignor. It’s very unfortunate that Mr. Evans prematurely jumped to conclusions that could seriously hurt a business, and we will pursue every legal action for Defamation of Character and any damages incurred by the derogatory and false statements of any party. We apologize to all our clients for any inconvenience that this isolated incident which could have been solved privately may have caused, If anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out. CARDREGISTRY, Inc. welcomes any inquiries, or concerns in regards to this matter, or any of our business practices, and we look forward to continue to be a Top Rated Ebay seller with zero negative feedback as well as a reputable retailer of Authentic Sports Cards.

It seems clear and I think Bob would agree that you did not intentionally sell bad cards, but is it true that you sold them without having them in hand? More importantly, what can you tell us about your consignor?

cardregistry
 

Anthony,
Thank you for responding to this thread. Are you the same person with the ebay id cardregistry who made an offer on a card in my store last year? Apparently I didn't counter soon enough and received this message:

Dear bbcemporium,

hey big shot you want me to teach you how to counter?

- cardregistry

Upon receiving this message, I promptly denied the offer only to receive this:

Dear bbcemporium,

Wow you really are a big shot.
I wish I was as cool and tuff as you.

- cardregistry

I have to admit I was quite taken back by these messages, but given you are a reputable retailer of sportscards with great customer service, I'm assuming it is somebody else operating on Ebay with the id cardregistry?

+1 I'm just about done with the "I only consign cards so it's not my fault" b.s. stories. Your selling fraudulent cards; if you can't back-up what your selling, get into another line of business.

Either rat out the consignor on this board with name/number, or your part of the problem. Which is it?

interesting side notes before i address:

ebay handle: cardregistry. you neither sold me a "card", nor could i register it. just had to point that out.
n54 handle: cardjunkie. take off the "ie" and it's more than appropriate. junk is all you sold me.

addressing your post:

pure comedy!


first off: is your name Anthony Muia or is it William Ikhilov, but prefers Vadim?

you figure out which name you prefer and let us know.

but let's dive right in....


the card you sold me was fake, correct?

credibility issue solved.

give you more time once I had a psa letterhead telling you the card was a fake?

I did. I gave you 2 days to issue a refund. You did nothing.

gave me your private number?

AH-NO!

I got that from my paypal invoice. in fact I contacted your husband back in janurary about concerns.

his reply was "im hoping this is an isolated event and (listen to this one!) hoping for the best"

but get this, he still wired the guy the money after the initial eyebrow was raised.

more lies.

you have the letter and you still didn't issue a refund. in fact, I went thru paypal and amex to get my money back.

proof to back this up should you refute any further.

you are damn right I did. you sold $150K worth of fake sh!t. i have zero remorse and would do it again.

I even told you to notify everyone else you sold cards to and your husband stated "shut the f up, quit making me paranoid".

again, proof is in text messages and I will post should you decide to refute.


psa didn't send you that letter, I did. email to back this up should you decide to refute.

but again, where was the refund you promised once you had proof?

that's right, you didn't refund.

proof to post should you refute.

exactly.

the letter that is addressed to me, same letter in post 1 and the one I provided you.

premature? the thread led off w/ the letter.

in fact, I told your husband back in janurary that something wasn't right. didn't post a word about it.

as for beautiful idiots? 100%! your post is proving it, plus you guys consigned cards you didn't even have.


the card was returned to you on my fedex account w/ tracking number 775755486320 back on 3/1

(side note: I asked for your husbands name several times over for the fedex label. he repeatedly would not provide it. however, I was able to get it thru my own sleuth skills)

fact of the matter is, you guys are crap.

you were told of a potential problem in janurary
you did nothing about it.
turns out you never even had the cards to begin with.
you still sent the guy $150K after you were warned.
you were advised by me to tell your other clients
you did nothing of the sort. replied w/ "hoping for the best"
you were provided proof that the card was fake.
you were given 2 days to make it right.
you did not refund me.
you psycho dialed me from blocked numbers repeatedly.
you consigned cards, expensive fn cards, w/o them in hand.
you have the audacity to call me and ask me to remove the thread.*
(I said "certainly not")
you come on here and spit nothing but lies and fabrications.


and on top of all of this, you decide to threaten me w legal action?

"i wish a mofo WOULD be in my seat"


again, I have all the proof in the world. most of which is already provided.

should you wish to be embarrassed further, i can post all of your husbands texts...

i don't want to, but i will...

nowhere in this thread, did i say you were knowingly involved. remember: beautiful idiot, not scammer.

best part is that I knew early in on the scam you were involved in simply from boards like this. you weren't the first to fall for this. you're just currently the last. the second your husband stated he never had the cards, I knew instantly. I even sent him a text (and I apologize ahead of time, leon) telling him to "wake the f@ck up, you are in the midst of a 6 figure scam". he was too damn hardheaded to listen. but because I knew and already had my money credited, I wasn't mad at all. I was generally trying to help you guys out in the beginning, but you guys wouldn't listen and in fact became very argumentative, so....it actually turned into fun for me. watching you continually crash and burn like this. it's like telling a 40 year old man (not a toddler) to not touch that stove because it's hot. but boy did you guys touch it alright. you got burned. bad. all while being advised not to. again, I was only trying to help you guys from day one.

you have no one to blame but yourself. taking on consigned cards w/o having them in hand! seriously?



so yes, i did say you guys were beautiful idiots.

facts concur this statement, but thanks for proving it yourself.

here's some more advice and i suggest you take it this time:

read your husband's text messages dating back to janurary 12th. i would be more than happy to post them if he deleted them.

best of luck and here's to "hoping for the best" for your future endeavors!

sincerely,

Bob Evans

* i did post the consignors name that your husband gave me, however you called me and asked me to remove it as not to hinder an ongoing investigation and i promptly did so. not only that, another member (irv) quoted this and i even sent him a request asking him to delete it. posts #92, 93.

proof to post should you re...yada, yada, yada.

sorry. after re-reading the repeated lies here, I've decided to embarrass you a lil more.

i replied above to Anthony's wife as that's who's been pyscho dialing me.

"Anthony" is his name that he uses for his ebay account, bbcemporium. I am not convinced that is his real name, yet. But that certainly is his tone.

however, the tone of this post is certainly that of his wife's and is why i replied responding to her.

furthermore:


thank you for proving in your own words that i came to you first to do what was right 3 days* prior to filing my claim w/ paypal/amex. so, please...post your proof.

*actually i only gave them 2 days, but "harassed" is by far a stretch.

this most certainly was not an isolated incident. in fact i have the text where you told me they ALL were fake. everyone else here knows this scam too.

I even asked you to read the thread in it's entirety before you make a post. you'll see that several members already knew about the Mexican connection.

but sure, keep lying and say this one card outta the $150K you sold was an "isolated incident".

There are some smart fellows around here. Don't think they are buying that load of crap for a split second.



no proof needed. common sense should you refute. ha.

Stay on them
 

Excellent work Bob in making them accountable and looking out for everyone else. We appreciate your actions.

delete

Wow, cardregistry just got owned!

I still think 2 doubles and 2 homers should be celebrated more than a cycle

It amazes me how greedy people are. Why else would you consign cards for someone and never actually see the cards. The chances of it not being a scam are slim and none. Doing so is as silly as the post I quoted.

update and apology.

I completely misstated the $150K figure.

in reviewing the text messages dated feb 26th, it appears the figure was only $125K-$150K.

so technically it might only be $125K.

edit: so sue me. ; )

Psycho dialing? Qu'est-ce que c'est? :D

I agree 100%! I'm also amazed how sellers fail to take full responsibility for themselves. Look, if the card was bad or tampered with, and it wasn't the sellers (as it was being consigned sight unseen), seller still takes on full responsibility (as I have always said auction houses should do). Seller should immediately refund the buyers money, then the seller battles it out wit the owner of the card. Buyer shouldn't have to wait for seller to recover their money first. It also amazes me how defensive sellers get in situations like this, where they should be more sympathetic and understanding towards the buyer.

Agreed. But some of them are just plain stupid too. If I had to guess, I would say it was 50-50.

Re: Robert Evans
 

Anthony is the name that I created for this Forum, and It was created a few days ago. In your text to me this morning, you said, "lil less conversation, a lil more action please, " so thats exactly what I will do. You are an embarrassment.

So the name under your screen name if fake? If so what is your real name?

so it's definitely the wife here, as presumed.

and admittedly supplying false information.

digging yourself deeper.

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaim...8531/well1.jpg

edit: and listen, you're pissed. i get it. you got scammed and you cant take it out on the consignor because he's a ghost.

i'm not gonna go back and forth w/ you like a couple of 10 year olds on an internet forum.

everything i stated was completely factual. if i can assist in any manner w/ the investigation, please lemme know.

I can help a little. First of all this person will be banned immediately for violating the registration policy, ie.....no anonymity for registrations. When I called the 718 area code phone number they gave the female sounds young and said here name is Brenda (muffled) Ramos....or something like that. However, by giving a fake name it means it's likely they gave a fake number too. A lot of bad karma going on here....but this Cardjunkie75 is out of here....

Net54 has never been junkie-friendly.;)

looking back, i shoulda quoted the other elvis song: "suspicious minds" *



* written by mark james, though.


anyways, might i ask that they have the rest of the day before banishment, leon. your forum, your rules and happy w/ whatever you decide. but i have been texting w/ william and i think he wants to retract his post/reply as i explained to him it's doing him no favors and he'd get a ton more respect and credibility for owning up to the fact.

in the end and what I've said from the start, i do not think they were knowingly involved. was it a dumb move, yes. we've all made them.

i cant imagine what my wife would be doing or saying knowing a nice lil $125k nest egg is gone.

honesty is the best policy and until this incident, they did have flawless feedback. somehow after all the threats and such, i still feel bad for them.

just asking that you give them til say 5:00pm to change the name per the rules and possibly show a lil remorse and hopefully accept some responsibility vs pointing a finger.

if not, no worries. at least i tried.

obviously it's your call and respect whatever decision you go with...

-Bob

If they want to send me their real name and real phone number via email, and I verify it, I will be glad to reinstate them. Otherwise, pure anonymity will not be allowed. And I am not taking sides, from my perusing this it looks like they probably got scammed too. However, there is no reason, imo, to have to be anonymous. Maybe they don't know how to be up front about stuff and they can learn from this?

agreed.

rules is rules.

proper name is first and foremost.

i think that is only fair and thank you.

Guess that post backfired on him. :)

ok, screw'em.

given every opportunity and you just simply can't get an honest word outta either of them!

they keep begging me to remove the thread.

done, over it.

time for lunch.

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaim...1/IMG_1006.jpg

For the record, as mentioned above, I have never spoken to these anonymously registered people, any of them, whomever they are. Since we are here, here is my back and for with them upon registration. I have nothing to hide, I barely care. :) But in reading it (from bottom to top is the chronological way) it is sort of creepy thinking people are posing, and having a conversation, as someone they aren't. At least to me it is. Oh well, whatever...LOL

ps..one other thing, emails are not generally allowed to be posted on the board for several reasons. In this case an exception was made due to their fraudulent registration. It's "Judge Judy's" America on the board. (I hope... at least in terms of common sense)



From: cardjunkie75@yahoo.com [mailto:cardjunkie75@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 5, 2016 3:03 PM
To: Leon Luckey <leonl@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Posts on your Forum

Cardjunkie75
Anthony Muia
(718) xxx x003

Thank you so much for your help. I'm new to this Forum thing !

All the best

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 8:13 AM, Leon Luckey <leonl@flash.net> wrote:

Yes
If you send back this info it will be the same as from the other email

USER ID
First and last name
Day time ph# (may be called to verify but kept private otherwise)

Thanks
LL

From: cardjunkie75@yahoo.com [mailto:cardjunkie75@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 11:23 PM
To: Leon Luckey <leonl@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Posts on your Forum

So aside from the registration link you have to click on in the email you first receive, there is a second with some info you need. Correct?

Thanks a bunch !

Nicole and Anthony Muia

On Friday, March 4, 2016 10:17 PM, Leon Luckey <leonl@flash.net> wrote:

You have to register then send back some info from an email you will get
LL

From: cardjunkie75@yahoo.com [mailto:cardjunkie75@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 8:50 PM
To: leon@net54baseball.com
Subject: Re: Posts on your Forum

I had an inquiry about your Forum. I'm new to this, and I haven't been able to create a post.
Is there any way you can help me? Thank you so much

Nicole


.

This person seems like he/she has something to hide. A little over 2K in positive ebay feedback doesn't make me give him a pass on his possible involvement in a scam.

It seems like when your integrity is called into question and honest response would be the way to go. If you were really an innocent victim just admit what happened and move on. I certainly won't be buying from you after reading this without a better explanation and I am sure I'm not the only Net54 member who feels the same way.

I see cardregistry is away until March 31 on ebay. Hmmm. Guessing it might be a bit longer.

All expenses paid trip to Mexico? :D

They aren't away from their computer :). Here is a message I received last night...He or she is going to let Joe O know of our forum. I am guessing he knows about it.

"I went on the Forum to reply that Paypal, Joe Orlando (President of PSA), and his attorney have ALL backed Cardregistry on this issue, and I'm scheduled to have a conversation with him shortly as he is on West Coast time. I'm actually going to notify him of this Forum to see what we can do to have this thread removed. I'm clearly not worried about Bob Evans as I have a successful business to run, and I don't have time to deal with an unstable individual. Our name has been cleared of any wrong doing, and it is very unprofessional as well as childish that you would block us from replying to these accusations. With that said, I will look at my options as soon as I speak to Joe's Counsel tonight to see what can be done about this silly situation. I am extremely professional unlike Mr. Robert Evans, and I will ensure that this matter is not forgotten.

Thank you, and have a great day. "





.

Oh boy, I'd be shaking in my shoes. What a clown.

Yes, registering on this forum under a fake name is the height of professionalism.

Standing up
 

"Sometimes you just have to march right in and demand all of your rights...even if you are not sure what your rights are....or who you are talking to....and when you leave, slam the door"---Jack Handey

The I-4 Gang of Three
 

If he was going to talk with Danny Daytona and Tommy Tampa as well, I would be worried. :eek::eek::eek:

i'm done w/ cardregistry.

they've proved their level of competence in a mere two posts.

moving on.

if joe o should happen to peruse this thread, here's a couple of things to possibly think about:

there are 2 levels of fees: $7 and $35.

what are the security measures in place on cards sent in solely for "reholders"?

when someone sends a card in for a reholder, does that guarantee authenticity as well?

naturally they send them in to transfer the cards from older style to the newer style...

but they also send them in for holders that have been dropped or cracked.

so i'm sure the reholdering guys have seen holders in every condition, but are they qualified in detecting cards that doctored/altered as well?

you can see where I am going w/ this....

just want to make sure there isn't a back door security breach that could/would need to be addressed.

while i understand the letter you sent out is probably preformatted and the particulars simply filled in, i did not see any compromised sonic welds or case obstructions. to put it bluntly: those holders were damn good!

not expecting a reply in any manner.

if everyone thinks tampered holders look good and only the experts at PSA can tell the difference, that does sound like a problem. Perhaps PSA can show more detail into how to tell the tampering is evident to people who arent experts..

Bob I am confused because in your first post you said it was a "typical resealment job" but now you are saying how good a job it was.

i did ask jackie (joe o's secretary) this question and to point out exactly where on the case it was compromised and she informed me that joe would only talk to the authorities or someone at one of my financial institutions in regards to getting my refund. she said he would not discuss the holder being comprised at all.

i wasn't inquiring to go on a witch hunt, rather looking to ascertain some knowledge on what exactly i should be looking for on these technologically advanced fakes so that i can know what to look for moving forward.

previous versions were fish in a barrel. with overlabels and flashlight tests, conflicting barcode scans vs. cert numbers, frosting here, cracking there, cloudy adhesive everywhere, etc.

this round of fakes were not. im still impressed.

per the letter.

edit: but when asked where on the holder the resealment took place, i got "we cant tell you that". so that got me thinking about the reholder aspect and slipping one past the goalie.

Interesting, as I believe there is an Anthony Muia in Brooklyn who runs a successful tour business (Slice of Brooklyn) that has been on TV and has a great reputation up in these parts. Not sure if this has any relevance, just throwing it out there.

Great sense of humor :D

As if PSA really gave a crap. As was already said, they knew about re-sealed slabs over a decade ago, but only recently decided to improve their slab.

here are some full scans...

I was following this pretty well, but now am confused. Possible the holder wasn't tampered with?

still no half grade fakes yet..

i don't know. which is why i asked to be informed.

the orr and bird do have that small 1/8" of what could be considered "tampering" on the left side of the holder, but ive also seen similar marks along w/ spider cracks and things of that sort that come straight from psa.

but usually the compromised holders are near the top corner so they can diagonally insert flip and card in. how could you insert a flip where those 1/8" marks w/o cracking or cause frosting that is more damaging than what is seen.

but that montana. from the scans, i don't think id ever think twice...

edit: again, not witch hunting. just would like to get an answer for protection and to be on the look out.

hell, i'd be happy w/ a vid tutorial on the psa site.

walk us thru each fake, or example there of, on how they are being done...

"this month on spotting the fake..."

Authentic decimal points are tough to duplicate.;)

The best was when they said they were going to talk to Joe Orlando to have this thread removed. lol Leon must have got a nice laugh out of that.

Why would those be tougher to fake?

And all they have to do to respond to this thread that they're so worried about is provide their real name and phone number when they register? Seems like such a simple solution. The lack of common sense in some people amazes me.

This makes me wonder what name (professional alias) he is using in his discussions with Joe. Maybe he is going to comp Joe a tour of Brooklyn.:D

lol :)

ok, here is one last gem considering i'm the unstable one.

baffles me that they cant understand why i will only talk to them via text

or the fact that everything they send isn't being saved.


i have blocked 3 numbers from them at this point, but considering it's Friday...

here is another gem from a very professional anthony, i mean, william or is it vadim?

enjoy!

edit: removed image as to not offend anyone. but it was funny! ; )

very professional..

Is it possible that they're not re-seal jobs? Is it possible that fake slabs and flips are being reproduced? Or is it even possible that real slabs are leaving PSA out the backdoor and being sold to the crooks. The pics you posted don't seem to show signs of tampering...and they have the PSA logo in the bottom right corner.

that's why I was asking about authentication thru reholdering.

a reholder fee on $5K is $35.
a review fee is $500 - $700.

I can not imagine they are paying the guy that's reviewing cards @ $700 a pop, the same as the guy that is reholdering at $35 a pop.



people send in cards all the time to be reholdered because they've been dropped, cracked, etc.

are the guys "reholdering" proficient in spotting an altered card/holder?

ie. scammer cracks a case. inserts doctored card, but doesn't necessarily reseal or does a great reseal job and then sends it in to get reholdered?

or buy a few high dollar real cards and slip a doctored one in the bunch?

not saying this IS happening.

but is it possible to slip one past the goalie occasionally?

I was just trying to get an answer but was told that I wouldn't even be talked to by jackie* even though it says "if you would like to discuss w/ me, my number is..."

* side note: and i believe this to be the same jackie that mods the cu board

Sounds like more than one thing is a definite possibility?

When Begsu stated, "that come straight from PSA" I immediately thought of a corrupt mailman or post office who might also be in on this?

Endless possibilities I suppose, but it seems more and more clear to me this a network or a collaboration with more than just a couple people. :confused:

I agree it was funny but was just a bit over the top for the forum to stay in the PG rated area....These folks are something.

If that's possible it's a very scary thought. I would hope that even with a reholder someone at PSA would be able to tell if it was an original PSA holder that had not been tampered with or not.

It would be nice if we could get a direct answer from them on this issue but I doubt that will happen.

Damn I missed the image...can we at least get a PG round about description? :D

He...umm...expressed a desire to make love to a certain part of Bob's body.

Nicely done Dan!! :p

Ha!

Indeed!

This topic needs more input. Does PSA review the card during a re-holdering or not? If PSA is not reviewing the card and just re-holdering, what prevents someone from sending in a PSA 9 cracked case, and inserting a PSA 8 in its' place to be "re-holdered"?

I'm not addressing someone inserting a counterfeit card during the re-holder process, just a lesser grade card.

Seems to me PSA needs to change their policy. The re-holder fee must include a verification of original card fee.

Especially where the difference between a 9 and a 10 is mostly illusory anyhow, although the price tag is multiples different. Buy a 9, open it up, print a 10 label, reseal, and reholder.

The only time I sent in a cracked holder for a reholder, I got an email saying because the case was compromised the card would have to be reviewed for any damage and I was not guaranteed the same grade. I had to respond with an email acknowledging that before they would proceed.

I recently sent cards in for a reholder in person in long Beach and was told the cards are not reviewed as long as the holder is not compromised. How much scrutiny the holders get before they are cracked out is the bigger issue. Especially as Bob mentioned if someone sent in a few good ones along with one that had been cracked and resealed.

At least the grade isn't reviewed. I don't know if they inspect the card for authenticity.

Maybe they can tell the resealed ones because they take more than 2 seconds to open.:) Seriously I would bet the resealed slabs are much harder to open.

got a call from denver police detective today requesting info on this.
super nice guy and an actual coin collector. he has dealt w/ some fraudulent psa holders previously,
so if anyone has any info on these guys or been the victim of a fake holder,
they are asked to please contact him.
as a collector himself,
he seems to hold sincere interest in this case!

email below:



Bob

The suspect’s name is Mayo McNeil, and another person claiming to be his grandson uses Matt McNeil.
Anything from them would be highly suspect.




http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/584.../EmailIcon.jpg

Peter J. Palombi, 85013| Detective
Denver Police Department | City and County of Denver
720.913.6062 Phone | 720.913.7027 Fax
peter.palombi@denvergov.org

To clarify, these are the guys whose cards were listed by cardregistry?

Just got off the phone with this detective hence the thread just started. Yes, it is a fake or altered holder issue, I believe...

no.

these are the guy/guys that are possibly obtaining the fakes from mexico.
and have unloaded a few in the co area. apparently he is a 75 year old man and has had previous run ins w/ the detective.

for complete transparency, the guys at cardregistry were, indeed, on the hook for the $100K+ that was "sold" and was taken from their bank acct. but i think the total was $156Kish.

still go back and forth about feeling bad for them considering that amount.

I am still confused, so what's their connection to cardregistry?

might be the consignor, i guess?

apparently cr had to file a IC3 complaint.

assuming it listed all the parties involved....

from a quick search...

Right, that's what I asked and you said no.

simply because i don't know...

i am sure there are several hands and layers to this.

the name that was given to me by cardregistry as the consignor was not that name.

but could be on the paper trail/bank acct somewhere or something.

will probably never know for certainty.