Don't forget it's also altered.

Most of your post was spot on, but this one is not. To modern collectors, the Precious Metal Gems set definitely qualifies.

Previous sales:
Jordan Red /90 PSA AUTH: $21,500 sold by BBCE in 2016
Barkley Red /90 PSA 8: $3,250 sold by PWCC in 2018
Kobe Championship /50 PSA 7: $3400 by PWCC in 2017
Glenn Robinson Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $950 in 2017 and $1400 in 2018
Sean Elliott Green /10 PSA 8: sold for $1000 in 2017
Ron Mercer Green /10 PSA 7: sold for $600 twice
Kevin Willis Red /90 raw: sold for $200 on COMC
Grant Hill Red /90 raw: sold for $600 on COMC
Voshon Leonard Red /90 raw: sold for $120 on COMC
Antoine Walker Red /90 raw: sold for $210 on COMC
Jermaine O'Neal Red /90 raw: sold for $150 on COMC

As you can see, even the /90 red versions are highly sought after for common players. And the condition sensitivity isn't near as important due to the rarity. If you don't buy the card when it comes up for auction, no guarantee it comes around again.

It's the only altered one. Talk about rare!

Yeah, I may have spoken out of school on that particular line, since I don’t know modern cards. I appreciate the comment.

This was funny no matter what side of the aisle you are on.

I just read this entire thread. I don’t collect modern. I don’t even like modern-day baseball. I own two cards that are newer than 1921 (the infamous 33 Lajoie and a 35 Nagurski). I love old, I love rare, and I love it most if its 100+ years. I hate when I take my kids to shows and they want to spend $100 on some lottery box instead of buying a mid-grade Clemente or something similar (my kids are not into the 100+ year stuff). All that said, I am glad that New cards are popular and valuable. It’s good for all aspects/areas of the “hobby”/asset class.

So you modern guys, keep collecting, or playing the lottery, or whatever you do. You are good for us old-stick-in-the-mud vintage collectors. You are good for cards. You keep the hobby new and you help keep cards valuable. I don’t understand your taste, but I don’t need to understand. We are all on the same team, look at the same auctions, attend the same shows, search the Internet for like-minded friends on forums like these. Go Sports Cards!

Well said.

Indeed!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

https://www.buzzsprout.com/238508/96...5th-of-an-inch
People care so much about this card they just recorded a 2 hour, 40 minute podcast discussing it (and the rest of the set).

That wouldn't be quite as bad a sitting through Reds.

To each their own I say.

dont think I have the fortitude to listen to that!!!

It reminded me to go to COMC and check out the base cards for sale. I started looking for some GT players in the set and grabbed one of each. One of them had an error (originally all base cards were marked PMG next to the card number, then they put a black covering around the number to hide the printing error).
So I looked through the rest of the set, found about 5, bought them, and submitted to COMC that they should mark them as errors. Repriced them to attempt making a small profit.

say what????? COMC...GT...PMG...is this some other language?

Check Out My Cards
Georgia Tech

...I got 2/3

I think PMG refers to the insert - Precious Metal Gems

https://img.comc.com/i/Basketball/19...zoom&side=back
COMC: Check out my Cards website. 20 million cards for sale.
GT: Georgia Tech
PMG: Precious Metal Gems. What this thread is about.

2/3 have been in my signature here for years.

This sums up my feelings. When vintage cards were printed some hundred years ago, there was not one iota of thought by the manufacturer that one day these cards would be valuable. They were printed for one reason only: to help sell a product associated with it. It would take generations for collectors to discover that some were genuinely rare and worth a premium. It would take generations to determine that some were hard to find and in great demand, and that somebody would be willing to pay a lot of money to purchase them.

Modern cards are different. In the case of this Jordan, a bunch of guys in suits sat in a boardroom and came up with a strategy to manufacture a rarity that current collectors would pay a huge premium for. You can collect whatever you want and pay whatever you want, but a vintage card that became rare and expensive over time is a completely different animal than a modern card that was planned from the outset to be a chase card for collectors.

I don't acknowledge the latter, but apparently there are collectors who do. Chances are in the long run they will lose money on most of these manufactured rarities, but that is their choice and it is their money

well stated Barry!

+2

5 cents in 1933 is worth what today ? $1 or 95 cents ? $100 then is worth what?
$2667 or so ?

It may be a cult set, and that's cool for people who enjoy it, but to me it's just a base card painted green.

Modern, Vintage, Prewar and Pop Goes the Weasel

A modern card in an 8 or 9 holder is virtually the same as the same card in a 10 holder.

Similarly a prewar tobacco card in a 6 holder, is also quite similar to its higher graded brethren occupying 7 or 8 holders.

However Pop reports in all eras suggest that there is rarity at the extreme upper end of the grading scale regardless of the era or issue.

So what difference does it make anyway, suits in the Topps board room manufacture rarity, card doctors restore tobacco cards and by doing so "manufacture" rarity, or graders by their pyramid of grading "manufacture" rarity at the upper end of the scale. All are weasels.

Card grading enhances the ability of collectors to deal via the internet, but
card grading and Pop reports a secondary effect, to facilitate "cashing" in on that rarity whichever factor was involved in creating it. Different weasels to be sure, but the same results when viewed broadly.

Exponential cost differential relative to linear grading increments seems irrational.
Should a card absent one microscopic imperfection be worth 10, 20 or 30 times the card with that imperfection. Probably not, but it is. The necessary catalyst for this construct to flourish is the buyer's ego without which pricing would lose much of its ever increasing exponential steps and return to a more linear scale.

Nothing earth shattering hear but to try to explain the difference between a high grade tobacco card that spent 90 years in a book as a forgotten bookmark, a mint 52 Mantle rookie card of which a small finite number exist, and a Michael Jordan green metallic refractor numbered 1/2 seems like a fruitless exercise. All are rare. Their rarity was created by different circumstances, but each will attract a collector with a wallet compatible with his ego, for a place atop a Registry, bragging rights or perhaps only to profit from a resale knowing that with our current system there will always be a greater fool who will pay more for that special card than he did. Or will there?

Auction ended...again???

It's still open:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Metal-...frcectupt=true

Sitting as a measly 121K. Mere bag of shells. Last time there was a $750,000 bid retraction, a $200,000 bid retraction, and a $176,000 bid retraction. From different bidders. And a $500,000 bid was cancelled from a seller with "0" feedback.

I don't know where you vintage guys get the idea this modern market for high end modern cards is anything less than being on the up and up. Perfectly normal bidding behavior. Nothing to see here. Move on.

LOL; because all the eBay bids on vintage items are authentic...

There are 2,484 watchers on this card.

Obviously plenty are just rubbing necking but that is a huge number and indicative of a very large number of people interested in this card.

The next closest card on EBAY using the search PSA is at 736 watchers and it is the Tim Duncan from this set.

To put this in better perspective the next highest is a Jordan PSA 10 rookie at 432.

If the buyer pays in the next few hours he gets $100 back in eBay bucks.

Auction ended with a high bid of $350,100.00. Quite amazing in my opinion.

That's a lot of beanie babies

And the Tim Duncan card from the same set went for almost 34k!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

can someone explain why this Jordan card is so popular?

Sold to Nat Turner, super high end collector.

Jdoggs, read the rest of this thread. It has already answered your question over and over again.

This is the beauty of capitalism. It spawns people successfull enough to drop 350k on a shiny Michael Jordan card from 1997 and not even flinch.

Awesome!

I looked him up, and found this:

https://www.psacard.com/articles/art...ard-collection

Of note:
“I just got PSA to add a set to the Registry and I am currently the only one working on the set because these cards are so rare. It is the 1997-98 Precious Metals Gems Green Basketball set. I have already completed the red set, of which 90 cards were produced of each player, and there are 123 cards in the set. There were only 10 serial-numbered examples of each green card produced, and I have 107 of them so far. I am missing 16 cards right now.”

He recently sold his company for 2.1 Billion dollars.

The Gem Mint grade was pure marketing genius.

One way to look at it. The other way of course is how ridiculous is it that folks in this country can't afford to go to the doctor or the dentist and this dude has 350K to drop on a shiny Michael Jordan card from 1997.

It is called capitalism. People who want to work hard can buy nice things for themselves. Those that are lazy will struggle to survive.

Yeah I guess that's it. Thanks for the education.

Are you not this same guy with less zeroes at the end?

Yes, I buy expensive cards. And I'm not knocking anyone who does. But if someone's going to say how great is capitalism that people can spend hundreds of thousands on a baseball card, I'll make the obviously point that if capitalism is so great why is it that some people (who work very hard) can't get by with the bare necessities. Read recently that over 50% of our fellow Americans can't come up with $900 for an emergency.

And that's my last comment on the subject before Leon gives me ring.

This sums it up in a nutshell. While everyone was busy buying Billy Ripken FF cards and then all the 80's 90's complete garbage, I was busy buying vintage. How did I do compared to the minions? You can not give that stuff away. You have to pay to landfill it all. Acuna may be good, but odds are he flames out. Babe ruth we know about. He WAS good!

If you want to give socialism a shot I hear things are great in Venezuela. You may even track down some rare Topps cards while you're there.

No system is perfect, but capitalism is still the best.

I've bought quite a few cards from there, but despite everything that's going on over there the prices haven't changed.

You just said it yourself.... YOU buy expensive cards, but now you're going to question others that do, as well as the system that A) Is able to facilitate it, and B) Gives you a voice to be able to complain? Why don't you sell those cards Steve, and contribute the money to some of your fellow Americans that have less? Just don't be a hypocrite, put your money AND your cards where your mouth is.

Unfortunately its not quite this simple

Game, set, match.

It's astonishing, though, that some people think it is. As though all the people struggling have only themselves to blame.

No not all


WAIT....


NO POLITICS ON THE BOARD!

I agree with REPUBLICANinMass. No politics on the board. Wait, what???? Well, regardless of the irony of his screen name, he’s right.

:o I see what ya did there!

I would think a Republican in Mass would be kind of a "one of" thing?

I hope he is not in Mass or I just sent a lot of pictures of famous dead people to the wrong place.:eek:

Not at all. Massachusetts has had four Republican governors in the past three decades.

This thread has played itself out and appears to be going the wrong direction. Perhaps it's time to let it be and move on.

An observation - Not a Commentary or opinion
 

My guess is that the Jordan buyer might balk at AOC’s Green New Deal.

And that AOC would also balk at his green new Jordan deal.:D

I figured it was only a matter of time before you worked AOC into one of your posts.:cool::eek:

Let’s bring it back this way. There is a Magic/Bird ROOKIE PSA 10 at auction tonight. According to the PSA pop report, there are only 22 gem mint 10 Magic/Bird rookies. The auction estimate is 100k+, and it is currently at 84k with BP. Let’s compare this card to the green Jordan. The green Jordan has a slightly lower population, since only 10 were made. The M/B card was mass-produced, but only 22 10’s exist. This is the ROOKIE card of two of the greatest players of all time...on ONE CARD!!! The third player on the card is Dr.J.
The Green Jordan is an insert card in a set that was released on Jordan’s 12th season. And to top it off, it appears to be altered. So of course, it sells for 3.5X the expected sale price of a gem mint M/B rookie.
This isn’t a judgement on the buyer, or even on modern vs vintage. This is just one of the many reasons why some of us can’t understand the price on the green Jordan. When you compare the sheer importance of one card vs another, it doesn’t appear to be close. I realize that this isn’t completely apples to apples, but it certainly illustrates why so many are shocked about the Jordan.

If there are 22 PSA 10s of Magic/Bird, and PSA has been grading them for 30 years, you can expect the pop report to increase by 1 almost every year. The other 7 PMG Green Jordans may never show up; only 2 or 3 of them have ever surfaced.
I get that most of the teeth-gnashing is over the fact that vintage collectors don't really understand just how big the modern insert card market is, and how the basketball market specifically is being driven by dot com millionaires all over the world (Japan, Taiwan, Nat Turner, PWCC clientele). Michael Jordan is a worldwide superstar on the Michael Jackson/Elvis level; neither Bird or Magic are.
Nat probably already has his PSA 10 Magic/Bird/Erving in the vault.
#illgetoffyourlawn ;-)

Voice in the wilderness I know, but I think it's madness to pay 100K for a Bird Magic, there are countless thousands around in Mint shape.

I thought I was pretty clear about the fact that this isn’t a modern v vintage thing. In fact, I don’t think of 1980 Topps as vintage. Im pointing out the importance of the rookie card of two top-5 greats versus an insert.
Your point about the 7 other Jordans being unaccounted-for is huge. That was never mentioned on here before. Those may be lost forever. I disagree with you that a new m/b 10 will pop up a year. That issue is EXTREMELY tough to find in a 10.

I thought I saw something on Blowout where someone and maybe it was the buyer of the AUTH said he knew where 5 of the Jordans were.

I don’t disagree.

Old 11-25-2018, 10:18 PM #8
natsturner
Member


Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 160
natsturner Default

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by eWax View Post
FYI- I still believe there a few more green Jordan PMG's in those boxes. I never have believed the story about the person overseas owning 7-8 of them.

Yeah, I know of five of them for sure that are in collector's hands
natsturner is online now

Magic and Bird were great, but they weren't 2 of the top 5.

Magic is for sure.
Bird, somewhere 7-10 IMO.

Well, with VintageBreaks cracking packs every week and people with 9s reviewing them annually, I wouldn't be shocked at all if we average a new 10 per year.
Surely the big buyers are tracking which ones exist. I am doing research now and will update:
001 - pulled by a guy who bought a few boxes off eBay in 2015.
002
003 - claimed to be seen here: http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...578&highlight=
004
005
006 - PSA Auth bought by Nat Turner for $350,000
007
008 - This one is claimed to be 008: http://truepowermartialarts.com/just...3%20Green.html
009
010

001 article

pictures of 001 and 006

There is another picture of a rainbow (base, red, and green all together) from before 2015. It could be 006, or it could be a different number, or it could theoretically be a fake.
http://img-cdn.jg.jugem.jp/9d9/14898...023_666390.jpg

When is the Mascot Dog Food Mantle going to resurface. If I had $50K in the bank last year, I would have bought that one to hold. Not sending that through PWCC did the owner a disservice, unless by choosing his own family's auctionhouse, he feels it was worth the additional advertising gained.

Edit: Haven't found any more, but will update if/when I hear of them. Sometimes this kind of stuff is treated as trade secrets, because it can influence prices of ones that do come to market. There are reported sales of them back when they first came out, but those may be lost to overzealous moms or ruined by attics.

John, it probably depends on whether PSA wants to grade more or not. Surely they have the pops in mind and aren't grading in a vacuum, IMO.

Lost forever? More likely in unopened packs!!

What percent of the print run of Skybox Precious Metals do you think is still unopened after 22 years? 5%? So 0.5 Jordan greens still in packs?
One of these Jordan PMG greens sold for like $10K back when they were new. People ripped packs with chase cards, and the print run wasn't in the billions like Donruss and Topps baseball from the mid-80s.

I suppose there is a small chance 1 or 2 got tossed with a box of junk era cards. Or burned in a fire. But I wouldn't be surprised if all 10 are either in collections, unopened packs, or sitting in boxes with other 90s cards waiting to be rediscovered.

So it appears 4 of the 10 Jordan greens have been found. If/when the other 6 are discovered, how much do you think this will affect the price of the current 4 discovered?

It may not affect the price much at all. Market demand is much higher than possible supply. If 3 come to market this year maybe. If they come out every five years, it gives a bunch of new collectors the chance to dream about it, earn their millions, and place a bid next time.

An underdiscussed part of this is there’s a fella out there who bid $349k or whatever for the Jordan and didn’t get it.

I feel terrible for that guy.

If you want a card you gotta man up.

Please explain how someone didn't get a card, was that the high bid?

I honestly only read this thread for the humor.

The underbidders never get the card unfortunately. I've been there myself once or twice. Winning bid was just over 350k.

I hope there's more to that set. Boxes go for well over $2k

This guy went out and kicked ass in life. On a bell curve he is an outlier and should be proud of his accomplishments.

I don't think anyone can honestly say they wouldn't love to have FU money and be able to sit with their phone in hand and launch a snipe that says I am winning this card bitch.

My problem with modern cards, which for me is 1988 forward, is that I like to collect players to completion and that is impossible now since they make so many of them. I love Ichiro and was thinking of collecting his cards until I saw there were over 10000 cards of him. The modern cards are great looking and innovative but I’m glad I collected before they started making so many of them.