OT- RIP Joe Paterno
 

I just read on the news that Joe Paterno passed away. No details yet. It just flashed at the bottom of Meet the Press. Very sad. He was 85. RIP Joe....

I wonder how much the stress of the scandal and the way Penn St. treated him was at fault for his quick decline. Very sad.

Joshua

I know he had cancer, but the events of the last few months had to take a terrible toll. That's a very sad story. Still one of the greatest coaches of all time. R.I.P. Joe.

RIP JoePa.

As a Penn State alum, this has been a very, very sad year. I didn't realize how emotionally attached I was to the Paterno legend (or partial myth if you want to call it) until all this went down. I used to pass him walking from his home to Beaver stadium and he always had time to smile and say hello to students.

This whole ordeal has played out worse than a Greek tragedy.
Very sad. RIP Joe.

This is news that lays heavy on my heart. Anyone who knows me knows I can hardly be found with out my Penn State hats or hoodies. Joe you were an amazing man and coach and will be missed:( RIP Papa Joe


WE ARE.......

Any chance you'd like to re-think the use of "Greek":eek: Sorry.

Anyways, I agree the way all of this played out was very sad indeed. Joe gave his whole life to the game, only to have it all end in scandal, illness and a rather quick death...YES, the man pretty much gave his "entire" life to the game, and it's one of the saddest things ever that the final months of his life were full of stress, scandal and illness, and he never was afforded the chance to embrace a peaceful life outside of the game..Perhaps, that was his choice though..

RIP Joe Pa...

RIP Joe Pa. Its sad that he died this way but the whole Sandusky cover-up was reprehensible!

His firing was pathetic and is a horrible way to end his life and career. He should have been given the oportunity to resign and leave with some dignity.

Penn State
Class of 1983

Joe was so powerful, nothing happened on that campas without him knowing about it. He himself admits to not doing enough, but it's a little too late now. How many kids could he have saved? I believe he was an enabler. What's pathetic is that he asked to finish the season when all this became public. What's horrible is he allowed it to continue to the present. The man did a lot of good for a lot of people, but how can anyone turn a blind eye to the whole story. He didn't go far enough. Not even close.

Rich

I cant believe I agree with a Bosox fan!!! The man had more power than the Governor of Pennsylvania and he did NOTHING!!! He was an enabler and I dont care how many people he smiled at and what he did for the University! When he had a chance to really do something significant, he failed miserably!!!!

None of us know the entire story, and none of us ever will. I have no affiliation to Penn State other than being a sports fan, but I still choose to remember the man by the 99.9% of his life of which he should be. RIP Joe Pa.

I'm not a Penn State alum, don't root for them in football or any other sport, and am appalled at the whole Sandusky situation and how it was handled. That being said to focus solely on that and ignore everything good that Paterno did in his life, particularly at this moment, shows a complete lack of class IMO.

If it were recruiting violations and selling jerseys and memorabilia, you are right! But, Im sorry when it comes to 10 yr old children being sodomized on campus and especially in the locker rooms, I dont care if hes the Pope!!!!I dont care what he did for 60+ years! He had a chance to protect innocent children and he failed!

Is this not heinous enough for you? The only thing worse to do to children is to murder them! Cmon man!!

Yeah, it's all JoePa's fault. Even though I suspect that neither you nor I know even half of what transpired or how, good, bad or indifferent, you are in a better position than anyone else to determine that. It must be wonderful to know so much more than the entire Pennsylvania criminal justice system combined. I wonder why none of them have asked you what they should do.

So let me ask you this: If a serial rapist saves a bunch of kids from a burning building, is he a bad guy or a hero? Rather clearly unlike you, my answer would be both. The good deed doesn't cancel out the bad, nor does the bad negate the good. That's the same way I think about JoePa and his legacy. And, as I mentioned before, I think you have absolutely no class to mention the bad without ever considering the good, particularly at a time like this. Have a good day.

All anyone needs to know is that he knew Sandusky was sodomizing children and that they people he told did nothing about it. He then decided to go about his everyday life w/o doing or saying anything about it. He put football and "the program" over doing what was right and needed to be done to protect innocent children. Not to mention he allowed Sandusky back at PSU and even game him office space and allowed him to used the football facilities for his Second Mile charity.

Im basing my information only on facts. Joe admitted that he should have done more but he chose the football program and the university over the safety of 10 yr old boys. He was a great football coach and thats it, but I dont want to hear about any of this integrity stuff!!

Most people are remembered for what they did in life, a few for what they did not do...for me, I will remember the latter when I think of Joe Paterno.

I agree with the post above. I know a lot of people think what happened to Joe the last few months is "sad" and "not fair" but what if those kids were your kids? What if these things didn't have to happen to them if only he did the right thing? He was a great sportsman but to me the scandal and tragedies that occurred under his watch outweigh anything that happened on a football field. I have no sympathy for him in terms of how he is remembered. And think this scandal should tarnish his legacy and not be forgotten or set aside in favor of inconsequential championships.

Its strange to me that people defend him. That people say it wasn't his fault, that he was just there. It is hard for me to understand that just because a man coaches a football team people will blindly defend him. The things he did not do for children, things that cannot be undone and will destroy their lives FOREVER, far outweigh anything he did do in a sports arena. We're all adults. We understand the consequences of sexual abuse. I can't imagine saying "Yeah but..."

Great football coach..I will remember fondly the Nebraska vs Penn State rivalry, but I will always think there was a look the other way attitude in order to shield the school and football program, and that will forever taint his legacy. It's a shame, but there really is no other way to look at it. Once he had been told, he had a moral responsibility to protect the children in Sandusky's life, but he did the very minimum.

This had to happen eventually, but he will really be missed - regardless of your thoughts regarding the recent issue that got him fired, he was a college football (and sports) institution and also showed us that there's no need to roll over and die when you get old. It sucks the way he went out.

Good thing you edited Kenny. I was watching you like a hawk.:)

In the second half of the New England-Baltimore game, the announcers made a brief statement that Paterno died. There was very little if any praise, just a passing note about his death. But do you remember the accolades John Wooden got when he passed? Paterno was in his own right a legend the equal of Wooden, but he is not going to get the same praise. His was a moral failing; he knew that if he took this story to the right authorities, the football program might go down, which is of course the university's major cash cow. Who knows, maybe he wanted to do more and was pressured not to. A lot of new information will come to light soon.

Football is a sport. These are the lives of human beings. One needs to come before the other. If it doesn't, then something is wrong. I understand how a lot of people WANT to find a reason to let Joe off the hook. But it's time to face facts. I don't knock anyone for having pride in their school. But I do hope people stop trying to find a reason not to call a spade a spade. I think CBS is not bringing Joe up a whole lot in respect to the victims, which I think is the right call.

Paterno
 

I hope this is the last time I ever hear Paterno's name mentioned in the same sentence as John Wooden.

Agreed. Wooden was a great basketball coach, but it's a different sport and I have no interest in it. Compared to Paterno, Wooden was a child when he retired.

Rest in Peace Joe Paterno

Live in Peace Penn State victims

I agree Noel. The difference between the legacies the two men left is startling

Dan, here's another way to look at it, despite your proclamation: Every time a public figure dies, there will be those who use the event as an opportunity to jump on their soapboxes and speak as if virgins. Nothing new here. There are very few spotless people on this planet, and there are very few on this forum who truly know what they would have done in Paterno's situation. Despite your insinuations, I do not believe he was a bad man. That's the way I look at it.

Dammit. That Sandusky pervert was the catalyst to JoePa's downfall and the the tarnishment of a once great career. And this guy can't keep his mouth shut even after the man's death. Attn: Jerry- No one gives a sh*t what you think, and I'm sure no one needs your condolences. Just shut the hell up, do the right thing and eat a round...

I'm not giving JoePa a pass on what happened. But Sandusky has to know that even commenting right now is completely tasteless.

I am saddened by Joe Paterno's passing. As a PSU alumnus I have a paternal bond to our late coach and university figurehead. It does not, however, blind me to his transgressions. His good works are timeless; his faults are the same. What a good man we have lost. Perhaps being a Penn Stater has colored my judgement, but it has also allowed me the honor of knowing good and pride and honor. RIP JoePa.

/

Football is a kid's game and how it can exert so much influence and power at what is supposed to a be an institution of higher learning is ridiculous. That applies to beyond Penn State of course. And, for the record, I went to a Big Ten school and do root for their football team when they play-- so I'm not beyond enjoying a good Division I football game.

Great coach. Great man? Not so much.
 

Integrity is often defined as doing the right thing, even if nobody is watching. In the case if Joe Paterno we are left to question his integrity. This is very unfortunate because in life he touched a great many people and is a legend to hundreds of his players. But, when he had the choice to truly make a difference in this life he chose the easier path. I admire the coach but lost respect for the man. RIP JoePa. I'm sure the last two months hastened the end and am disappointed you had a hand in letting it end this way. Your pain is over. For others it will never end.

John et. al.

Being a teacher and working with children for the last 25 years, I was appalled at what went on with Sandusky and Paterno until one of my good friends asked me how I would have handled the situation.

I have made that call a few times in my career and each time it was on suspicion of abuse, not proof. And each time it was VERY difficult. I know teachers and staff that were unable to make the call even to possibly save a child. It is a difficult thing to confront. I am not excusing Paterno's actions at all and he had a responsibility to go further and he failed. But how many of you might have made the same calls in his situation. It is not an easy thing to believe, confront, and then take action against.

Before people roast Paterno, take a second and ask yourself how you would have handled it if a close friend/co-worker was possibly caught hurting a child and how would you handle all the implications to follow.

Joshua

A sad end
 

I too am a school teacher. Until very recently, teachers were told not to confront parents, fellow faculty members, etc., they suspected of abuse or neglect. Protocol dictated that if you suspected someone of these transgressions, they should be reported to your supervisor (principle, dean, etc.). That person was to act on that information by taking it to people who make decisions about hiring and firing and who have access to the legal machinery of the institution. This policy was instituted to protect teachers and others from legal action resulting from what might turn out to be false accusations. This is exactly what Paterno did.

Where he failed was in not questioning why Sandusky was still on the sideline with him after he had reported what he knew to his superiors. It's very hard to believe that his actions in what would become a national scandal ended there. Was there no follow up? Didn't anybody get back to him to let him know what any type of investigation determined? Was there even an investigation? Regardless of what his superiors did or didn't do, Paterno had the ultimate responsibility for his program and his staff, and even if Paterno thought a hint of what Sandusky was accused of might be true, Sandusky should have been fired. That was Paterno's failing and his downfall.

Shakespeare, speaking through Mark Anthony in "Julius Caesar" wrote: "The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones."

Unfortunately, he could have been writing about Joe Paterno.

Ray, at that point, Sandusky was not a part of the program. He'd been retired for 3 or 4 years, but was allowed access to all school facilities and given an office as part of his retirement.. Basically, Paterno had no control over the guy. But yes, I understand your sentiment about protocol.

Joe Paterno
 

rest in peace, Joe Paterno.
my sympathy to family and friends.

barry

Omg
 

Anybody who has anything nice to say about this lowlife scumbag should be forceably raped and see how you like it. I know he didn't do it, but he knew about it and that makes him just as guilty. The university knows it, that's why he was fired. You Paterno backers make me sick. People who put a stupid sport in front of children's safety deserve to burn in hell with Sandusky.:mad::mad::mad:

Re: Joe Paterno
 

I can't help but wonder what the conversations between Paterno and Sandusky were like the last nine years; and why he continued to allow his name to be used (as an honorary director) by that foundation for nine years after he was aware of the accusations against Sandusky. And don't ask me to believe that he couldn't have gotten him away from the campus and program if he wanted to. Yes, he was a great coach and mentor to many people, but this episode will forever sully his legacy.

Well-said, Joshua. One of the down sides to the internet is all the discussion forum preachers. I don't think any more or less of Paterno because of their speeches. The self-righteous pulpit is what Facebook's for.

I really think this fact has been intentionally overlooked by many, and accidentally overlooked by some. Sandusky had been retired for 3 years when the 2002 stuff took place and when Joe found out about it. Pretty hard to fire someone, or otherwise discipline them, when they no longer work for you. Sandusky deserves every bad thing that can happen to him legally, but the way the media made out that this whole thing was Joe Paterno's fault and tainted his legacy has seemed very unfair to me. And firing a guy over the phone, after 60 some years of working for the same employer, would be a low class move whether we are talking about college football or a steel mill.

Re: OT- RIP Joe Paterno
 

Yet he continued to enjoy access to campus facilities. Surely someone should have seen to it that he be barred from the campus. The inaction by Paterno and others allowed the abuse to continue for several years after the initial discovery.

Is this a joke? I wouldnt want my kids anywhere near you!

+1

Scumbag
 

Joe Paterno is a piece of garbage!


Correction.....was

Firing someone who sodomized children??? It doesnt matter if he worked there at all or not, he was very visible on campus and had access to all of the facilities. Paterno should have immediately banned him from Penn State forever and reported him to the Police!!! You dont only lose your job for heinous sex crimes vs children, you go to jail!!!! As far as Im concerned, I dont care how many buildings or wings he contributed to the University! He had a chance to make a difference and he chose protecting his friend, the university and most of all the football program over protecting 10 yr old boys from single parent homes!!!

From what I heard, they had almost no personal relationship, and that it was strictly professional. I really don't think that he was trying to cover for his friend as many seem to imply. Was he wrong? In a way yes, for not doing more. Was anything intentional? I really don't believe that.

actually
 

According to many reports Paterno did turn him into campus police. Couple this with the fact that McQueary admits he did not tell joe all the facts and I feel he got a raw deal. The university more than Paterno seems at fault for the coverup. And if you think Im a Paterno apologist you obviously dont know me.

Tony and Jim,

In an alternate universe his reporting of the issue to his superiors might not have fallen through the cracks and Sandusky's horrors might have been stopped. It is not within the realm of possibility to believe that Paterno could have done nothing more than what he did and the and this sad story could have been brought to a grinding halt. Unfortunately it didn't and if you want to vilify him as an enabler or for not shouting what he heard from the rooftops you have that right. But some of us have chose to remember him for the immense good he did in his life and we too have that right. I completely understand that this is a firestorm topic and people's opinions on his legacy are already etched in stone, but the opening statement of your post is unnecessary.

Uh oh. Steve, bend over - we have a line forming at Tony's request. Could you stop by Rite-Aid and pick up some vaseline? I'm thinking this is going to hurt.

Ouch! Or rather sooooooey!

Methinks that there are a few folks on this thread who need to valet park their high horses.

RIP Joe.

.

man o man
 

I am glad I didn't really comment after I started this thread. If anyone wants to argue about this stuff, go for it. But please remember about having your names in your posts if you are not extremely well known already. thanks

Agreed on both counts.

Well said. RIP JoePa.

The truly blind are those with the hubris to presume from the outside that they know all of the pertinent circumstances and facts.

Perhaps this thread is a little unfair if it is solely about his sports career. I'd say a million things about Ty Cobb and how disgraceful most of his personal life was, but can still appreciate how great he was on the field. However, I still think that is apples and oranges.

Jesus, he just died. Most of us were looking at it from the standpoint that he is dead. I guess we'll have to add 'dead coaches' to the trouble-making list of religion and politics.

Hopefully none of this carries forward into our hobby relationships, but I have to admit, when I'm told that if my opinion is different from someone else's, that I deserve to be raped, or that I'm worthless, my hair stands up a little.

I agree with you. But I did not say that nor would I ever encourage such behavior. Like I said, I can understand if this thread is just about his career in sports. That's fair. Lots of our heroes made mistakes and had errors in judgement. I don't support apologists though or making excuses about why certain behaviors are acceptable. That's all.

I get it, but I just hate to see forum members horse-whipped for wishing the guy a peaceful eternity now that he's dead.

I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't wish Paterno had called the police (including Paterno).

Well, its good to know that Tony, our resident hater, has made his thoughts known. If you don't agree with him, you are subject to being ass-raped and burning in hell. Too bad Tony was born 500 years too late to be involved in those witch burnings. I bet watching that would have made Tony's day.

So, Tony, what about those who aren't yet sure whether or not they agree with you about Paterno? Do they get only half the punishment that people who actually disagree with you get? Either ass-raped or consigned to burn in hell? Exactly how does that work? Do they get to pick or is that your choice? Who made you God? Before you go accusing Paterno of anything, go take a look in the mirror.

As usual Kenny comes out of the woodwork to attack me personally. I don't know him (or wish to) but every time I voice my opinion I get shouted down by him. Look at the history, you'll see. Maybe I should just keep quiet like JoePa and I'll be voted onto sainthood like him.

An interesting take on coach Paterno

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7...no-true-legacy

There is no excuse for the mistake(s) he made, but there was also a lot of good in the man. Like the rest of us he was not perfect.

Hopefully, Penn State, other institutions, all of of us, will learn from these mistakes.

Let him without sin...

I went to Penn State and saw Joe many times on campus. He was always cordial and always spoke even before we had a chance to say hello to him. So let me set up another scenario that you may not have envisioned.

Let's assume that McQueery came to him, as he did, with this sketchy story about Sandusky and Joe immediately goes to his superiors, as he was supposed to do. He immediately releases Sandusky from his perks on campus. Then he goes to the police. Then he goes to newspapers, all in an effort to save any possible attack on children. I would imagine that many of you would think this is a good thing to protect the children.

Now two weeks later everyone finds out that the story is made up, similarly to the assistant coach at Syracuse. The Syracuse assistant coach was accused by a former student, then the student recanted and said that he made the story up because the assistant coach wouldn't help him get a loan. But meanwhile, since Paterno shouted to the top of his lungs that Sandusky did this, do you think that Sandusky would ever get his life back if the allegations were false.

Many times in the threads people pointed out, "What if this was your child?" Well, what if this man was your brother, your father, and if the allegations were false? Would you want his life to be totally ruined by a possible false allegation? In any situation like this, you do want to protect the children. But there are always two sides to the story. Now to protect both sides, wouldn't it be prudent to go to your superiors and have them do an investigation and find out exactly what happened? Well, that's what Joe did.

If you come back at me and say that we need to jump to the aid of the (adult) child now, that this wouldn't really harm the alleged attacker, then all you need to remember is the Atlanta Olympics. Remember the guy that they accused of setting off that bomb. His life was totally ruined after the false allegations hit the airwaves and he died an early life because of the toll of the stress upon him.

Now, of course, it would have been nice to stop these attacks. It would be wonderful, in hindsight, to do the right thing. But one must take prudent action to insure the integrity of both parties. That is the right thing to do.

Cy

Yeah, poor Tony. You say that people who disagree with your take on this issue should be sodomized and burn in hell and then act like you're the victim when I point out what a maggot the nature of your post makes you look like. Cry me a river.

No doubt in my mind, he simply lost the will to live because of football being taken away from him....

goodbye

Cy, I think it defies logic to think that Paterno had no clue about Sandusky's preference for little boys before McQueary came to him in 2002. Sandusky was investigated for touching a boy in the shower in 1998..the next year he "retired" from PSU...I think Paterno forced him out then. Why would one of the best Defensive Coordinators in college football just up and retire from the game in his late 50's? How can you even buy the story that Paterno gave when he said in the Grand Jury testimony that if Sandusky was engaging in that kind of activity he "had us all fooled"? If that's true then why did PSU ban him from bringing children on campus? Certainly Paterno knew ALL of this.

Dan, since any opinion counter to yours "defies all logic", then, being a logical person, and knowing that you only tell the truth, I now agree with you.

That was simple.

Cy - I'll call you later, you imbecile.

Didn't Bill Cowher retire at age 50? John Gruden retired before age 50. I know that neither was college. But it goes to show that coaches do retire before their 50's.

Cy

My guess would be that they were in a much better position financially to retire than Sandusky. Don't know but I'll take a flyer there.
And I would add, that neither are "retired" but are in a different phase of work life.

.

When have I ever said that any opinion counter to mine defies all logic?

Dan, you didn't. Cy's post previous to yours stood well on its own and I shouldn't even have responded.