Ruth- Fake Flip or PSA error?
 

So is the flip fake or did psa make a huge error?

Or im i wrong in saying these are basicly the same immage

Attachment 255446

Attachment 255447

Its been discussed here on the board before:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+champion+ruth

Same image I'd say . . . but I guess it could have been copied by some dude who then proceeded to call it Babe Ruth.

Ahhh must of missed the thread! Ty

Wait! I posted in the thread! Wow my mind is going omg

Welcome to the club!

Seems once again PSA is not interested in facts. I once sent a Tweet to Joe Orlando about a mistake and he blocked me.

http://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/bas...be-ruth/358037

Wow. Pretty rational and open minded of him, isn't it?

Wow they have graded 9 of those so far. Thats crazy! has anyone alreated them to the fact that it isnt babe ruth? If not someone should.

Wow! Look at this! Shouldnt psa hold some responsibility for this mess up ? At least to issue a recall lol or amend their website? Some buyers paid way too much for the card.

Attachment 255577

PSA obviously doesn't care. We are just a board that has drama and doesn't like them (says at least one of our members on their board). What do we know? I feel bad for the lemmings that buy them though.....And the guy selling his on ebay (below) is fraudulent. He and I had a long back and forth conversation in emails, I showed him the link, the pictures and everything. He said, well, if PSA says it's Ruth then that is good enough for me. I laughed....What an effing idiot.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1917-Youths-...kAAOSwe7BW0dFV

Thats crazy, BVG grading it marquard, and an image proving its marquard but psa slabs it ruth. Glad i didnt buy one. Ugh

With all due respect..a pm, email or private call might have been a better way of pointing out a "mistake" rather than a public tweet/social media.

It looks like the same image to me. As stated, the likeness could have been used to portray the babe though(possible). I would never buy as Ruth though.

Btw.. hi Robert. Pick up any good Ruth/gehrig tour photos?

Please don't make excuses for mistakes. It was never and will never be Ruth, not even close, when compared to the Marquard (*exact same) image. The seller has known it's NOT Ruth for a LONG time. No excuse for PSA on this one or the seller. PSA should correct their mistake. There is my half cent.

Theres another on ebay asking $495 giving out info that it may be babe or rube with some info. At least they are presenting bith sides. This guy at 5k is trying tomsucker someobe with his discription. Sad, hope hes not a board member

The problem is there isn't 2 sides. And I wouldn't let that seller be a member here. If I know, firsthand, someone is committing fraud I don't think they should be on this board.

Agree with u 100% that isnt ruth, when i said 2 sides i mean psa opinion and then the facts. Psa should fix their mistake as there was and will b buyers getting scamed out of hard earnen money.

Attachment 255796

Not that psa needs more proof but Heres heratige auction image and discription of a lot they sold, rube is mentioned in discription ruth isnt.

1910's - 1930's Baseball and Non-Sports Stamp Collection (60+ Items). Collecting insert cards wasn't just an American pastime. The hobby was thriving in the European market as was the pastime of collecting stamps. Offered is a collection of over 50 mostly sports related stamps and an album with an emphasis on baseball. There are some amazing illustrations found and it is no wonder why stamps are often called mini works of art. The age of the collection ranges from 1909 to 1939 with the overwhelming majority being from 1910-1920. Highlights include stamps featuring Frank Baker, Eddie Collins, Tris Speaker, Heinie Wagner, Walter Johnson, Connie Mack and Rube Marquard. Just some of the sets represented include T332 Helmar, Boston Red Sox, Eureka, Memphis Railroad, Piedmont Art, Pritchard Publishing, Art Stamp League of America Album, Eureka College, Hinds Hand Cream, Kodachrome, Postaco, "The Youth's Companion," rare anonymous issues and Baseball Centennial plus others. Please see our web site for a detailed list of the contents of this collection.

I sent a message to an ebay seller inforiming him that this stamp isnt ruth a few weeks ago.

Simply saying "Just an fyi that isnt babe ruth"


I just received his angry and very guilty response. ( i wonder if hes a board member)

New message from: gemsacresofdiamonds (981Purple Star)


"WHO made you the authority on BABE RUTH CARDS? Where are your credentials....and how many cards have YOU PROFESSIONALLY, NATIONALLY GRADED under what COMPANY NAME? Because PSA disagrees with you, but for some reason you want to CLING to the controversy started by those NOT IN THE KNOW. Very interesting...but unsatisfying. As a person that OWNS, 1 of every 69 SETS LISTED AT PSA...one of the foremost buyers of collectibles on the planet..WE DISAGREE. We stand behind the LEADERS in SPORTS CARD GRADING. When you have graded MILLIONS OF COLLECTIBLES and have a REAL COMPANY that is RESPECTED and ADMIRED all over the world..then come back to us...for enlightenment.

Oh, yeah, before you start SGC is a second rate company that failed and had to sell out their company to PSA! Now, many believe, that SGC is the company people send cards to that are not going to grade very high with PSA standards. This is why they send cards to SGC...trying to get BETTER GRADES...and better prices for garbage. But, the public is wise....and DISCOUNTS those cards...and IF they find a good one...guess what they do?
THEY SEND IT TO PSA...to take out of an SGC capsule...and put into a PSA...because your best collectors only build PSA sets..and SGC cards do not go into those sets. So, if you happen to believe in second rate choices and grassy knoll theories...good luckk to you.

unreal...shame on you.."


I did Just respond.

Your showing your ignorance. I was only trying to help u. I dont care . I wouldnt say im an authority but i have a huge ruth collection. Hes 50% of all i collect. Bvg grades that card as rube marquard. Also the original image of that stamp is known and is rube. Sgc has nothing to do with it lol. Its just a fact. I can send u the original image if u want. Again this isnt personal i was just trying to inform.


Lol he quickly attacked me again...

Personally...anyone that knows ANYTHING..does NOT buy BVG....that is crap! But, you tend to believe in crap. You are not informing me of anything but your own ignorance in the business. Don't lose your first job.

Your own words...well, I am not claiming to be an authority...YES< YOU ARE! If I were a lawyer and had you on the witness stand...your argument which is specious at best would be ripped apart. Please, don't try to EDUCATE professionals with a 40 year buying and selling history of collectibles about the latest and greatest controversy. I have seen the MARQUARD card..and though similar...I mean what can you do with two WHITE GUYS, WITHOUT GLASSES THAT BOTH PITCHED LEFTY....but, it is different....put them side by side...they are different. But, I don't care about the controversy...I only care about PROFESSIONAL OPINIONS BY THOSE IN THE KNOW>>>PSA< THE LEADERS IN SPORTS CARD GRADING...not people sure the world is flat...but are not authorities on the subject.

It is not my ignorance you need to worry about...find a life and good luck. We don't need your HELP.

Again, respectfully...lose the BVG CARDS...they are crap! NOBODY will pay any real money for them.

Why, you buy BVG...when you could buy PSA QUALITY STANDARDS...is because...you can't afford them.
And you want me....to accept your arguments of what QUALITY STANDARDS are all about. good luck with that>..DON'T WRITE BACK.

It may help your sense of accomplishment in telling all your friends how you have BABE RUTH Cards...but take a look at them...are they centered...truly PSA 9's, WHITE BORDERS or creased...ripped...pieces missing...we know the answer. off centered...those cards were sold...in hopes of finding...
a sucker...and guess what...find a mirror. I have no problem with educating YOU...to help you save thousands in the future before you get baptized
by finding out the truth of all the crap you buy.

Grassy knoll theories by NON EXPERTS. Don't waste my time.



Rofl sounds like this guy is #1 in the bag for psa and #2 knows that the stamp isnt ruth. Sad when our hobby comes to this foolishness and fraud

Is that Gizmo with the caps key turned off? Seriously, I think it is the same jackwad I communicated with. You could hit them in the face with facts and he won't believe it. It is almost hard to believe there are people in such denial AFTER being shown. Maybe he got duped buying that Marquard instead of "Ruth", because of PSA's mistake, and he is just mad at himself?

Yea your prob right. He bought it thinking it was ruth, realized the issue and now trying to get his money back by screwing someone else.

I did find it a bit overboard how he praised and bowed down to PSA though. Strange.... :confused:

I own psa, sgc, and bvg cards sure i have preferances but im not making a shrine to one of them lol

I may have missed this but what does "Image of Babe Ruth" mean?

You think that's bad?

Whats the issue with this card?

People have claimed that the guy in the pic is too skinny to be Ruth. Or that on close inspection it doesn't really appear to be him. At the same time, people have pointed out that Ruth was in So. Cal. around the same time as the swimmer so there might well be a pic of the two of them.

An anonymous source tells me the PSA database has been changed to the stamp being Marquard. PSA did the right thing and should be commended. I take back everything I said. Actually, I think PSA is not unlike a lot of other big companies and this time they seem to have made it right. Thanks to Joe O. and team.

EvilKing00, if you reply to the seller with this new info, please let us know how it goes :)

Agreed. I had a good laugh reading his reply.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Is there a link to this change? Id love to send it to him, lol

Or maybe a screen shot of it?

Wow i just found it!

http://www.psacard.com/cert/21031377/

So i sent my final reply:

Did you know PSA corrected their mistake? If u go to their site and type in the psa number it comes up as rube marquard. Heres the link but feel free to domit your self.

http://www.psacard.com/cert/21031377/


....


I looked up another http://www.psacard.com/cert/17445948/

Looks like leon's source was right.

It looks like he increased his BIN price to $7900

Lol crazy

Maybe he raised the price to try and get more from PSA by having them pay him for it.

Here is the stamp pictured on his website. The site really tells you all you need to know about this individual....and more. :) He might want to take a course on ethics if you ask me. I don't think his higher price will help him with PSA, at least I hope not.

http://www.moffattspianoandkeyboardm...ggsresume.html

.

omfg...

as i am a real estate broker i can say this hopefully without hurting anyone elses feelings

he puts this on his resume ... "Passed the Connecticut Real Estate Agent and Connecticut Real Estate Broker's Examinations" lmao who cares, lol so did i. The tests were not a big deal. Its actually doing the job thats the hard part.

From his site: "The difference between success and failure is often just one more try."

Apparently he's taking his own advice in his attempt to unload this card. :D

I like this one:

Regarding school grades..."Achievement" --- starts with an "A"....
"Failure" --- starts with an "F!" - GEM

Fantastic starts with an F and Awful starts with an A, so what's his point. Like Bad starts with a B, Crap starts with a C, I could do these all day if I wanted to. But he is a real GEM.

Bill Avery

And effective website design as well.

"True success often begins...with a DREAM!" GEM

Dude has a dream.

OMG, he sounds just like a reincarnation of the infamous Alan Hagar. Where is Dennis Purdy when we need him.

So i have not heard back from the rude seller since i sent him the PSA (who he loves & trusts so much) link with the corrected rube marquard in the info for the reg number

Well, now that PSA won't flip them as "Babe Ruth" anymore, he's clearly got a low pop example.... $7900 = bargain! ;-)

just saw this and thought of this conversation -

Ruth looks skinny in this pic as well

Attachment 258639

Seller has this discription:

This is an authentic and original photo that came from an estate of Wyman W. Lewis from Lakewood, Ohio. At the time, he was a young man that wrote to various college and Olympic swimmers requesting their autographs.

This photo is dated August 3, 1935, and features Babe Ruth towering over two young swimmers that qualified and participated in several Olympic Games. The first is Cornelia "Corky" Gilissen. She qualified for the US Olympic team as a platform diver snd participated in the 1936 Olympic Games. She is the one that signed the back of the photo.

The man on the right is Michael Riley Galitzen, also known as Mickey Riley. He was an American diver who won four total medals, one gold, at the 1928 Summer Olympics and 1932 Summer Olympics.

How did I miss this thread? That website is the greatest thing I have seen in a long time!!!

"People really should quote themselves more often!" -RMY (2017) :)

"Nobody tries to swim... holding an umbrella." WTF does that mean? :D:confused::rolleyes:

Well, it looks like PSA is still mislabeling the 1917 Youth's Companion Rube Marquard, as Babe Ruth. Here's one in an upcoming Heritage auction:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515


Steve

The example in heritage is not in the newest holder/flip combo but in the exact style that was being issued when this thread was started so this is not proof of anything but that they made this error in the past. Not sure if they still are or not but this example in heritage does not prove they still are making this mistake. See they no longer make this error good for PSA.

In fact, by looking up the Cert #, PSA has corrected it on their end:
https://www.psacard.com/cert/24819256/

ITEM INFORMATION
Certification Number 24819256
Label Type Hologram*
Reverse Cert Number/Barcode No
Year 1917
Brand YOUTH'S COMPANION STAMPS
Sport BASEBALL CARDS
Card Number
Player RUBE MARQUARD
Variety/Pedigree STAMPS
Grade EX-MT 6

However, this card would need to be sent in for reholdering. The auction house should probably be notified that they're selling a mislabeled card. They could get it reholdered for the consignor for free as a mechanical error and then sell it properly.

I have a bigger issue with Heritage listing it the way they have.

The Heritage listing says

"years ago this was thought to feature an image of Babe Ruth but has since been proven to be Rube Marquard"

They are not representing it as a Ruth they are telling you flat out its Rube Marquard

crap, my bad. Apologies!!! though I could've sworn when I wrote my first comment the Title still read "1917 Youth's Companion Babe Ruth Stamp PSA EX-MT 6"

You’re not losing it, unless I am too. It didn’t say anything about Rube this morning so they must have gone in and updated it.

well, still good that they changed it, and glad I'm not nuts!

Changes
 

No Scott, you're not nuts. We originally had Ruth in the title and description. This thread alerted me to the auction and I updated the description.

Changes
 

No Scott, you're not nuts. We originally had Ruth in the title and description. This thread alerted me to the auction and I updated the description.

Kudos on the quick response!

They just added that statement today. When I posted my comment, this statement by them, wasn't there. I also sent a message to Heritage, highlighting the issue to them. I got a response this morning from Peter Calderon, where he told me they were aware, and had updated the description.

Regarding the holder, I thought it was a newer holder.....my mistake.

Steve

I just saw Peter's response in this thread. Thank you Peter, for the fast response!

I would like some Board advise. I read and then reread this post with growing concern, for I hold this card in a PSA 8 with a flip clearly stating it's Ruth. I recall buying it off Ebay sometime back and gave no thought that it could be anybody but the Bambino; the red stockings, the distinctive left handed pitching motion and, of course, the PSA pedigree. My baseball stats book reveals the remarkable year Ruth enjoyed in 1917; he went 24-13 with an ERA of 2.01, 35 complete games, 128 strikeouts, etc. I couldn't find much of anything about Rube M. for that year, so it seems logical that Ruth would be the player to grace the stamp. Who knows? Well, I guess PSA does since they now recognize their error. So what should I do, since my copy is now worth less?

1. Nothing. Just keep it the way it is, have a cold one and move on.
2. Quietly return it to PSA for a new flip and do nothing.
3. Loudly return it to PSA demanding compensation for their mislabeling and causing the value to sink.
4. Send it to SGC and cause as much grief for PSA as possible.
Any thoughts?

#3. This is exactly what the Grade Guarantee is about. #4 doesn't make any sense; sure way to lose money on the transaction. PSA is the only one who can/will reimburse you the difference in values.

BTW the board was instrumental in this change, it wasn't some arbitrary whim by PSA. I believe someone here located the photo the image was taken from and it's a perfect match.

Here's an interesting thought:

What if this stamp was, in fact, meant to show Babe Ruth, but the issuer used the wrong photo?

Just like in other cases such as the E90-1 and E98 cards of "Cy" Young that actually show Irv Young, or the T3 Frank Baker that shows Jack Barry. The only difference with the stamp, is that the company didn't put the player's name on it.

The reason this might be the case, is:

1. The stamp was purportedly issued in 1917
2. Babe Ruth played for the Boston Red Sox from 1914-1919.
3. Rube Marquard played for the NY Giants from 1908-1915, the Brooklyn Dodgers from 1915-1920, Cincinnati Reds in 1921, and the Boston Braves from 1922-1925.
4. The Youth's Companion was an American Children's magazine, and it was based in Boston.

The fact that the stamp was issued in a magazine based in Boston, in 1917, and Babe Ruth played for the Red Sox at the time, while Rube Marquard played in New York/Brooklyn, lead to at least the possibility that the stamp was meant to portray Ruth, but simply had the wrong photo used.

Edited to add this:

Also, Babe Ruth was 22 in 1917, while Rube Marquard was 30. As mentioned above, The Youth's Companion was directed at children. Ruth was in his fourth year in the majors, and was having his best season on the mound. Ruth led the AL in starts, shutouts and ERA in 1916. Marquard on the other hand, was on the downside of his career. Additionally, the Red Sox won the World Series in 1916, defeating the Dodgers. In the World Series, Ruth was 1-0, while Marquard was 0-2. Neither team reached the World Series in 1917.

How would this possibility affect perceptions of the stamp?

Steve

None of it would. People who know would know it's Marquard, and be pissed that the sellers want Babe Ruth money.

everything but a 4 year degree!

I have to agree and would add that who it's SUPPOSED to be is irrelevant without a name on the card.