$OLD pet peeve
 

You're not helping the community learn values when you change the price to SOLD after a successful BST sale. Leave prices intact so we all can learn what stuff is selling for. I've got access to VCP but others might not. And I would argue that BST might be a more accurate representation of real world and up to the minute pricing vs. ebay and AH which may have been shilled to begin with. The only argument I've heard is that buyers might not want their price paid publicized but does that really supercede the community value of historical prices? Net54 could even start building a pricing database as an awesome value add to its members.

+1

We had a thread on this same topic a year ago or so. I agree with you completely. I've noticed Jake quoting listings so sellers can't just delete asking prices after a sale. Seems like a reasonable way to make sure there is a record.

yeah I think I started that one too. lol

Hoping I can change some hearts and minds...

Either you or I did. It's one of my pet peeves as well, along with people listing cards without asking prices. That may have been the thread I started. Also a spirited discussion.

I wonder how many times cards are sold at asking price. I'm sure a lot of cards have sold below the original asking price through negotiations even though the seller put "SOLD" without deleting the original price.

yes I would argue that a requirement of using BST would be to input the final selling price post sale.

Yes. Agreed. I would like to see the sales price also.
Robert

+1 for all comments

-1; it will never happen.(as far as it being mandatory to leave the sales price)

$OLD pet peeve
 

I understand why some sellers don't want to post final price/terms, so I'm sure you're going to get some replies that disagree with you, but what I don't understand is why even the ORIGINAL ASKING price is often deleted by the sellers instead of simply putting "SOLD" in front of it.

Even if the seller doesn't want to disclose FINAL price/terms, it's not like the ask price is some big secret if it was out there with the original post; I don't get the point of then deleting it but that's just me; I don't do much for transactions so maybe I don't understand. To each their own.


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I think forcing a seller to input a sale price is a little much and would be difficult to enforce. It may also lead to inaccurate information being reported. Leaving the asking price up doesn't seem like too much to ask though.

Agree with most of the comments here. Put SOLD in the thread title and leave the prices in the thread itself.

+1,000,000,000,0000

to all saying leave the frickin' price in the posts!!!!!!!

Well I myself did this today as I do after every sale, sorry it seems to piss people off so much.

You could always pm the seller for sale price if you were really that interested, in the end its really no one else's business.

I guess I feel different. My main complaint is how freakin rude some members are here. Some, do not feel the need to write back, let you know if they are not interested or keep up with basic communication...also had that happen today.

I agree with steve...the early bird gets the worm! I cant think of anything more annoying than being contacted after a sale by people offering more that it sold for or voicing their opinions regarding the sale price.

To me its MUCH more annoying seeing cards ridiculously overpriced on the BST bumped for year after year.

Atleast my cards are selling...which is the intended purpose of the BST...It's not called the CMT(card museum thread)after all!

Would be nice but it's the a@@holes who brag on the thread weeks later about how they flipped it and doubled their money or who say they would have paid more. Not worth the heartburn for the seller.

+1

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes!

Why the heartburn for the seller?? They sold it for what they felt was the price they wanted to get, no?

If you sell something for $100 that maybe you purchased for $50, you go away happy. Then when someone looks through your thread weeks later and says "hey, that's the rare variation of that card and worth $2,000 easy" you feel like crap. Who needs that?

I'm curious why you remove the asking price too. I agree the sold price isn't anyone's business besides you and the buyer, but having already posted the asking price in your original post, why do you remove it after it's sold?

I'm not one of the people pissed off by it, just asking.


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This is much more annoying than removing the price.
James

I list a card for $100.

My hobby friend , Joe Blow, with whom I have done deals with in the past and who has given me good deals, wants the card that I have listed. I am happy to oblige and gladly offer him the card for $80.

In my opinion though it is still a $100 card, so if Joe Blow does not want the card, and Dick Head, with whom I have never done business offers me $90 for the card, I will not sell it to him.

If Dick Head turns around and tries to tell me that Joe Blow bought the same card from me for $80 recently, how should I respond.

My concern with BST is the lack of anonymity of the buyers and the sellers, and at least in my case cards often sell for less than the asking price, but I do not feel obligated to reveal the selling price and my reasons why there is a discrepancy. Publishing my selling prices under my name is not a good idea, nor should it be mandated for any seller.

I cannot make as strong a case for leaving the asking prices on the listings, but these could prejudice buyers against me who think they are too high, even if they do not represent the actual selling price.

I also realize that their are buyers who almost always negotiate a sales price and buyers who always pay the asking price. Does this matter? Sure it does. Because if that original $100 card now becomes an $80 card, the non-negotiating buyer pool will be less inclined to pay the asking price of $100.

We all have different budgets, differing ideas about the value of cards and different motivations for buying certain cards. I say leave it alone. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Buyers should do their homework and buy cards for a price they can afford and are willing to pay.

I would conclude by saying that I am happy to work with many Joe Blows on this forum, but there are a few in the other group as well.:eek::D

As a buyer for a card, that may potentially sell it at some point in the future, the last thing I want is someone using the sale price of the exact card I am selling(the price I paid for it) to be used as a negotiation tactic when trying to buy the card from me.

Removing the price I paid for a card is great. Gauging prices can be done in lots of other ways.

I get more pissed off when people bump the thread with "Sold". Nobody needs to know that a thread from 3 weeks ago is now sold.

What?
 

Hopefully this comment was made after having a drink or two.

Noel Wrye

how about when a card has been on the BST, bumped a few times and doesn't sell. then you see it in eBay as an auction, where it "sells." then a few weeks later the original seller has it on the BST again. then you see it in one of the smaller auction houses, where it "sells." then, a few weeks later, the same seller has it on the BST again. that's kind of a pet peeve.

+1

To me, it's all about privacy. Once the transaction is complete, it's between buyer & seller. Wasn't a public auction, so the deal is considered private.

Basically for the reasons already mentioned, its also just habit as that seems to be the way it was always done. The only person I owe anything to at that point is the buyer, removing the price also removes irritating the buyer in any way. I would rather make my buyers happy than irritated, return business is the best business.

This. It's annoying enough when someone pulls a random sale price from somewhere in an attempt to justify their lowball offer. It's worse when they come in saying "I know you paid X for this, so you're just being greedy if you refuse my offer of X+$1.00." Just because I got something for a good price does not mean I'm obligated to sell it for that price, and I don't need anyone trying to throw a guilt trip on me for trying to turn a profit on something I picked up on the BST.

If you want to ask the seller to leave the price up when you buy something, that's fine, but it's excessive to insist all sellers should do so or that there's no excuse for deleting the price.

I have had buyers actually ask me to remove the sale price.
On the topic of b/s/t pet-peeves: guys who don't post a pic of the item they are selling, and ask for a pm so they can then email you a pic.

Fair enough :)


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Agreed with the people who said it was no one's business other than the buyer and seller. Didn't know it was my job to educate the community about prices.

Happy to share info about cards and their history but you're on your own when it comes to prices. Too much emphasis already placed on "values" especially with all the dumb money that has entered the hobby over the past few years.

AJ is right. Again.
 

Whatever AJ Johnson says I agree with.

I hope this is sarcasm :p

YES...this too!!!!!! Too many people looking for a magic formula or instant pricing on all permutations of cards...do some work!!!!!!

Blindly Agreeing wit anyone on Any Website
Has NothiN ta do wit the "Love of God..."
Decency and Respect oN a Public Website?
Where ya From, Jupiter?

And Jupiter iS No Longer a Planet! :rolleyes:

Amen brother!!
 

Totally agree with you! The way I see it, if the price was there (ie present and visible) before the item sold, what's the sense behind removing it and changing it to "SOLD"?!?!?! Its not like it was a secret what the price was so why remove it?!?! This especially bothers me if I missed the thread prior to the item selling so the first time I come across the thread is after the item SOLD so I never knew what the asking price was in the first place!!

+1
I believe boards such as this are meant to share information and help educate people. That's why I am here, to share the knowledge I have, and to learn the knowledge I don't have.

Plus I like to beat myself up for missing out on some great things


+1 again. I bought my house for a good price so I should sell it to you today for a bargain because I paid a pittance for it.

Now replace "house" with "card".


Where did it go? ;)

I MiGHT Be a Bit Confused...
Cause EverTHiN THaT Frank Said made Sense ta me ~ Go Figure Aye!?
While BeiN Serious Nun da LeSS!
(WHaTs uP Wit DaT!?!?)

As Far as dis Humble Website is Concerned,
Franks Also Dead oN!!!

"Good oN Ya Frank!"

For the Last 20 or So Years
Dis "Pet Peeve Topic" Has BeeN Discuss'd Many Times!!!

So Here Ya Hav iT...

Legal Definition of caveat emptor:

A principle in commercial transactions: without a warranty the buyer takes the risk as to the condition of the property or goods

No Where does it State ta List the Sold Price, Add a Scan,
No "Im Taken Offers"...

So Unless You Can Convince "Our Local Peasant/Forum Owner"
(Hey There Leon! :) )
Ta Change His MiND!?!?

Ohhhh They'll Come Ray...
THeY'LL MoST Certainly Come!!!

"Pet Peeves" Will RoLL Thru dis Forum
Like THiCK Memories,
THaT WiLL Hav Ta Brush THeM AWaY From Our Faces! ;)

If everyone knows what you paid for it, it can be harder to get what you want for it. You need to realize that a house is not a card and that is a very bad analogy.

A card can be 1 of 1. Very specific in a thin collector market. There may only be a dozen people on the planet that want the card. The card may only sell 5 times in a hundred year period(if that) depending on what it is. It may take a very long time to find that person. That ask price and that buy price are hugely important to the sellers ability to get the desired asking price in a market like that on 1 of 1s, errors, oddities, and obscure issues.

I guess what I don't understand is how it upsets people so much, almost like this entitled attitude with the information. There have been tons of reasons why this practice is done and some members here seem to gloss over those. I do to not possibly piss off my buyer, I don't even ask I just do it...I am a guy, it's easier that way. No one really owes anyone else an explanation...which brings me back to my point mentioned above.

Just yesterday I reach out to a member looking for a specific card, he inquires, inquires more and wants a price. I write a nice 2 paragraph description to go along with the scans of the graded card and highlight recent auction activity and my price...crickets. I don't even get back a "no thank you" or even an "up yours"...email just goes deaf.

The basic communication skills that lack in this hobby are astounding, treating someone with common courtesy seems to be becoming the exception and bravery behind a keyboard is always dramatic so removing a price, which isn't any of my business to begin with, seems like small potatoes.

So I'm curious.... You talk about not having to justify getting an item cheap, and that it doesn't mean you have to sell it at that price - which is fair...
But then you complain about someone making a "lowball offer"?
So you're saying you get items as cheap as you can, but the buyer shouldn't try as well?? With all due respect, and it's nothing personal..... A lot of dealers are delusional and quite hypocritical. You try and get items AS CHEAP AS YOU CAN as a dealer.... Why shouldn't buyers try and do the exact same thing?? ....think about it...

I've got some crazy ideas.

1. If you think prices should be left up, then when you sell , leave yours up.

2. If you are insulted by lowball offers, you probably should find another business. Really how taxing is it to say "no thanks?"

3. If a seller is asking a museum price for something and it gets you worked up, maybe you should consider another hobby. Really, how hard is it to NOT buy something?

4. If someone is doing business in a manner you don't approve, don't do business with them. Really. No, REALLY.

5. In any of the scenarios above, resorting to calling people out, sending angry PMs, actually insulting them, or otherwise disrupting the peace of the universe is ludicrous. I don't have time to get worked up over everything I disagree with ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO AFFECT ME!

Are these little pieces of cardboard (or leather or flannel or felt or silk etc...) really worth the level of aggravation some of you guys put yourselves through? If it's your hobby, isn't a hobby intended to be a relaxing enjoyable pastime? If it's your business, do you really become more successful the angrier you get? This is absolutely NOT directed at the OP, but rather at all the curmudgeons and hotheads in general who are always right.

I recently had a negotiation with a board member whose name I won't reveal without permission. We have done business before and I like him. In this latest negotiation he tried to "educate" me as to the value of my card. The two seconds it took to read the information were pretty painless so I merely responded with my absolute best price. It didn't work out. He didn't call me an asshole, I didn't call him a degenerate, and we'll probably do business again. I guess it's more fun to fly off the handle and act like there's some kind of moral high ground in a negotiation over a baseball card.

</rant>

Let's try and bring the discussion back to the point. Don't be selfish and delete the prices. Keep em intact for the good of the community. Who cares if someone down the road sees what you paid for the card. Doesn't mean you have to let that figure into the negotiation when it's time to sell. And for those who just plain don't think it's their job to help educate their fellow hobbyists, well that's just selfish and not in the spirit of net54 BST

You're right!

I don't really see it as that big a deal.

I tend to leave mine up, mostly because of laziness. Most of my stuff is on the lower end though, so there isn't much worry about someone using the price as a bargaining tool. If my cheap card has sold for X and someone offers you X+$1 you're probably looking at a pretty good deal :)

Sometimes I'm mildly disappointed when I go to look at something and it's just listed as $sold, but only a little, as most of them are more than I can/will spend right now.

What I'd like to see is that "Sold" added to the title. That would actually be pretty useful whether the price was left up or not. (Not like I do that myself........yes, that's a thing I should work on. )

Steve B

^This!^

When I sell I always delete my asking price and mark the item sold. If I ask $100 for a card it's really no one's business if I end up selling it for $10 or $1k. This is a hobby to me, not a business; and while I'll talk cards with anyone all day long it's not my job to educate anyone.

I'll admit, I hate seeing the asking price removed but only if I didn't have the opportunity to see it due to work or whatever.

I also understand, even though I haven't sold anything on here, that if a buyer wants the listing/asking price removed, then that's a no brainer, imo, removed it shall be.

Well played Jeff
 

This pretty much sums it up

+10000000000000000

99.9% of the purchases and sales we do, whether on eBay, REA, Heritage, LOTG are accessible on the Internet going forward. Don't understand why transactions done on BST have to be cloaked in secrecy. I'm not losing sleep over it, but don't understand the other side either.

"it's not my job to educate anybody!"

Lol

Me personally, I don't mind the lowball offer itself. As you say, there's nothing wrong with trying to get things as cheaply as possible. It's the tactics that some collectors employ to justify what they know is a lowball offer that I find annoying.

I don't need a dissertation of what fair market value should be, a quote of a single low selling price found somewhere that I should match, or a guilt trip as to why I have the audacity to increase the price on something when I go to re-sell it.

It's fine to make a low offer, but when I don't take it, or counter with something I deem more reasonable and a message of "Best I can do," a paragraph of text in a second lowball offer (or even a follow-up message that doesn't actually include an offer) isn't going to convince me to crawl down in the gutter on my price. I'm more likely to just block that bidder and move on at that point. The buyer may take offense at that, or insist that any tactic is fair game in the name of getting the best price possible, but I simply don't have time to be messing around with someone I have already determined to have unreasonable expectations.

I like tacos.

What I put in em and on em is my business. What I pay for em is nobody's business, especially the ex.

I agree that a completed sale price is really no one's business except for the buyer and seller, but as a newer collector of older cards, I love it when the asking price is left in the thread because I search the archives for past sales. That helps me set realistic starting prices when I want to sell my own stuff.

Yes, but if you've previously advertised your taco for the world to see, and in fact wanted as many people as possible to view, consider and wish to purchase your taco... The minute you get what you want, the taco is now off limits?? So its "Please!!! Look at my taco!!" "I'll tell you anything you want to know about my taco!!" " but the minute it sells, no one is longer needed, hence, my taco is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!"

Oh! but next time I have another taco I want to sell... Please view and consider!!!!!

I went off the rails with this, and its all in jest. 😁

Rethinking this question, I cannot think of a logical reason for removing the asking or sales price when I delete the scan and the text of the listing.

The last one I deleted was listed for $83 and sold for $83.;)

haha you got me...


Its funny how a sale of a card is argued to be private, but a sale of a house which is the most expensive thing most people buy in their lives has a sale price for all of the world to see and is not private...but a $5000 card, keep it private! Every house is unique it can be argued as well with the special updating the homeowner did.

Anyway its up to the seller if they want to remove the price but if its been quoted in the thread we will at least know the asking price and can assume the card sold for that price or less....at least its a starting point

Yup. What I pay is my own business. What you pay should be captured by prosperity. This ain't no democracy. Out and out self-serving capitalism, boys!🤑🇺🇸

Or maybe something changed in the market, and now you are going to use an outdated price to justify the price of the item for sale.

market can always change but always good to have prior sold prices versus no info.... maybe the prior sold market may not matter for a certain deal but there are others it could matter...who knows

Yep. There are lots of places to get them, just not everywhere.

Sorry, Jupiter is still a planet. Don't confuse it with Pluto which was reclassified as a dwarf planet.

I don't sell often, but when I do, I leave any price information intact. Keep in mind, what I asked for is not necessarily what I might have gotten, but should somebody ask me, I don't have any qualms telling them.

I use ***SOLD*** as a title edit to keep folks from wasting their time checking the thread.


Bids posted should be left intact in the bidder's post. I can only hope those bidders will leave their own bids in place.


One thing I will do going forward is be sure to add a post stating the winning bid.


I do not accept 'out of thread' bids either during or after the stated end of auction.


Anyone who has trouble with the way I handle my auctions is more than welcome to tell me, but I seriously doubt there is any need for me to change it.


.

I also normally enter ***SOLD*** next to my asking price. However, a couple buyers have PM'd me after the transaction and requested that I remove the price stating they don't want everyone knowing their business. So, in those few instances, I did remove it per their request.

This is a very polarizing issue obviously... It's like gun control. I do not think everyone will ever agree on this.

I'm sure there has to be a happy medium.

How about leaving the original asking price?

No matter how many times you reduce it, just leave that first asking price.

This way people can see where you started.

I understand the point of if you get slaughtered on a deal and people will make you feel like crap (it's happened to me), but that is part of the game. We all get burned at some point.

Maybe everyone throws in 25 cents at the beginning on the year, and the person who gets killed the worst gets the money.

That would offset some thought of people getting scared about getting screwed in the BST

I believe the current polite term is "little planet" wouldn't want to offend. ;)

Steve B

That's how I would approach it, too, Jason. I have no problem divulging price information, but if a buyer asks me to keep that information a private matter for any reason, I absolutely respect their wishes.

Hey There Steve!,

I Know...
I was JuST KiddiN Around ~ :)

Very Good, I was Actually WaitiN Ta See Who Would Set me Straight!

Greetings Bill!,

JuST Ta Note...
It's Been Like THiS Fir The LaST 20 Years or Soo!

Prabably Like an Average of Once a Year THiS "Pet Peeve"
Rears its Remarkable Head ~

No Worries Though....
MoST oF uS Hav the BeTTar Half of the Day Ta Do as We Please :)

Did Ya Sell All of Those Shiney Cards Yet?

Thank God a reasonable response! I've said this a million times and no one wants to listen. Everyone just wants free information so they can price their items accordingly. Do your homework (like the rest of us) and price your items based on your research.

But the listing was posted on a public forum. The original listing and asking price should remain just that. Public information. The deal that was made from that listing is obviously private.

This is about how I remember the discussion going last time. A few on both ends who don't really get the opposite point of view. And just as many in the middle who don't really care either way.

Don't be selfish and delete the prices. Keep em intact for the good of the community. Who cares if someone down the road sees what you paid for the card. Doesn't mean you have to let that figure into the negotiation when it's time to sell. And for those who just plain don't think it's their job to help educate their fellow hobbyists, well that's just selfish and not in the spirit of net54 BST

I believe that a person may be wiling to make one offer, that completely differs from another offer that they make, if they know what the buyer has paid for an item.

In a thin market it greatly affects the price.

Think about a card that may be really hard to get. Lets say that only 5 exist. The last time one sold was the exact card you are looking to buy. There are rumors and rumblings you hear through conversations with others, that the card may be worth 30k. You look up and find that the buyer bought it for 15k about 4 years ago. Long enough that you had some trouble finding the price but were able to find it.

Since the price is so subjective, because it doesn't sell often, do you offer him 20k knowing he paid 15k as to allow him to make a nice profit (enticing price just large enough to loosen the card out of his collection) and still leave room for you, having that inside knowledge that the card may now be worth 30k, hoping that he may not have kept up on it or know what you know?

Knowing the exact previous sale price of a card is a MAJOR advantage to the buyer in a negotiation. I have never asked anyone to take down the price, but I definitely am not going to advocate for someone to leave my buy prices up. Ever.

Most of the cards I own and offer up for sale were purchased from ebay or an auction. Anyone is free to do a little research to find out what I paid. Why should this site be so different? Transactions here are part public, in the listing, and part private, in the discussion and final sale price. It seems reasonable to me that the public part remain public.

I understand your point but find it laughable that the seller in your scenario above would be at a disadvantage. A deal will be made or not regardless of the buyer knowing the price paid (which btw they usually do to Jesse's point above). It's up to the seller to negotiate his price based on what he thinks he can maximize from the market with knowledge that most buyers are trying to get the best deal. If the cards worth $30k who gives an Eff that I paid $15k? Totally irrelevant to the negotiation. I could have received the card from a long lost uncle Joe for free, does that mean I'm more susceptible to selling it for less than its worth? Maybe. But that's the buyer's job to find out. Going back and erasing asking prices is silly

It is not laughable and it is not irrelevant. You could have gotten it from a cousin, but that is not the scenario we are dealing with. The entire thread is about a "BUY Price". being cataloged with an image of the card meaning you paid money for it, and it is documented.

On big cards, yea, sometimes you don't want to sit on the card forever. Sometimes you "HAVE" to move the card and get your money back. "Moving" the card at your price becomes harder when say 80 to 90 percent of the people that want the card know what you paid for it. To think it isn't relevant is ridiculous. The entire concept of pricing is based on previous sales. Lack of previous sales allow for a truly free market on the card( meaning don't base your price based on what others paid for it, base it on what it is worth to you). Humans have this ridiculous need to draw assimilation to make sense of something. It is programmed right into our brains.

Multiple potential buyers seeing the sale price in a highly volatile and subjective makes selling it hard. My claim here is not really subjective and open to interpretation. IT DOES MAKE IT HARDER. I have done it, have you?

Do you sell cards or just buy them? How common are the ones you are selling. Mid century Topps PSA 3's and 4's are we talking rare, super hard to find niche market cards in top grade. Cards that basically only sell at auction? Cards that have a fear about what they may bring, hence your buyers may back out and wait for it to go to auction kind of cards?

Your entire premise of leaving the prices up are solely so you know how to price a card. When I am wanting to make a profit, I don't want you to use my pricing to price my card. This isn't a hard concept to understand.