1948 Leaf Satchel Paige - blank back - on eBay....
 

Hey guys, what’s the deal with this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/312096282035?ul_noapp=true

The deal is, if you don't know by now, don't mess with it.:)

What's a little $30k among friends? :D

The seller has 3 other blank back Leaf cards. Has our resident Leaf expert (I believe that would be Ted) seen blank back versions before?

Brian

Just magoogled it and saw that there are other blank backs floating out there. Definitely Paige would be the one to own (whether or not $30,000 is pie in the sky pricing, well, it beats me).

Brian

I think he accidentally put 6 extra zero's behind what it is truly worth.

Unless you are counting the .00 cents I have no clue what you mean. In either case this is not a reprint so $3 is not the value either.

This seller has sold some amazing cards, but be careful of the cards due to rubber band if you have any feeling they will grade high. **One of his early auctions mentioned all cards were rubber-banded together in groups for 40+ years.

Im not a huge fan of grading but if I was spending $30,000 you're damn right I want it graded.

+1, especially considering (at least) the bottom edge looks trimmed to me.

According to seller: "It's super rare to have a 1958 Leaf Satchel Paige"

He is right because I never saw a 1958 Leaf. Has anyone else?

I messaged this guy asking if he’d get it graded when he initially had a no reserve auction for it and he didn’t seem like he wanted to. It’s gotta be a fake... the thing is, though, he had some other pretty high dollar cards that sold at prices as if people thought they were genuine, so you never know

Only SGC or Beckett will grade the blank backs and your best hope is an A with SGC (no grade numbers) so I am not sure that would even suffice most people who want it graded (i.e. through PSA).

It’s real. At least his other stuff is real. I bought one of the 1951 Bowman Mantles and it was as advertised.

Don't go higher than $15,000.- it has no back:)

That's a really cool card. Surprised the comments are so negative. I'd love to own it.

Agreed. Seems to happen a lot on threads like this. Maybe it is envy, being skeptical or something in between but this seems to be the current status here. Just look at the Cobb BL 460 thread for negativity.

As far as a blank back Leafs are concerned, they absolutely do exist however they far more rare than wrong backs and are 100% legit. I think that SGC will holder them. And if I am not mistaken all blank backs and wrong backs are limited to just the short prints. Sure that Ted and Anthony could speak more to this.

I think Ted has said he collected Leafs back in 1948-49.

Leaf is notorious for its blank backs, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on one without a slab. There are too many really nice looking counterfeits (or 'reproductions' as the first sellers call them) on eBay in the Leaf world. Run a search for any marquee Leaf card and the repros come floating up.

As for grading, SGC has been inconsistent in its treatment of blank backs, even in the same order:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ank%20back.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ank%20back.jpg

This was in Sports Collectors Daily:

https://d8bixwancjkpp.cloudfront.net...01-184x300.jpg

I also question the price of the card assuming it is genuine. I have been collecting print freaks for many years. The only issue I've ever seen that really benefits financially from a major printing blow is T206, and I am not sure that a blank backed Plank would command a premium over a comparable complete one. There are a number of specialty collectors who'd pay extra for print freaks of players they happen to collect but that is a pretty small group, especially when you are talking elite pricing to begin with. I might drop a few bucks on a blank back specimen as an ancillary item for my main collection (as I did with the Aaron) but not the sort of money the seller wants. His other blank backs were overpriced by a factor of 10 IMO.

As for which cards might be found blank backed, it is entirely a happenstance event due to a missed printing pass on a full sheet. Whatever is on the sheet will end up blanked. We know Leaf used 49-card sheets, so there should be 49 blank backed cards out there from the sheet that yielded the Paige and probably the others the seller has.

Anyhooo, that's my $0.02 worth from the freaks and geeks collecting world...which is about the right valuation...

too bad it's off center. :-)

that's one hell of a nice card. Count me in as one who would love to own it. $30k might be right for the rarity? PSA 1's are going for $7500+

Besides, who ever heard of Leroy Paige?? :D

Centering aside, the registration on the card is among the nicest I’ve ever seen on a Leaf Paige.

Hey guys,
I'm away .... but, I just checked out this thread. I have (or have had) blank-back
1948 Boxing and FB LEAF cards with blank-backs. Also, 1949 BB and FB LEAF cards with blank-backs. So, these cards exist.

I compared this scan of the Paige card with my 1949 LEAF Paige, and this card on eBay looks like the 'real thing'. However, normally Paige's registration is rarely as perfect as this scan shows it. Therefore, I would actually have to see this card close up to provide an accurate judgement.

Ted Z

Now 100k. Probably thinking it was low with everyone looking at it..:)

My holy grail is the 48 leaf satch... but no way I would touch that one (even if I could afford it)

How about one with a facial scar? :-)

Nice AJ, is that one yours???
I'm still holding onto mine.

Hey Chris...yes that beater is mine. Just checked yours out...very nice! We're in the beaters club. :-)

I bought one from the Hardcore Pawn people. It looked real. It wasn't. I got refunded the money but not the price of grading. As far as the blank back one for 100k....no way in hell. Dude better get it graded..and even then, if it was real, no way is it worth that much.

IMO its One of those things where Nobody cares it's a blank back. Might even be worth less, at least to a few people!

I think I agree with you on this as I have owned cards where a blank back, on a card that was supposed to have writing, wasn't worth more. And there is only 7 short hours to get a bid in on this 100k puppy...my guess is if anyone bids, they "win."

https://www.ebay.com/itm/31209628203...rue&rmvSB=true

I'm not surprised as anyone with a minimal amount of hobby knowledge and common sense would have a card like this graded before selling to maximize their return. So either he tried and failed, he really is that stupid or naive, or the card is fake. The situation with that Cobb is extremely rare I would assume. For every one of those stories there are 1000s of fakes listed with similar descriptions on Ebay.

The card is real and I will get it graded. But I am not stupid. I have been selling some nice cards. This card came from the same one owner. Out of the same one box. No harm no foul. I'm learning a lots about cards. This is just another lesson. Thanks

Welcome to Net54, Meenman. Great card.

Thank you. Glad to be here.

^^+1^^ I would love to own that card ungraded, but way out of my price range.

I really didn't think it would sell for that. But I was hoping it would. Good advertising anyway. I don't know what it's worth but I will find out soon. I've only been selling cards for 2 1/2 weeks. And I am honored to be able to sell these. What a great way to learn. I am a veryl ucky man. They say God looks out for baby's and fool's. I'm covered.

If anyone needs more ifo.about this card call or text me at 440-339-8830

Welcome to the forum. I always thought it was legit just a bit out of my range, and as you said, the 100k tag was not too realistic even in your mind. Good luck with everything. Great looking cards.

Looks like an amazing find Meenman! How in the world did you find it?

Thanks. The cards that I have been selling come from a Lady's husband who sadly passed away. He had collected these cards as a child in bubble gum packs from 1948 to 1955. They sat in a box at his Moms house until she passed and have been sitting in her closet for about 40 years untouched. She consigned them with me to sell on EBay. And that's what I have been doing. The strange thing is that out of all the cards, there was no 1952 Topps Mantle. But there was a 48 Paige blank back and others. I'm not disappointed.

Welcome to the net54 family. That is quite a find with the nice Paige Blank Back and THREE '51 Mantle's...truly awesome!

Thank You.

If it's real that is quite a find. Curious as to why you would sell the other fairly high end cards raw. You and your consignor would most likely net a lot more if the cards were authenticated and graded.

+1

Smart move would be to consign them to a trusted auction house like Love of the Game, REA or Heritage or even PWCC who will then get the cards graded resulting in the best possible outcome.

Heritage has a PSA 7 in their next auction estimated to go for $80k+.

I think I've done pretty good selling them like I have been selling them.Some nice results without paying for the grading or sending them to auction. The Paige is the one that I will get graded soon.The others are getting good results. Most of my cards are in the top prices sold ungraded. And are selling better than a lots of graded ones. Its fast, easy and uncomplicated. Thanks

Sometimes simple is best. I don't blame you a bit. As for the Paige it's good you are getting that one graded to maximize the value.

You may be right about some assumptions, but you do not know how much value was lost unless they were to actually be graded.

The ease of doing it this way for you could be just ignorance more or less, not to be disrespectful. Put it this way, most of the people who are buying from you are likely not buying to hold and they are buying to capitalize on the value you left on are the table. One grade could make all of the difference where your high RAW card sale was actually a gift to someone landing an 8 or higher holder in some of the cards. I suggest to swallow pride a little and at least test the waters of a real auction house who will grade and submit the cards for you with PSA or whomever. You will then have less work to do (no listing) and you collect thousands more in the long run. It really is the best thing you can do for your consignor too since they hit you with the "gift horse" by asking a person who never sold cards to sell them for them. Kudos to you though for being the one we are all jealous of. xD

GL in the auctions otherwise. Very nice cards you have, hence my post.

Please don’t use the term “ignorance” to a seller with 17K+ feedback. Yes, there was definitely money left on the table but I don’t think an outrageous amount. Looking at the selling prices realized there is not a whole lot with grading and selling fees. Also remember time may also be a factor. Raaphds/Meenman is listing and paid within a week. I know when I need sell something the last thing I think of is:

I could get 20% more if I send to PSA…wait 2 or 3 months, then send to an auction house…wait 1 or 2 months for payment…then pay the auction house an extra 10%!!

It may have been a tad harsh, but undoubtedly accurate. I will explain, but it correlates closely to how ignorance is truly bliss.

It is likely because of the 17k transactions that they chose to sell themselves rather than pay an auction house. Success elsewhere immediately may not equate to optimal success in a new category especially since the card market is such a unique environment of collectible. He is indeed achieving great RAW prices, but if you were going to bank on raw, greg_morris or another raw seller could potentially blow away those prices because they would be more trusted with raw cards from day 1--not to mention you have greg's assessment to go along with it as well. Even if this seller has a following now, the original sales all had a fairly significant loss in value. And still to this moment, I am quite sure a few big spenders avoid them altogether no matter how much they'd like to spend because of the fear of unknown. Most members here were skeptical, and for good reason still probably are. My point being just that. It has been good for sales on paper, but when you don't know the real value of the same card graded and what it would sell for once slabbed then you are just turning a blind eye.
On top of all of this, the first recommendations from others here was to grade the cards and then sell--because they would then bid. This is my point about money being left on table.

If you truly believe this why didn't/don't you buy all his cards and resell them?

Not deep enough pockets to buy everything. I am actually hurting myself by posting that grading and/or sending to an auction house are the only answers, but it is what it is. If you are in the same boat as I, I get why "we" would want him to continue down the path he has.

If this collection would have been graded or given to an auction house it would have been equal to a "find" and we would have had a chance to see the collection of the gentleman as a whole before it was dissected. I guess I am a romantic.

I realize I'm sticking my nose into a side discussion here, but after briefly looking at a few pages of this seller's feedback, it doesn't appear much of the 17K was from sportscard sales.

Regarding the choice to sell raw:

One other possible negative of choosing to sell these cards raw is you may have to deal with a few more returns or unhappy customers.

Some collectors may receive the cards and find a flaw that wasn't visible in the scan. While this issue could still exist with graded cards, it is minimized compared to selling raw. The seller also has to hope the buyer is honest and returns the original card (without any additional damage to the card as well).

I guess each method has it's positives and negatives, and each seller has to weigh them on their own. Raw? Graded? Ebay or auction house?

This isn't my first rodeo. This is my business. I've been selling on eBay for a long time. Some of these cards that I have sold were in the top 10 of graded cards. I have the record of selling a boy scout item for on eBay for 18000.00. I've sold cards before coins stamps glass pottery artwork gold silver rugs jewelry bicycles, ect. On and off ebay. I am not a specialist on cards but I'm not a fool. I don't have the passion like some of you have. But I can understand it by the prices I'm getting from ungraded cards. I did my homework before I sold one card. Graded or ungraded. I chose ungraded. I think I represent myself well.I understand what you are saying about grading and auction. I made the choice for me and my situation. No regrets. And I still have the blank back Paige.TIt will be graded.The reason that I have an eBay business is for item like these. I cam compete with anyone. And I don't really trust auction houses. I've had many bad experiences with them. I'm not sitting hete in ignorant bliss. Far from it.

Even though a few of your statements will be misunderstood by some of the forum members as a possible "story", I personally believe you and my bidding has proven that. I will take back the ignorance is bliss comment and just try to level with you since you do agree your normal market is not in cards.

Simply put, if you think it is a better choice to grade the Paige to maximize value, you have already given yourself advice for the majority of the cards. Especially if you have more of the same to follow. I cannot be more straight forward. GL

I totally agree with what you are doing...and you in no way need to justify your actions here. Descriptions are pretty honest...cards are obviously authentic. Personally as a lifelong collector/passionate old cardboard enthusiast I refuse to play the BS PSA waiting/resubmit game. As you say you're doing pretty well selling raw and it will be interesting to see how the Paige does eventually.

I just don’t understand why the card went from $30,000 to $100,000 in the middle of the auction. That seems disingenuous...

I am calling BS on the seller. The higher bidders on all his higher $ cards have several bid retractions each. Just enough to stay under and not draw attention. He also has canceled transactions after auctions closed and relisted for a higher price. This is just since the thread started and he found out what he really has. The 52 Bowman Mantle is a grade 3 at best and somehow is selling in the 4-5 range ungraded? 51 Bowman Mays sells for nearly 2K more than the other one he had just sold a few days before the thread in the same condition. I do not think this guy is honest and I think he is or people he knows is shilling for him. Crucify me if you want guys but I think digging through completed listings and feedback has told me enough to stay away

Makes sense. I don't care how "old skool" you are. If you want to get the best return on a high $ card, you're gonna get it graded

This is my impression as well from the sold listings and his responses, without looking up bid or retraction history. Something seems off.

Couldn't agree more.

If this thread/post would've went live a week ago he'd be doing even better.

There were a lot of bid retractions on a few things I saw but I think the story on these is correct. If some of the cards were in the 6+ range, technically, then money could have been left on the table. Like I think I said, I was outbid (my snipe didn't take) on 1 of the cards.

The last Mays card that I watched ended about 2K lower. I would say the last card is just a tad rougher but not $2000 less rougher.

I have no doubt about the sellers backstory. Never brought that into question for the record.

Something is definitely up with this persons auctions. I am following the 50 Bowman Berra which has two bent corners- the card was up to over $300 yesterday which does not make sense - it is a 5 at best. Now it’s at $57 - bidder u***g retracted his bid of $350, this bidder has a 50% bid history with the seller. For fun I put an opening bid on a newly listed card, 2 minutes later outbid by this bidder u**g(3402) , and again. The second account has bids on all the cards that I looked at - appears to be strong possibility of a shill account.

You may be right but I haven't changed my opinion. The other comments regarding bid retractions don't surprise me. I will be staying away from this seller. Best of luck to anyone who decides to take a shot.

a***u(3402) seems to be bidding on most or all of his cards both FB and BB.

You are slandering my business, name and reputation. That is against the law. Bring your evidence that I am shill bidding or stop slandering my name. There is no evidence because there is nothing shady going on.
If you do not stop I will take legal actions against you. I don't know anyone bidding on my items or have any control of how the bid. You are accusing me and my customers on flimsy evidence made up in your own mind. I run an honest business. Stop you have no right to slander me.

Block the bid retractor. I block ALL of mine. That one simple act could save you a ton. Unless of course, there is something nefarious going on.

PS - Looking back at the auctions, on every card that had a reasonable opening bid, bidder #3402 is the high bidder. I don't mean no harm, but that appears shady. For that reason, I will not be participating in these auctions. Bidder #3402 should have been blocked with the retraction of $350 for a card that is worth nowhere near that. He is compromising all of your auctions.

Bidder #3402 also won multiple card auctions. Looks like a 53 Paige , 52 feller 53 Bowman Campanella. Did this bidder complete the sale? Did you shipthe items to this individual?

Bidder #3402 with string bids in neat $25 50 increments on the active 1953 Paige which is bent in half- this bidder should be blocked on the basis of string bidding and retractions

Christopher, are you saying #3402 has already won the 1953 Paige and it is up for auction again with #3402 as the high bidder yet again?

How could anyone slander your name when it's not been exposed yet, Aun.dra STU.BBS. There is a rule concerning names and it's at the top of every page. To me it also looks like you have some shady bidders. No need to sue, it's the truth.

All the winning bidders have paid for their cards and they have been shipped.
At first my cards weren't getting enough money because they weren't graded. Now they are selling for to much. Don't bid on my auctions, they are doing just fine without you
Just don't slander me.The bottom line is that they are good cards and some people want them and have paid for them. Supply and demand.

Bobby is a different Paige- was noting the string bidding to the top on the same bidder who retracted on the 50 Berra- they already “won” a 53 Paige for $370

They might have paid but they are shady. I just went and looked at the very first card I found of yours listed. It's a 1950 Bowman Sammy Baugh. Here is your top bidder's history below..:See those retractions, and how much he has bid with you? That looks shady to me. SHADY SHADY SHADY...now you can sue. :)


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 427
Items bid on: 138
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 52% Help
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 4

.

Slander is saying that I am shill bidding. Of course it hasn't been exposed yet it's not true. That's the point.To say I am involved in shill bidding and to have no proof of that is against the law. Anyone can accuse someone of anything. But if you accuse them in public without proof and it's not true is unethical and illegal.I am running a honest EBay auction site and I wll defend myself when accused of being dishonest.This is B'S. I have no control of anyone bidding on my auctions. I have been accused of shill bidding and so have some of my bidders. You are slandering multiple people because it's not true. Bring forth the evidence or stop.

There are about 500 lawyers on this board. I can pretty much assure you nothing that has been said (at least by me) is actionable. I never said you or anyone shill bid. I am just saying that the bidding pattern of your top bidder, on the card I pointed out, has a SHADY bidding pattern with you. It is the truth.
However you want to take that is up to you but it's a fact. And if I were bidding I would be very careful.

Actually, I won the '53 Paige at $380 not the *3402* bidder at $370. It arrived double boxed and extremely well protected. Also if you'd look at the bid history of the early auctions, you would see that bidder too....and wasn't that when everyone was saying they were leaving "money on the table"?

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=24309

Yes I see that *3402 was the underbidder at $375 on the 53 Paige-take it for what it’s worth- maybe you paid more than you had to