Net54baseball.com Forums - T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)

- Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)

T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...Moeller12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tyDowns12x.jpg

Listed here are the 350 Series Minor Leaguer's, comprising of 86 subjects....48 subjects are from the Eastern League, and 38 subjects are from the American Association.

Eastern League
------------------
Baltimore Orioles
Buffalo Bisons
Jersey City Skeeters
Montreal Royals
Newark Indians
Providence Grays
Rochester Bronchos
Toronto Maple Leafs

American Association
------------------------
Columbus Senators
Indianapolis Indians
Kansas City Blues
Louisville Colonels
Milwaukee Brewers
Minneapolis Millers
St Paul Saints
Toledo Mud Hens

350 Series Minor League subjects

Abbott (Toledo)
Adkins (Baltimore)
Anderson (Providence)
Armbruster (St Paul)
Arndt (Providence)
Barger (Rochester)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch (Rochester)
Beckley (Kansas City)
Blackburne (Providence)
Brain (Buffalo)
Brashear (Kansas City)
Burchell (Buffalo)
Burke (Indianapolis)
Butler (Rochester)
Carr (Indianapolis)
Casey (Montreal)
Cassidy (Baltimore)
Chappelle (Rochester)
Clancy (Buffalo)

Clark (Columbus)
Clymer (Columbus)
Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton (Columbus)
Cravath (Minneapolis)
Cross (Indianapolis)
Davidson (Indianapolis)
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau (Baltimore)
Dorner (Kansas City)
Downs (Minneapolis)
Jack Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan (Buffalo)
Freeman (Toledo)
Ganzel (Rochester)
Grimshaw (Toronto)
Hall (Baltimore)
Hallman (Kansas City)
Hannifan (Jersey City)
Hayden (Indianapolis)

Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson (Baltimore)
Kelley (Toronto)
Kisinger (Buffalo)
Kruger (Columbus)
Lattimore (Toledo)
Lavender (Providence)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Malarkey (Buffalo)
Maloney (Rochester)
McGann (Milwaukee)
McGinley (Toronto)
McGinnity (Newark)
McGlynn (Milwaukee)
Merritt (Jersey City)
Milligan (Jersey City)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller (Jersey City)
Moran (Providence)

Nattress (Buffalo)
Oberlin (Minneapolis)
O'Brien (St Paul)
O'Neill (Minneapolis)
Phelan (Providence)
Pickering (Minneapolis)
Poland (Baltimore)
Puttman (Louisville)
Quillen (Minneapolis)
Randall (Milwaukee)
Ritter (Kansas City)
Rudolph (Toronto)
Schirm (Buffalo)
Schlafly (Newark)
Schreck (Columbus)
Shannon (Kansas City)
Sharpe (Newark)
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle (Baltimore)
Smith (Buffalo)

Strang (Baltimore)
Taylor (Buffalo)
Thielman (Louisville)
White (Buffalo)
Wright (Toledo)
Irv Young (Minneapolis)

All these cards are found with PIEDMONT backs, and SWEET CAPORAL backs. Only 59 of them are found with SOVEREIGN backs (27 subjects are SOVEREIGN No-Prints).

Furthermore, 80 of these Minor League cards were printed with tougher backs, such as the A-B-C-D backs. To date, 80 subjects have been confirmed with the AB and CYCLE
backs. Approx. 75 with the BL 350 back. And, approx. 40 with the DRUM back. I expect that eventually more of these Minor Leaguer's will be found with the latter two backs.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...B350frameX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...blueChaseX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...350HaydenX.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ldDRUMx25b.jpg

TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

T206 Reference....Reflections......T206 Southern League cards illustrated

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

_____http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...yFoster11x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...P350bks12x.jpg_____

The T206 Southern League cards represent players in 4 Leagues in "Dixie". Checklist for these 48 subjects is found in Post # 146 in this thread.

Let's start with the 22 players representing the Virginia and South Atlantic Leagues (22) subjects

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rs21cds19x.jpg

In my opinion, the 2 toughest cards in this Southern League series are Ed Foster and Frank Shaughnessy. I cannot explain why Foster is so tough, but I do understand why Shaughnessy
is tough. Frank has quite a "following". He played Baseball and Football during his years at Notre Dame (1901-1904). Played briefly for the Philadelphia A's in 1908.
Frank is in three Hall of Fames....Canadian Football Hall of Fame, the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and the McGill University Sports Hall of Fame. Frank was the Manager (and player)
of the Roanoke Tigers 1909 - 1911. Furthermore, he was the President of the International League from 1936–1960.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ghnessy25x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ghnessypix.jpg

Southern Association (20) subjects......these cards were also included in the 1910 COUPON issue.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...arrCran12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...artHart12x.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...thThorn12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...olePerd12x.jpg

Texas League (6) subjects

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tSoLgrs18x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tSoLgrs18x.jpg

TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-this-one-out !

Does this "mania" get any crazier than this ? ?

So you have "completed" your T206 set. But, the Monster has you hooked. Just like those classic lyrics in the song Hotel California tell us.........
:) "you can check out any time you like....but, you can never leave" :)

Anyhow, I found this Pennsylvania license plate in a little ole Antique shop many years ago, and put it on my 1960 Thunderbird.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...0tbirdt206.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RDwoodshed.jpg

So, let's hear of your "Monster obsessions", I'm sure there are some very interesting ones.

TED Z
.

Ted,

I accept part of the responsibility for the Monster obsession. If I'm not mistaken Heitman's book

T 206 THE MONSTER

created the association between the set and the monster term. Heitman seemed disturbed that the Monster Number thread fails to cite him in this regard. He told me he would sue for copyright infringement.

Negotiations were held in an Anaheim Ice Cream Shop witnessed by none other than Large Ass Herzog. Heitman agreed to drop the suit and vowed to support the obsession he created. Below is my proof of this encounter.

Attachment 335649

To be honest I don't think he would have been persuaded without Large Ass looking over his wrist (?).

https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-ass/17995/a-1

When it comes to autograph authentication it never hurts to have a Large Ass in the room.;):D

T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Hi Frank....very interesting.

I have reprised my post #107 here, in which I refer to posts (dating back to 2005 - 2007) where Bill responded on Net54.

I think readers will find them quite interesting....check them out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan (Post 1671444)

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...RTHOBBYIST.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ackjohnson.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...onsterBook.jpg

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...ISTpage8FN.jpg < < 1st Issue ............ Issued 1980 > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...rahFawcett.jpg

Here is the 1st issue (1962) of The Sport Hobbyist. Charles Brooks and Frank Nagy were it's co-founders. Most of us old-timers have fond memories of Frank Nagy.
Frank ran a mail auction for many decades. I saved his interesting notes (from early 1980's) which he would include with the cards won from his auction. Example:
he would often reduce the amount of your winning bid because the closest bid to it was considerably less than yours. Now, how can you beat that ?
Frank's auction stuff was very eclectic, 19th Century - 1970's cards (all sports and non-sports). I recall winning T206 (Ex) commons for $1 - $2 each. And Cobb's,
Lajoie's, Matty's, and CYoung's, etc. for less than $10 each.

In 1980, Bill Heitman's book "The Monster" was available. This 28-page book was an awesome reference for us guys new to the world of T206's. It provided us a
better understanding of the complexities of this set; and, also enlightened us and motivated us to go after the elusive rare T206 backs.

Having said all this....can you imagine how some of us on this forum were pleasantly surprised in early 2005 when Bill Heitman responded to this Net54 thread....
Possible Heitman Errors

Here are some more threads that Bill subsequently chimed in on......

T207 Davis blue C

T206 Rare Backs

REFLECTIONS of YOUTH

Collecting Exclusive Series of the T206 Set

rarest tobacco card ?

And, here's a thread dated March 2007, where Bill chimed in regarding the Wagner strip...... A T206 printing question for Bill Heitman, or anyone ?

I have some more responses from Bill around the 2005 - 2007 time period. I will add them later.

TED Z
.

T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan (Post 1830610)

So, let's hear of your "Monster obsessions", I'm sure there are some very interesting ones.

Hey guys,
I cannot be the only "T206 nut" on this forum that has weird T206 obsessions.

So, come on guys, show-n-tell us of your odd-ball "Monster" mania. ?

Or better yet, stop by and see me at the Philly Show this weekend (booth # 209), and we can spend hours talking T206's.

TED Z
.

The inclusion of Farrah Fawcett "cards" in Bill's Monster Book was a joke played on Bill by his publisher (I believe). Bill was upset about it, but didn't want to foot the bill for a Farrahless second printing.

The Pout left and Pout Right cards are my favorites.

Attachment 335868

T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1831430)

Dennis Eckes (publisher) was infatuated with Farah Fawcett at that time (1980).

Jim Beckett told me this back then. Recall that Dennis was also the publisher of the Beckett Price Guides (1979 to current).

Incidentally, I like all 6 pix of the Farah in Bill's book.

TED Z
.

Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...fdBaker12x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...raphicbldg.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eetCap12xx.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dmont42x12.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...eign350x13.jpg
Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. Some of the RED CROSS cards were issued in 1910, and a 2nd series of cards were issued in early 1912.
This fact is evident by team trades reflected in the captions of certain 2nd series cards.

RED CROSS tobacco products were produced in Jersey City, NJ (Factory #10) by the Lorillard Tobacco Co. Lorillard was a subsidiary of American Tobacco Co.
American Lithographic (ALC) printed their 1st series of the T215-1 cards during the production run of the T206 cards in 1910. What is quite interesting in this
process of printing the T215-1 cards, ALC intermixed T206 subjects from their 150, 350, and 460 Series. The 2nd series followed in the Spring of 1912.

Regarding the T215-1 captions, note that they are printed with BROWN ink....which clearly identifies these cards as having been printed by ALC prior to 1913.
ALC switched to printing captions with BLUE ink for their white-bordered sets from 1913 - 1919 (T213-2, T213-3, T214, T215-2)

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...dCross50xb.jpg

T215-1 Checklist..... 96 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Ball (Cleveland)
Bender (trees)
Bender (no trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne Pittsburgh
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Harry Davis Cleveland
Devore
Donlin (bat) Pittsburgh

Doolan
Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat))
L. Doyle (portrait)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (fielding)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat) Washington
Hartsel Toledo
Herzog New York NL
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL
Huggins (hands/mouth) (Cincinnati)
Hummel
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)

Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord Chicago AL
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre Chicago NL
Matty McIntyre Chicago AL
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers

Miller
Mowrey St Louis NL
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
Murray (portrait)
Oakes St Louis NL
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith Cincinnati
Speaker
Stahl (glove)

Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL
Street (portrait)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait-cap))
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove) Boston NL

TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.

Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Harry Davis......…………….Dec. 1911 signed a contract to manage Cleveland
Mike Donlin...................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel............…..signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog..................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry Lord.....................from Boston AL to Chicago AL on Aug 11, 1910
Harry McIntyre...............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre...............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey..................from Cincinnati to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes................….from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith...............…..from Boston AL to Cincinnati on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt........…….1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL
Cy Young (glove)………….…signed with Boston Rustlers Aug 19, 1911

Hey guys
This project is still a work in progress....I may have some errors here. Therefore, feel free to correct me. I will really appreciate your inputs.

And, post your T215-1 cards....it's always neat to see some of these rarely seen tobacco cards.

TED Z
.