How much is that Ruth autog. worth?A spat between a collector(MLB player)and a seller
 

Lol...The whole 1/1 thing strikes again...

Interesting read. I don't see where Ziegler was out of line if the numbers he was quoting were accurate. The seller doesn't appear to be a baseball card vendor by looking at their other auctions, and I felt they came off worse than Ziegler in the exchange. Particularly by sending the exchange to Deadspin.

JimStinson
 

Thats funny ! If the same tactics carried over into "real life" I bet the folks at Walmart LOVE him...:)
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jim@stinsonsports.com

That is classic. I'm surprised he didn't break out the "I make more in one inning than you make all year" card. The seller may have been priced high, but we have all had one of those buyers who feel you OWE it to them to sell it on their terms.

I'd be afraid to have him on my fantasy team. Who knows when Karma's going to look for retribution!

But it's a 1 of 1 :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Absolutely. Tacky and unethical for a dealer to publicly share a private email exchange.

Between that and trying to inflate the price with this 1/1 manufactured card nonsense... a dealer best avoided.

Ziegler must really want the card if he's spent so much time going back and forth with the seller. we know that he knows that he can buy a number of other ruth sigs for less. my guess is he's going to break down and buy the card for around 10k (that's like pitching 2/3rd of an inning for him)

Call it the lunacy of 1/1.

JimStinson
 

ALL AUTOGRAPHS are 1/1.......................Yes its in poor taste to make a confidential e-mail public , but its also in poor taste to BEG for a half off discount no matter HOW ridiculous the asking price is.

There will ALWAYS be more great stuff to buy than any collector would have money to buy it with Unless your name is Gates or Trump and even then I'm not so sure
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Even if the seller has questionably priced their 1 of 1 item . . .
 

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. . . I thought they were quite cordial in how they conducted themself with an equally questionable behaving buyer.

Or have I missed something in the email banter ?

Bottom line: Whether it's listed for $5k or $10k, the seller certainly has the right to list it for whatever he wants. He also has the right to decline any offers that he feels are too low. The seller certainly didn't do anything wrong.

It's frustrating as a buyer though. You are more than willing to pay a fair price and the seller turns you down because they want to rip someone else off. I also hate when sellers respond with "I've already received offers of...." because in almost every case they are lying to get you to offer more. Anyone who receives offers of more than $9K for that card would be a dummy to turn them down. And he says he has 2.

This is hillarious. I actually had a similar exchange with this seller. The lowest he came down to for me was $16K. When I told him he'd be doing well if he got $5K for the card, I got no response.

Card is beautiful...without question. But he should jump all over $9K.

I believe this is the card (but a jersey swatch instead of bat).

http://2013topps.com/wp-content/uplo...eAutoRelic.jpg

And I have to give the seller some credit. I think selling the redemtion card, and not the card itself, is genius. Some buyer's imagination is going to run wild and they're going to grossly overpay for it.

I'm with the seller on this sale.


Joe

See nothing wrong with the seller's approach.
His card, his price.

Bush move though sending the e-mail trail to Deadspin.

Seller was 100000% correct here, and I don't even blame him for outing that obnoxious boor. I am usually a lot less patient; my standard response is "then go find it somewhere else." The buyer's tactics also were stupid; go ahead and tell the seller what a big-time buyer you are, it so makes him sympathetic to your plight, poor rich boy.

I used to get so many obnoxious a-holes arguing price with me on Ebay that I put this into all of my auction listings to nip it in the bud:

"Please do not email me complaining about the price; that is not a viable method of negotiation in my book. I am the writer and publisher of America's Great Boxing Cards, the definitive encyclopedia of American boxing cards. I know the boxing card market on the cards I sell better than anyone else in the world and I try to offer the rarest cards I can find at fair price--most of them have pops close to zero--so please do not waste your time insulting my intelligence with a lowball offer on a rare card."

And you know what? When it comes to rare cards I generally get my asking price eventually, sometimes from the same dork who argued vociferously that the card is worth far less.

Obviously it isn't a fair price if the seller won't take it and you cannot find a replacement at your price elsewhere. It isn't a ripoff if someone wants to buy it for the seller's price and you don't. The market is lovely that way; everyone gets an equal vote.

One thing that jumped at me from the exchange was

"One other thing I'm mindful of: there are 24 Ruth cut autos in products for 2013. I have 13 Ruth autos already - looking only for things I don't have."

The wording seemed a bit fuzzy...Is he trying to get all 24 Ruth cut autos from 2013 releases? Or is he, more or less, just trying to debunk the 1 of 1 thing as part of the haggling?

"I've already received offers of...." because in almost every case they are lying to get you to offer more."

The most accurate statement on this thread. They lie all the time.

It's not about finding a replacement, its about paying a fair price for the item you want. If you're saying you've got this offer or that offer because you have no offers and want to push me to my limit, that is the definition of ripping me off.

When I hear that they "already have offers of [close to or equal to their asking price]....." I like to follow up with, "that's interesting... why didn't you accept their offer and why is the item still for sale?"

Answer: "Although it was higher than your offer, it was still lower than my requirements. Thank you for your concern."

I see nothing wrong with the seller's approach...he was of
Very patient dealing with Ziegler and frankly think that Ziegler deserved to be hung out to dry for such antagonistic messages to the seller. Frankly Ziegler comes off as a real prick in the exchange...

Every once in a while you have to deal with the guy that will not take no for an answer. If you have a rare and desireable piece, it makes sense to start it high and work your way down.

I had a ball on Ebay that a guy really wanted. This guy was also a "somebody" and made sure to let me know it. I had my price high, but I've seen similar balls go for more. This guy did the same thing. He kept telling me how much he paid for the ones he had and what price I need to sell it to him for. He'd then make me an offer and tell me I only had a few hours to accept it.

When it didn't sell for buy it now, I started it lower and put it to auction. He kept e-mailing me with his "fair" offer. I'd tell him that I have a lot of watchers and was going to let it ride out. He'd tell me that a lot of watchers didn't mean they would bid and I should sell it to him for his buy it now price.

The day before the auction ended he e-mailed me again with a little higher offer and telling me I only had so much time to accept it. I told him I had bids already on it. He told me to cancel the bids and sell it to him. The bidding was pretty much at what he was offering too.

When the auction was done, he wound up bidding way more than what he offered me and still didn't come close to winning the auction. I think the arrogance of buyers has increased over the years. I can't tell you how many people ask me for free items because they bought a few things from me.

The attempted buyer should have dropped the matter IMO, but the seller is just as much a d-bag IMO for passing along the email exchange

Sorry, my friend but you are wrong. What your real complaint is is that the seller won't give you the item at your price. He doesn't have to accept your evaluation; as I tell buyers taking that tack please go find the item elsewhere

that is very right, the seller can offer the item at whatever price he wants to. if it is considered too high by most, they dont have to buy it. no one owes another person a price at which they consider fair. what is a fair price? we have all seen autographs we believe to be too highly priced, or out of line from what we see similar autographs being offered, but that's life. once the buyer saw that the seller wouldnt move, he should have dropped it.

i sold corrie sanders boxing signed 8 x 10 photos for 150 dollars, he recently died, but the 150 price was when he was alive. no one thought that was reasonable, but they really couldnt get them anywhere else. i simply told them that corrie set the price, and they were free to find them elsewhere. 90% of the people that told me i was nuts ended up buying it. so was 150 unreasonable for a wbo champion of moderate success? it was supply and demand.

a guy from europe really wanted one bad and when i told him the price, cussed me up and down a blue streak through an email and told me i was crazy, should be locked up and if corrie thought his autograph photo was worth 150, he was crazy and why are we allowed to walk the streets and not in straightjackets on a locked down floor?

I simply told him that was the price and he could easily take the alternative and not buy one and he wouldn't get one from me, he was more than welcome to contact anybody else he wanted and buy from them. i knew he would email me again.

a few days later he emailed me and said that he was totally insane to offer me 75 dollars but if i took his offer he would pay and we could all have what we want, and he was doing me a favor by going so high with his offer. I told him nicely it was 150 or he could look around elsewhere, but the price was firm. he got mad again and really let me have it again, and said goodbye for good and that hell was too good a place for us. I knew he would email me again so i wasn't worried.

a few days later I get another email, this time asking me if i had come to my senses and was ready to take his 75 dollar offer, which he thought was 3 times more than it was really worth. I declined again because I knew i would hear from him again, it was guaranteed, I held the cards, he held none, and i knew it.

A couple of days later he emails again and says that he was must be out of his mind and was probably in need of a psychiatric checkup but he was willing to pay the 150 dollars but it was crazy for him to do so, but he really wanted one. I accepted his offer and collected the money and shipped the photo but I got no apology for him calling me every name in the book and a few I had never heard before. So the price may have seemed high, but comparative shopping and buying elsewhere usually solves the problem for the buyer and the seller too and there is no need to get hostile on either part.

It comes down to what it is worth to both parties and if that number is far apart, and no one is willing to move, just part ways and God bless everyone, the hobby is big enough and fun enough to just let it go.

Good story Travis, and very true

We will agree to disagree. In principal I agree with you. A seller can ask whatever they want. My complaint is not that I can't have the item for what I want to pay, my complaint is that a seller is sometimes just trying to rip me and anyone else off that they can. I also believe in such a thing as a fair price. There are frequent posts on the card side about sellers and their outrageous BIN pries on eBay and a new thread about the inflated prices in the Memory Lane catalog, as well as frequent posts about outrageous asking prices at card shows. I am not alone in my opinions. Sometimes people really are just trying to rip you off.

its an autograph, no one needs it to save their life, its not ripping anyone off to offer something for sale at a high price, it happens all the time. outrageous doesnt equal ripping someone off. people can clearly see the price and they can choose to buy it or not, ripping someone off is hiding or concealing something, tricking someone. if people can see what they are getting and the price is clearly marked, they can choose to pay or not, but its not ripping anyone off. ripping someone off implies illegal activity.

I don't want to argue with you so I'll just agree to disagree with you too.

I just got back from a week and a half in Florida for ST, and I spoke with a couple players who know Ziegler well. They both told me this article was blown WAY out of proportion. Sounds like the seller was angling for free advertising, which Yahoo was more than happy to oblige him with. Publicity = a million new potential buyers.

I'd probably agree with you if Ziegler hadn't used the "I'm a major leaguer" line. As far as I'm concerned he came off as a real douchebag.

it's probably been working with girls. he thought he'd get the same outcome when buying cards.

I guess it's not possible that what was said and what actually made it into the article are two different things? I'm not really trying to take sides or go so far as to say Ziegler was completely in the right. I'm just saying take what "news" Yahoo provides with a grain of salt.

I'll take Yahoo Sports and Deadspin (which is where I read the article) over any other sports news organizations out there.