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-   -   No Hit Kings Ball - Opinions please? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=134609)

Mr. Zipper 03-20-2011 09:30 AM

No Hit Kings Ball - Opinions please?
 
Hi all:

I've had this in my collection for over a decade. Something about it is bothering me, but maybe I'm being paranoid.

Opinions are much appreciated. Thanks. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../NHKKoufax.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...hs/NHKRyan.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../NHKFeller.jpg

barrysloate 03-20-2011 10:01 AM

All three signatures look like they were written by the same person.

Scott Garner 03-20-2011 10:09 AM

No hit kings ball
 
The Ryan absolutely appears to be good on this ball and I am an advanced Ryan collector.

Amazingly, Feller appears to be bogus. The "B" in Bob Feller appears to be all wrong. Not close to the way he forms his B's. It's hard for me to imagine that Feller would be faked as he was such a prolific signer. Since I believe the Feller is bad, it makes me question the possible authenticity of the Koufax. I will ask my close friend Phil Paul the premier Koufax collector for his opinion and come back with a follow up response.

Mr. Zipper 03-20-2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Garner (Post 879788)
Amazingly, Feller appears to be bogus. The "B" in Bob Feller appears to be all wrong. Not close to the way he forms his B's. It's hard for me to imagine that Feller would be faked as he was such a prolific signer. Since I believe the Feller is bad, it makes me question the possible authenticity of the Koufax. I will ask my close friend Phil Paul the premier Koufax collector for his opinion and come back with a follow up response.

This is EXACTLY my concern.

I've analyzed the Koufax and Ryan and, if they are fake, they are superb fakes. I could not find an issue with them compared to dozens of PSA and JSA approved exemplars.

But the Feller was the red flag to me. Not just the formation (which seems off), but it is too neat and there does not seem to be nearly enough pen pressure. I must presume that if the Feller is bad, so are the others.

As Barry indicated earlier, they look like they were signed by the same person. My gut is beginning to tell me that person may have been Greg Marino.

I am interested to hear what your friend says. I suppose it is possible it's just a freaky -- but real -- Feller. :confused:

Thanks - Steve

novakjr 03-20-2011 10:52 AM

My main concern would start with the Feller as the rest of you pointed out...While the Koufax and Ryan both look somewhat legit on their own(keep in mind, I don't know much about Koufax's signature), it's my opinion that the Feller and Ryan were signed by the same hand. I only say this because the "B" in Bob, and the "R" in Ryan are formed the exact same at the top. So unless, Nolan Ryan himself, forged the Feller signature, I'm gonna assume that the Ryan is questionable as well. Then you gotta figure that if 2 out of the 3 signatures on the ball are questionable, I'd imagine that the 3rd is as well.

Now as some have already stated, and i completely agree with, all three are probably written by the same person...The Ryan and Koufax are good enough to give a second though to, so I'll assume the forger put a lot of practice into those. Now it would make sense that with Feller being the most common, not as much time was taken trying to perfect his, thus explaining why his is a bit more obvious.

Scott Garner 03-20-2011 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by novakjr (Post 879797)
My main concern would start with the Feller as the rest of you pointed out...While the Koufax and Ryan both look somewhat legit on their own(keep in mind, I don't know much about Koufax's signature), it's my opinion that the Feller and Ryan were signed by the same hand. I only say this because the "B" in Bob, and the "R" in Ryan are formed the exact same at the top. So unless, Nolan Ryan himself, forged the Feller signature, I'm gonna assume that the Ryan is questionable as well. Then you gotta figure that if 2 out of the 3 signatures on the ball are questionable, I'd imagine that the 3rd is as well.

Now as some have already stated, and i completely agree with, all three are probably written by the same person...The Ryan and Koufax are good enough to give a second though to, so I'll assume the forger put a lot of practice into those. Now it would make sense that with Feller being the most common, not as much time was taken trying to perfect his, thus explaining why his is a bit more obvious.

I just heard back from my Koufax collector friend. He stated that in his opionion the Koufax signature on your ball is absolutely not real FWIW.

Although my initial impression was that the Ryan signature looked legit, I am beginning to question the way the top of the "R" in Ryan appears to be labored and somewhat shaky on the right side. Ryan typically signs fairly fast, and the more that I look at the R, the more it looks as though the person that signed these labored through this pen stroke. David is correct that the "B" in Feller and the "R" in Ryan do look very much to be signed by the same signer. Typically, faked Ryan signatures that I see jump off the page at me. This one, not so much. I also tend to agree with David that the signer had spent alot of time working on getting the Ryan and Koufax right.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like you might have a trifecta of bad sigs on your ball. Sorry!

bbcard1 03-20-2011 02:17 PM

If it is a fake feller, it is a very rare ball indeed.

Mr. Zipper 03-20-2011 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1 (Post 879853)
If it is a fake feller, it is a very rare ball indeed.

lol

Almost as rare as a Feller UNsigned photo.

However, this goes to show you the level of greed. Rather than "salt" the ball with a real $10 autograph, they even faked that. :mad:

Mr. Zipper 03-20-2011 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Garner (Post 879846)
I just heard back from my Koufax collector friend. He stated that in his opionion the Koufax signature on your ball is absolutely not real FWIW.

Although my initial impression was that the Ryan signature looked legit, I am beginning to question the way the top of the "R" in Ryan appears to be labored and somewhat shaky on the right side. Ryan typically signs fairly fast, and the more that I look at the R, the more it looks as though the person that signed these labored through this pen stroke. David is correct that the "B" in Feller and the "R" in Ryan do look very much to be signed by the same signer. Typically, faked Ryan signatures that I see jump off the page at me. This one, not so much. I also tend to agree with David that the signer had spent alot of time working on getting the Ryan and Koufax right.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but it looks like you might have a trifecta of bad sigs on your ball. Sorry!

Thanks everyone for the insight and opinions. Good catch on the top of the "B" Bob and the "R" in Ryan being almost identical.

I purchased this from B&J Collectibles (NJ) in 1998. My heart sank when I was recently reading Operation Bullpen and B&J's name came up as being a buyer of Marino forgeries. I wasn't totally convinced however because B&J did sell some legitimate stuff as well as conduct private signings.

I just couldn't get past the Feller on this ball and my gut told me I had been duped. My experience is that when you have a bad feeling about a collectible, you are usually correct.

Well, feel free to save the images herein and file them under "Marino Family Forgeries."

Scott Garner 03-20-2011 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper (Post 879878)
Thanks everyone for the insight and opinions. Good catch on the top of the "B" Bob and the "R" in Ryan being almost identical.

I purchased this from B&J Collectibles (NJ) in 1998. My heart sank when I was recently reading Operation Bullpen and B&J's name came up as being a buyer of Marino forgeries. I wasn't totally convinced however because B&J did sell some legitimate stuff as well as conduct private signings.

I just couldn't get past the Feller on this ball and my gut told me I had been duped. My experience is that when you have a bad feeling about a collectible, you are usually correct.

Well, feel free to save the images herein and file them under "Marino Family Forgeries."

Mr. Zipper,
Welcome to the club!

BTW, I recently found out that I had been duped on a vintage signature that I purchased for my own collection. I believed that I purchased this signature from someone that was trustworthy, but that was not the case.

Obviously I won't be buying from this seller any more. The only good news to be had is that I learned fairly early on with this guy and have learned a valuable lesson.


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