Mike Marshall signing
 

I received the latest Chris Potter email that Mike Marshall is signing in '13.
$150.00 for a card,$220.00 for a ball.I know he doesn't like to sign.I was wondering what you guys think of those prices?

If you're talking about Dr. Mike Marshall, a few years ago I sold a ball signed by him for perhaps $270, maybe a bit higher.

The value is due to the rarity, so the more he signs the less rare they become.

He's done two signings, the first by Bill Corcoran, the second I believe was also Bill or may have been Chris Potter. Either way, his prices at those signings started at $250 for cards/8x10s. So it's dropped pretty significantly, but as the poster above me mentioned, there are only so many set collectors, CY collectors etc. willing to pay that price and once they have added him to their collections the market will be fairly non-existant.

That said, if you're one of those wanting to add him, $150 is a great price considering there is simply ZERO chance of getting him elsewhere. The guy just does not sign. Period.

My opinion is if you really need to get his signed baseball, $220 directly from a private signing is a fair enough price. He's not signing for cheap, but isn't gouging either.

I thought it was a good price considering he doesn't sign.

JimStinson
 

The first private signing Mike G. Marshall did was back about 11 or 12 years ago. It was with Bill Corcoran and me.

I was the one that negotiated the deal and it took me five years to convince him to do it. It was the first signing he ever did. We offered mail in's advertised in SCD and charged $250.00 per if I remember correctly. After that Bill did a signing with him solo and I think the prices remained the same but since I was not part of the 2nd signing I don't know.

He was overall a very nice fellow , and the signing went well. Even having done those two signings already I would say he's likely the toughest autograph of any living former ball player.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

I guess I am unfamiliar with his story...why is he so hesitant to sign? Any specific reasons or just doesn't want to be bothered?

JimStinson
 

According to Marshall autograph collecting is a miss directed form of "hero worship" he believes that athletes are not heros and that instead the REAL heros should be teachers, parents etc. ,

Its probably a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it. This goes all the way back to his playing days. In his defense he was always very nice to kids and fans and his refusals to sign were always polite in contrast to Thurman Munson (and others) who would shout expletives, shove kids to the ground, throw their baseball cards in the mud etc. depending on his mood.
At least Marshall was consistent...:)
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jim@stinsonsports.com

JimStinson
 

That reminded me of an amusing thing that happened when Bill and I met with him. Someone had sent in an 8x10 color photo to be signed of Mike Marshall , a man and his son and others all seated at a picnic bench having lunch.
Marshall looked at it and smiled , I asked him about it and he said it was his friends family and was taken at a bar-b-q they had about a year prior. His friend had asked him numerous times to sign it for him and he wouldn't.
His words were "I guess I HAVE to sign it now"

Tom H. a member of this board has a couple amusing Mike Marshall stories of his own but I'll let him tell them if he wants to...:)
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Thanks Jim...I still think it sounds so outlandish to think that. Hero worship.maybe, but the guys has got to understand what that autograph would mean to a kid.

That's too bad about Munson. A little kindness and politeness goes a long way.

JimStinson
 

I can't even begin to try and guess his philosophy regarding autographs, My point was that in all of the interaction I ever saw him have with kids and fans in general he was pleasant , would shake hands and often even pose for pictures. And talk baseball. Compared to many horror stories from my youth in which the player would not only refuse to sign but would go out of their way to be insulting, Leon Wagner, Jerry Grote, Thurman Munson, George Foster etc.

From my personal experiences at Yankee Stadium we were kids the Yankees were awful, Late 60's no one was in the stands and Mickey Mantle was taking fielding practice at 1st base he was our idol and we yelled our lungs out just to have "The Mick" turn in our direction and "WAVE" would have been nice but he went out of his way to ignore us and even poked fun at us with the other players.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Maybe Mike Marshall's reasoning isn't too far off the mark . . .
 

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. . . considering the number of collectors who consider Munson one of the "great" Yankee catchers, and who are willing to pay several hundreds of dollars for a Munson signed item (to be a treasured part of their collection). I know of afew collectors who fit this mold. And I realize that a good part of the demand is from the very limited number of autographs he signed over the years, and that certainly influences the higher prices for authentic Munson signed items. But it still sounds alittle like misplaced hero-worship to me; wanting and valuing a signed items from someone who treated the fans poorly, on more than the rare occasion.

Reading his bio, Marshall was not your normal baseball guy. He got a Ph.d. from Michigan State while he was still playing in the bigs and went on to teach at several colleges.

I think it could also due with "Completion". I know I would only want a Munson if it pertained to a certain collection I was trying to build....

JimStinson
 

I didn't mean to degrade Thurman Munson in any way , in fact ON THE FIELD he played his heart out ! A true competitor ! He owed the fans that and he DELIVERED ! How he or any other athlete interacts with fans off the field is their choice. Some are A joy to meet , some are "quirky" and some are downright SOB's....:), I prefer either of the first two over the latter.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

he wants to be different because it makes him feel special. its an ego stroke in a weird sort of a way. he enjoys being the martyr. if he signed a lot people would generally forget about him, so he refuses to sign. its his way of being remembered, even if it is for not signing. I think he secretly enjoys people asking him so he can say no. it's a display of power. Muhammad Ali is the opposite, he loved the fans and signed all day. My opinion.

If someone doesn't sign because of principles but then WILL sign when a bunch of money is involved, I think that person is a hypocrite.

Either sign or don't. Or even only sign when a lot of money is involved. But don't say you're against signing because it feels like hero worship then only sign for people when they pay you $220.

Gross.

JimStinson
 

I love that ! To have the ability to READS PEOPLES MINDS It would come in especially handle with the girls at the CLUBS , I have a selfish motive but would like you to teach me how it works ......Have money will travel :)

That is idiotic.

+1. I don't have a problem with athletes refusing to sign (I don't necessarily GET it sometimes, but that's different) but don't say you don't sign because of some weird moral high ground and then waiver when a large sum of money is thrown in your face. I understand the check Bill stroked to Marshall for the first signing would have made a nice down payment on a new house.

I am an autographed set collector and need Marshall for 2 different sets(1969 and 1976 topps) and see these prices and getting down to $150 is starting to look like a bargain for me. Here is an old article from SI about him and I think it is a good read.


http://www.drmikemarshall.com/1974_A...lustrated.html

I once heard that the reason Marshall's later issue cards are all action shots (the last 8-10 years or so, not sure exactly) is because Marshall had even gone so far as to start refusing to pose for the Topps photographers.

My understanding that he used the money to expand his facility and use it for his center. Which he holds as paramount, his mission. I don't see a major moral ambiguity. I'm pretty sure he can give a whit about his autograph value.

Jim, any recollection what his fee was? How many items signed? In other words, if he took his time and signed 100 /hr, did you guys break even? ;)

When I played against him (almost 20 years ago) in a men's league, he would only pitch, never bat. He would write down every pitch (or sequence) at the end of an inning in a notebook. No one ever talked to him during the game. If you got a hit, he was annoyed. He seemed to approach the game as a puzzle that needed to be solved. Most times he left as soon as he was finished pitching for the game. If he stayed, he would discuss the game, at bats you had, and general theory. But if anyone asked about or mentioned his MLB career he would brush it off (Yeah, those were the days") If someone didn't get it and pressed on....icy stare or blank silence.

Something I'll never forget: One of my younger teamates hit a homerun off of him. We convinced him to ask for Mike to autograph it. He just looked over at us, gave a disgusted look, and simply said. "Not today".We were laughing so hard it hurt. I must say he was never rude, just businesslike.

*Just read that SI article. WOW. 20 years before my story. 40 years of consistency in philosophy.

I don't think Marshall cares about the value of his signature either, but what he used the money for doesn't change the fact that he did indeed sell out on his core values. His stance was always that signing autographs (or any fan interaction for that matter) perpetuated what he saw as social "shortcomings."

Marshall relented on his self-imposed policy for a price, and to imply that it's OK because the money went to a good cause negates the hypocrisy of his actions. At the end of the day, he had a price and that price was enough to get him to do something that he clearly looked at as trivial and wrong.

I'm not claiming to even begin to know what goes on in the mind of someone as cerebral as Marshall, but I see his actions as hypocritical and at the end of the day it's just my opinion of what he did. IMO, if he wanted money to pour into his facility, I'm sure there are other ways that a man of his obvious intelligence could have gone about getting it.

EDIT:
All that said, I LOL'd a few times reading this. You have to kinda smile at his blatant deflection of questions he had no interest in.

http://twinstrivia.com/interview-arc...mike-marshall/

Jim,
Could you elaborate more on what you recall of his motivations for finally doing that first autograph signing, and what finally tipped the scales after 5 years of trying to convince him? It seems to me that after 30+ years of refusing to sign (if I'm getting my timeline right), the decision to do a signing session couldn't have been as simple as needing some quick cash or a boost to his sagging ego. Rather than opining as to what I think his motivations may have been though, it seems more reasonable to ask the guy that was there spearheading the negotiations, and I would be glad to hear any specifics that you can recall.

of course its hypocritical, he lectured people on their misguidance in asking a ballplayer for his autograph, chided them. then he takes the money and signs.

but it is what it is. bill russel didnt sign until he saw his friends make a boatload of money. others wont sign for various reasons. try getting a alfredo evangelista boxing autograph. it takes years if you can pry one from him at all. but ali signed all day in the streets for free.

Another fun read! I only met the man a few times, and only spoke to him briefly. I was facinated then watching a Cy Young pitcher playing in a local over-40 league (against my over-30 team) and am still facinated. His dispassion for the game is clear, as is his obsession with it.

Yeah, I think the most fascinating thing about him is how much he HATES the idea of baseball in and of itself but cannot escape from baseball because it provides him the perfect opportunity to ply his trade. It must be the ultimate catch-22 for a guy like him!

THAT is one awesome interview!! Dr. Mike is a trip... :)

Could be the best baseball interview I've ever read.

You think I could get him to inscribe a ball, "I trust me the most." ?

Absolutely! What a classic line!! Mike is Mike's biggest fan. :D

JimStinson
 

In answer to your question I really don't know, I was on the phone with him every other month for five years so I don't think it was really about money. I would GUESS that as someone said it was to expand his baseball complex. I do remember his saying that he hoped by doing a signing it would eliminate the constant requests he recieved asking for his autograph. The irony of the entire project was that I was doing alot of private signings at the time with various athletes and celebrities and the question that kept coming up over and over was "Why don't you do a signing with Mike G. Marshall ?" and how great it would be for the hobby etc.

When finally I was able to pull it off I got just as many complaints that I was "Charging too much !!!" :) some of them quite nasty. So I learned you can't make everyone happy.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Sorry, but this guy is a prick.

From the SI article posted above...
They say I don't like kids. I think that refusing to sign autographs, I am giving the strongest demonstration that I really do like them.

The guy is delusional....Kids aren't at a PHD level to understand that kind of thinking.
Topps and MLB forged the agreement to start paying players for their appearances on baseball cards around the 70's correct? right about the same time he was in the Majors...Hey Dr. Mike who bought the baseball cards back then that helped coat your pockets with money? THE KIDS AT THE BALLPARK. Who paid to see you play? THOSE SAME KIDS AT THE BALLPARK.

Refusing to sign unless they had autographs of their teachers is an asinine statement.

Sorry guys, but Dr. Mike idea of thinking sucks. My guess is that his money has began to run out and he now sees it fit to sell his autograph.

Hypocrite.

I'm sure there has been a thread somewhere that has gone over this, but other than Dr. Mike, are there any other players currently who are extremely difficult to obtain autographs from or don't sign. I know Piazza is tough, but a player that doesn't even have certified autographed cards from Upper Deck, Topps etc.

I know Dr. Mike has a few Sweet Spot autographs from Upper Deck.

Piazza is not really that tough at all. In fact, I am 5-for-5 in IP experiences with him over the years. Maybe I'm lucky but he's been pretty friendly every time I've seen him. He's not even in the same galaxy as Dr. Mike, in terms of toughness.

George Hendrick is another notorious toughie. Rarely signs IP but at least you can break him down every once in a while. When he does sign IP, he will usually sign only Cardinals items for some reason.

Rickey Henderson, Eddie Murray (late in his career, but always polite about it)and Albert Belle were the toughest guys IP that I ever faced, FWIW...

JimStinson
 

The George Hendrick experience ! When he was playing in the senior league in Florida when ever he was asked for an autograph he'd politely say "No Thanks" ....I had a $50.00 bet with another collector that he could NOT get Hendrick to sign.

One day in the parking lot he found Tom Paciorek's wallet and it had about $400.00 in it, he returned it to Paciorek personally and the Tom kept thanking him over and over , couldn't believe the guys honesty. So Paciorek reached over and gave the guy that returned his wallet one of his bats as a way of saying thanks. The collector politely refused and said there "IS ONE FAVOR you can do for me" determined to win his bet he asked Paciorek if he could get Hendrick to sign a ball for him, Paciorek looked at him like....."Thats all you want ?" and grabbed a baseball trotted over to Hendrick and we all sat there in stitches laughing as Hendrick kept shaking his head NO ! Tom Paciorek was so furious we thought he was going to deck him...lol. Finally red in the face he trotted back over and said you are going to have to settle for one of my bats .....
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jim@stinsonsports.com

That is hilarious! Jim, you need to write a book based off your stories and experiences, I definitely would be one of the first in line to buy it lol

Jim, what year was that? I know Hendrick has signed at a couple shows in the last couple of years so I wonder if his position has changed...or maybe he just wants to be paid for them.

And I have seen him ocassionally sign at Rays games.

JimStinson
 

That would have been 1989-90, the league went broke I think part way through the 1990 season. Mike Marshall played in 1990 and even he signed SOME, not alot but he signed. Bake McBride was tough too but he signed sparingly , I never witnessed Hendrick sign ANYTHING he was considered the toughest autograph in the league at that time. Since then I think he did a private signing or two and is not such a hard case as he was then.

The FUN guys were Rick Wise and Fergie Jenkins who played for Winterhaven , I'd show up with 10 or 20 photos of them and Wise used to tell me to set them on the edge of the dugout and he and Fergie would sign them BETWEEN INNINGS OF THE GAME ...is that a hoot ! and Wise would ask me , so what do these sell for these days and I'd tell him and Jenkins and him would chide each others who's photos were selling for more.

The first private signing Bill C. and I did together was in the senior league it was with Mike Cuellar, Cesar Cedeno, Pedro Ramos and another I can't remember. I lived in Ocala Florida then and so did Earl Battey and he and I became friends , He loved to talk baseball and we'd drink coffee and he's smoke his Salem's and tell me some of the funniest damn baseball stories I've ever heard.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

So you are saying you could manage this board? :)

JimStinson
 

Let me consider my options ...pour battery acid directly into my eyes or manage the board ?mmmmmmmm (theme song from jeopardy plays in background)...I'll take the 1st option ,
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jim@stinsonsports.com

He's no longer active (he is now coaching college actually, I believe) but Billy Traber was always a real piece of work. I got him to FINALLY sign a card for me after about 10 tries over a couple seasons. He literally looked like he was going to throw up while signing the card. He is a very odd guy.

That Hendrick story is classic and right in line with how he was. As a player, forget it, he wasn't signing EVER. When he coached with the Dodgers organization, I did get him a few times in Vero but it was always Cardinals cards only. I'll say this, when he does actually sign, he has a great graph!

I'm sorry, you didn't put it in the form of a question. :)

I am coming to this thread a little late but this is the first time I have really sorted through the autograph side.

I worked with Dr. Mike Marshall for two years at Henderson State University in the late 1980s. He was indeed a very interesting fellow and was acually a lot of fun to work with.

We would always play a number of northern teams early each Spring as they took their breaks to head south to get in games while the snow melted at home. This would usually be the first time they were out of gym and we would pound them 30-3, 19-3 and our players just couldn't help it.

After many/most of these games a few of the opponents would always ask Mike to sign their gloves or something and I never once saw him refuse. I might also mentioned that many times these teams would play us again at the end of the week and the scores would be much closer after they had seen some sunshine and knocked off some rust. Funny, they were always pretty sunbruned after a week.

Mike kept a stack of black and white Twins postcards on his desk and would stuff one unsigned into each autograph request he received TTM. He also returned everything sent to him unsigned.

We didn't talk about the signing or lack of very often but he loved to talk baseball. He did have some problems interacting with the rest of the university system. Our budget was pathetic and he couldn't understand why, it really created some problems.

When I resigned to move into a different profession he came to my going away party. As he was about to leave he handed me a paper bag, inside were two signed balls. Both of course signed Dr. Mike Marshall.

While I too have had personal issues watching players from different sports act poorly when asked to sign I can honestly say that Mike was always pleasent and never rude. We have had several phone conversations since that time and he is always great talk with.

As far whether a player should sign or not, I have always felt like they should, it is part of the big picture for their sport. The adoration of the fans is where the TV dollars come from ot to mention the ticket money.

I was fortunate, growing up in the early 60s my two favorites were Bart Starr and Mickey Mantle. I had the chance to see both in person and both were great. I think of the thousands of pro athletes I have encountered over the years Bart Starr, Stan Musial, Brooks Robinson and Ernie Banks are by far the best people I have had the chance to ask for an autograph.

All these years its a "no", until the money was "right"?

And $150 for him, is like spending $150 on a
1980 Donruss PSA 10 common.

Prick +1


Side note: When I was a batboy for the Yankees in '89,
Canseco would only sign if you spoke to him in spanish.
And Bo Jackson sign a large "X" on photos and
this was IN the clubhouse!!!

i agree,

he should lighten up and sign autographs, be happy. life is too short to hold a grudge. he was blessed with enough talent to play major league baseball at its highest level, lighten up and be thankful, sign some autographs for the fans who go to their 9-5 salt mine jobs wishing they could play in the major leagues for just a day.

Yeah no person is a decent person who holds a grudge against people that have never even met him. He made and still makes a good living. If he had been a prolific signer all along he probably would only get a few requests a month tops. Because of not signing now he has this backlog of people that are willing to pay a lot and....what a surprise he is now willing to take their money. I sure hope there is a hell. Mike marshall can sit there for eternity next to bill russell signing autographs for an endless line.
The ironic thing about bo jackson is that X Autograph is probably worth as much as his real one lol