Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Patrick McMenemy</b><p>Since the first discussion seemed to have a favorable response, I figured a thread on tough cabinet cards would also create some interest. How would our cabinet type card collectors rate the following eleven (11) cabinet card issues with regards to most difficult to find.<br /><br /><br />Jones,Keyser & Arras Cabinets<br />Betz Studio Cabinets<br />Carl Horner Cabinets<br />H801-7 Old Mill Cabinets<br />M110 Sporting Life Cabinets<br />Old Judge Cabinets<br />Newsboy Cabinets<br />T3 Turkey Red Cabinets<br />T4 Obak Cabinets<br />T5 Pinkerton Cabinets<br />W600 Sporting Life Cabinets<br />

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>T4 Obaks and H801-7 Old Mills seem to be the two toughest in your group, but because there have been a few large Obak offerings in the last couple of years and I know of no Old Mill hoards, the toughest is Old Mill. There was a rumor years ago that someone found a Joe Jackson, but I believe that is actually impossible. That might sell for a few shekels if it was actually discovered.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I never really understood why M110 Sporting Life's are referred to as cabinets. They are produced on very thin paper, and by no means are cabinets. Maybe because they look kinda like T3's. But I wouldn't consider them to be in the cabinet category, however they are tough--especially in decent condition.<br />-Rhett

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>Mike Wheat has a decent one (I think it is Frank Chance) in his ebay store right now for $2,250.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>I have PG cabinets of actors and actresses but no baseball players (yet).

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I think M110's have a better right to be designated "cabinets" than to T3's - M110's are at least representations of photos mounted to a backing board. T3's are simply large cards.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>?

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Dukes are cabinets. Doesn't the term "cabinet" refer to the size of the card, all those issues that fall into a group larger than an N173 and no bigger than a Duke. The next size is "imperial cabinet" which is big enough to frame and display but not nearly the size of a "mammoth plate."

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>but I think the definition also involves what is on the object, not just the size. If I took a piece of board the size of a cabinet card and painted a picture on it, that wouldn't make it a cabinet card...or would it?

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I neglected to say it has to be printed or photographic. Fair enough.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>Since the oversized baseball cards you are discussing were designed based on the popular cabinet cards of the time, my argument is that those which have pictures most closely representing photos attached to them, are closer to being cabinet cards than something like a T3 that has the lithograph applied directly to the backing. But maybe it's truly only size that matters.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Not all of the issues in the top list are cabinet cards. However, I think the intended focus was to be about rarity, so it's not a big deal. <br /><br />As far as rarity goes, here's my guess. I do not claim that my list is accurate or that I put great research into it-- so if folks feel there should be some switching, they might be right. Most of the issues are rare, including some of the rarist in the hobby, so it's things aren't as clearcut as 1990 Donruss versus Just So Tobacco. <br /><br />T4 Obak Cabinets<br />Carl Horner T206 Portraits<br />H801-7 Old Mill Cabinets<br />Betz Cabinets<br />Jones,Keyser & Arras Cabinets<br />T5 Pinkerton Cabinets<br />Old Judge Cabinets<br />M110 Sporting Life Cabinets<br />Newsboy Cabinets<br />W600 Sporting Life Cabinets<br />T3 Turkey Red Cabinets

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think I'd slide the Old Mills out of the three spot and put them as #1 in difficulty, but I otherwise think David's list is right on accurate.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Scott Forrest</b><p>I confused m110's with w600's - certainly if a T3 is a cabinet, than a m110 is also. I'm surprised that Barry and david consider Pinkertons to be rarer than m110s - you rarely see m110's and when you do it's usually the same examples being recirculated.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You're right Scott- I noticed after my last post that M110's should have been higher on the list- in fact when was the last time you even saw one in a major auction? It's been awhile.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>The one problem with the T5s is that each player is rare, but the set is so large that getting an example is not the hardest thing to do. Each M110 player may be more plentiful than a T5 player, but the M110 set is much smaller so you don't see a M110 on the market as often.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Ben</b><p>I agree with David's ranking as well, for the most part. I do think the N173's could be bumped down a few spots so that they're in between W600's and newsboys. <br /><br />I also agree with what's been said about M110's....you hardly ever see them available, and when they do show up it's usually either Wagner or Chase and never Matty or Cobb. Although with such a small sample size, it's hard to say if there are actually different levels of rarity within the set itself. <br /><br />Where do people see the N142 Duke cabinets fitting in on this list? My guess would be somewhere in the 3rd-5th spot....not as tough as the Old Mills T4's and maybe the Horners, but probably a little less common than T5's and JK&A's....thoughts?

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>I think the M110s are an example of what would have been a good baseball card investment. Just several years ago, an M110 was cheaper than the far more plentiful T3s. Everyone knew and loved the T3s, but the average collector was unfamiliar with the M110s-- a by product of the rarity. It will be interesting to see the M110 prices in ten years.<br /><br />I must admit that, when judging rarity, I was biased by the way the cards were produced. The M110s are professional looking T3-style premiums issued by a national magazine. Some T5s look like they were produced in a barn. I just figured there had to be more M110s out there than meets the eye.

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I have the 1886 "J. Wood" cabinet of the 1886 NY GIants team...<br /><br />but don't know anything about him or his studio or whether he made other cabinets.<br /><br />Was the 1886 Giants (team and individuals) his only issue?

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Hal, J. Wood (I think his first name is John) was one of the top major league baseball photographers of his day, and made a variety of baseball photos.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.cycleback.com/1800s/Image140.jpg">

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>I was away for the weekend, so I couldn't reply. About the M110's--they may be of "cabinet size" but are actually just a very thin piece of paper, they are NOT mounted on a larger piece of cardboard or anything like that. Personally, apart from them looking like T3's they share nothing else in common with any of the cabinet issues. I would almost propose that they would be better termed as a supplement or premium, due to the nature of the card stock.<br />-Rhett

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Thanks for the info on J. Wood!<br /><br />Interesting to see that he did cabinets of teams from Boston and New York. I guess he was big enough to get around!

Type card collecting...Tough issues..Really Tough issues..Part II..Cabinet Cards
 

Posted By: <b>davidcycleback</b><p>Hal, Wood was one of the photographers for the N172 Old Judge set. He also photographed championship boxers. So he obviously had a good reputation even back in his day.