May 17th and no no hitter yet?
 

Kind of surprising. Seems like there is a no-no pretty quickly in April every year, as the pitchers are usually out in front of the batters. Wonder what is the longest a season has gone without a no hitter?

(If I missed one make believe this post never happened!)

1959?

Already been a cycle. There have been 'no hitter's by the starting pitcher only to leave because of a pitch count and not go the johan santana way..

NL no hitters are worth 90% of a AL no hitter, or AL 1.1 versus a 1 for a NL so the real question is when will there be a AL no hitter or interleague in an AL park

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=no+hitter

Conforto of the Mets missed a cycle a few nights ago . . . by a single. How often does that happen?

Your %'s would be accurate if there were 10 batters in a line-up instead of 9, if the pitcher always hit .000 and the replacement #9 (or #10 in your scenario) batter always hit 1.000, and if the opposing pitcher wasn't ever replaced by a pinch hitter.

No-Hitter Trivia:
 

Who threw 2 no-hitters in a year that he won only 5 games?

Virgil "Fire" Trucks with the Tigers in the 50's.

Correct! 1952 fairly amazing.

Cripes, that's well beyond fairly amazing. That's extremely amazing. Can't believe I haven't heard that before!

It does account for it. Plus i think DH in the American league has a 10% better chance to get a hit versus a Starting pitcher plus a pinch hitter in the 9th etc..

Didn't know Virgil was the uncle of recently deceased Allman Brother drummer Butch Trucks.

I don't know why it seems like there are so many so early to you.

2016 only had one it was in April (4/21), but in 2015 the first of 7 came on June 9th.

Other firsts over last 10 years:
05/25/214
7/2/2013
4/21/2012
5/3/2011
4/17/2010
7/10/2009
5/19/2008
4/18/2007

So only 5 seasons over the past 10 seasons had one before 05/16 and only 4 with ones in April.

As far as the longest you can look at 2005, there weren't any.

Maybe I just recall the ones better that come early on. Bigger splash.

If that were true, that's only one spot in the batting order. I'm not a mathematician by any means, but I believe you'd have to divide that 10% difference among the 9 spots in the original batting order to come close to an actual conclusion

....... and nowadays losing teams are generally subbing in a pinch hitter for their starting pitcher long before the 9th inning. Especially if they are being shut out and are desperate for runs.

Yes, it is slightly easier to pitch a no-hitter in the NL as opposed to the AL, but nowhere near the difference you are proposing.

Either way, it's a damn fine accomplishment, that should not be diminished one way or another.

I'm sure more no-hitters happen against weak hitting teams rather then strong hitting teams to. These are still professional hitters though, and lots has to go right for something like this to fall into place.

I don't think there is any support for the NL vs AL debate overall.

The opposite thinking of a DH making one more spot in the rotation harder is that the pitcher not having to swing a bat and possibly run bases can rest their bodies between innings.

The batting average for the NL is .252, for the AL it is .247. So you could say that the NL would be harder since they have the higher batting average.

The DH was introduced in 1973. Since then here are the break downs:
51 - AL
54 - NL

Perfect Games Since 1973
9 - AL
5 - NL

However we are talking about getting a no hitter now , not in 1973. If you look at the last 20 no hitters, how many were NL or in NL parks...im guessing its far more than 10% more than the AL ones..more like 50%+ more..

For the past 10 years etc its clearly trending in the NL favor i believe it will show.

Another interesting stat debunking the NL vs AL myth when it comes to no hitters:

1971-1972 - NO DH
1971 - 3 no hitters all NL
1972 - 3 no hitters all NL

1973 - DH introduced
5 no hitters, 4 of them were in the AL

1974
3 no hitters, all in the AL

So the two years before it was introduced there were 6 no hitters all in the NL, the 2 years afterwards there were 8 no hitters and 7 of them were in the AL.

Still the trend is your friend...how about the last 20 no hitters..how many in al versus nl parks.. Here are the last 20, two were interleague and the Marlin one was in an NL park..not sure about the other one.. as for the other 18, FIFTEEN were in NL ballparks...

Jered Weaver May 2, 2012 AL Los Angeles Angels Minnesota Twins 9 - 0
Johan Santana June 1, 2012 NL New York Mets St. Louis Cardinals 8 - 0
Matt Cain June 13, 2012 NL San Francisco Giants Houston Astros 10 - 0 Perfect Game
Felix Hernandez August 15, 2012 AL Seattle Mariners Tampa Bay Rays 1 - 0 Perfect Game
Homer Bailey September 28, 2012 NL Cincinnati Reds Pittsburgh Pirates 1 - 0
Homer Bailey July 2, 2013 NL Cincinnati Reds San Francisco Giants 3 - 0
Tim Lincecum July 13, 2013 NL San Francisco Giants San Diego Padres 9 - 0
Henderson Alvarez September 29, 2013 NL Miami Marlins Detroit Tigers 1 - 0 Interleague Play; final game of season
Josh Beckett May 25, 2014 NL Los Angeles Dodgers Philadelphia Phillies 6 - 0
Clayton Kershaw June 18, 2014 NL Los Angeles Dodgers Colorado Rockies 8 - 0
Tim Lincecum June 25, 2014 NL San Francisco Giants San Diego Padres 4 - 0
Jordan Zimmermann September 28, 2014 NL Washington Nationals Miami Marlins 1 - 0 Final game of season
Chris Heston June 9, 2015 NL San Francisco Giants New York Mets 5 - 0
Max Scherzer June 20, 2015 NL Washington Nationals Pittsburgh Pirates 6 - 0
Cole Hamels July 25, 2015 NL Philadelphia Phillies Chicago Cubs 5 - 0
Hisashi Iwakuma August 12, 2015 AL Seattle Mariners Baltimore Orioles 3 - 0
Mike Fiers August 21, 2015 AL Houston Astros Los Angeles Dodgers 3 - 0 Interleague Play
Jake Arrieta August 30, 2015 NL Chicago Cubs Los Angeles Dodgers 2 - 0
Max Scherzer October 3, 2015 NL Washington Nationals New York Mets 2 - 0
Jake Arrieta April 21, 2016 NL Chicago Cubs Cincinnati Reds 16 - 0

He also threw a one-hitter that year & all three low-hit games were 1-0!

He finished 5-19 with a 3.97 on a horrible Tigers team.

After 'retiring', he was the batting practice pitcher for several teams for years and years.


He passed away at 95 in 2013 but in 2005, someone had given my his address to which I sent a twenty dollar check and received a signed copy of his biography, "Throwing Heat" and a very nice personalized thank you note in the shaky cursive writing of an 87-year-old. I do wish I had taken the opportunity to meet him.

The DH of an American League team is still going to make an out more than 70% of the time on average. It is not like every team's DH is Rod Carew, though I do concede that usually any position player stands a better chance of getting a hit than a pitcher.

How much of a better chance? 10%? Now you see why i get annoyed with the 'almost no hitter' in the NL.....because no hitters in the NL arent even worth the same as AL no hitters...

You can be a pitcher and have a .070 on base percentage on the year ..but try that being a DH..see how long you will stay in the lineup.

Leagues make rule changes based on 20 years of history (thus they look at modern trends as reality) so you cant just say its only 20 years of history and we need to go back to 1970 as someone else stated... Its not even close as far as how many NL no hitters there have been versus AL in the last 20 years. Lets see the next 2 out of 3 no hitters be in AL parks before we bring this back up.

I don't know what you mean by worth. In 2016 Prince Fielder played 89 games total, 80 of which he served as DH. He hit 212 with a 292 OBP.

If he was a Starting Pitcher, that would make him one of the best Starting Pitcher hitters in the past 20 years. How many starting pitchers in the NL last year had a higher than 292 OBP. (Madison Baumgarner's career OBP is .233 and career best is .286) I am sure I can point to some DH's that hit .300+ as well and can point to many Starting pitchers that hit under .100.... I can also point to some number 8 hitters in NL lineups that were pitched around more than number 8 hitters in AL lineups due to the pitcher hitting in the 1-6th innings..

Not many DH's hit 9th or 8th? How many starting pitchers hit 9th or 8th? Why do so many starting pitchers hit 9th? Is it because they are great hitters? There are at least more than a few DH's hitting cleanup or 5th...

at least 16 of the last 20 no hitters (thats a large sample size) have been in NL parks.. like i said ..lets wait to see when the next 2 out of 3 no hitters are in AL parks before analyze more..

I just don't think the DH is as good as you think. Greg Vaughn's career as a DH (over 1600 PA's) amounted to a 218 average. Reggie hit 227 as a DH. Adam Dunn hit 200 as a DH. Cecil Cooper hit 261 with a 298 OBP. The DH isn't always a good player.

Adam Dunn walked a lot. Cecil Coopers OBP still destroyed almost every starting pitcher obp in the last 20 years. The fact that the DH usually takes more pitches to get out means something for the pitch count as well. There are no starting pitchers that could take the job away from a DH. So the worst DH in the world is still better than the best SP hitter in terms of being a hitter. If you want to point to 1 or 2 players you can go ahead but still that would be 99% still in favor of the DH. I would imagine that would at least account for making it more than just a little harder to get a no hitter in the AL versus NL......16 or 17 of the last 20 hitters have been in NL parks. Pitchers over the years have become worse hitters as well as the game has become more specialized as well. Plus pitch counts are more important now. There may of been some AL no hitters in the 1970s with a pitch count that normally would have had them removed from the game. The game is different now.

David Ortiz was pretty good as a DH. Matt Holiday/Pujols and many others blow away even the very best starting pitcher hitter. By giving the NL no hitter 90% of the value of a AL no hitter that does account that the DH isnt always good. 10% is not a lot considering all the factors.

Chase Anderson goes 7 innings of no hit ball? Yet another almost NL no hitter C'mon


Plus 1 hitters with no walks are a lot more impressive than no hitters with 5 walks....chase had at least 3 walks yesterday..

So if I am reading this thread correctly, only no-hitters in the American League after the institution of the DH in 1973 are valid.

Therefore Sandy Koufax has zero career no-hitters.

Nolan Ryan had a combination of AL no-hitters and NL almost no-hitters.

I'm not sure if any HOF pitchers have mention of no-hitters on their plaque in Cooperstown, but if so, inserting the word "almost" on their plaque could be problematic. Would an asterisk (a la Maris) be sufficient?

And what about poor Johnny Vandermeer. Would his double no-hitter be wiped off the books completely or would it be considered an "almost" double no-hitter.

In summation, I would be willing to bet that not one of the proponents of the DH rule change for the American League realized that their proposal would invalidate all prior no-hitters.

I say "long live the Almost No-Hitter".

For clarity of the linguistics involved, I would propose a different term for no-hitters broken up in the late innings, and would suggest calling these "Nearly No-Nos".

Now you're getting wound up about non-no hit games? LOL! :D


I think I'm going to start an autograph collage. All pitchers (AL only) who had their no-hitters broken up after 7 innings.

No you are not reading it correct. I said after 1973, that NL no hitters are worth MORE than AL no hitters (from 1973 and on) Sandy Koufax is safe.. I proposed 10% more value to the NL no hitter or you can have AL no hitters be worth 10% less. Pitch counts and various other factors I contend are showing that NL no hitters are trending to be much easier. (at least 16 of the last 20 no hitters have been in NL Parks).

It was last year with all of the 'nearly no-no's that occurred in the NL is what made me come up with this. Plus the chris hestons of the world

So NL no-hitters are worth 10% more, because the pitchers have to face opposing pitchers instead of DHs. Gosh, I would have thought just the opposite. Are you sure?

Your analysis gives me a headache. I am old school and have been opposed to the DH for 44 years. Why on earth do the two major leagues playing the same game, baseball, have to have different rules.

Packer touchdowns should worth 6 points, but Patriot touchdowns should be worth 5 points.:eek:

Raise the basket to eleven feet for LeBron and lower it to nine feet for Curry. Curry is shorter after all.;)

sorry, NL no hitters are worth less is what i probably said on 20 prior posts...thats what i meant.

Now that you bring up Curry, i do think the 3 pointers are hurting the NBA as well. You always have the 3 point shot available. Really hard to guard inside and outside. There should e some type of a 3 second rule for those guys that just wait within 2 feet beyind the 3 point line. Just too much of a reward for jacking up 3s. .

I used to email with Brian Holman who lost a perfect game with 2 out in the bottom of the 9th. He gave up a homer to Ken Phelps(his last) before striking out Ricky Henderson to finish the game.

I have a few of his cards autographed, if anybody would like one PM me your address.

Oh no! Somebody called me on my bluff. :D

Edinson Volquez...
 

breaks the drought.

Well at least 9/10th of a no hitter cause its in the NL.....18 of the last 21 now in NL ballpark.... 1 hitter with no walks still better as well

Not if that 1 hit was a HR and it cost you the game.

On the first play of the game Volquez collided with the runner at first base, twisted his ankle, and it looked like he would have to come out of the game. He walked it off and then proceeded to face the minimum 27 batters through 9 innings. Pretty amazing game.

First there was Tommy John surgery, a universally accepted eponym, and now there is a proposed rule change known as the "Jake NL No No Equivalency Option" which reads as follows:

"Whereas a National League pitcher benefits from facing up to three unqualified hitters, the opposing pitchers, during a nine inning no-hitter instead of three accomplished designated batsmen that an AL pitcher must face to achieve his no-hitter and no doubt the NL pitcher must feel inferior to his AL counterpart, He shall heretofore be granted the option of facing three additional batters. The result of these at bats shall not impact the outcome of the game, but merely serve to verify the equivalency of the "tainted" NL No No to its AL counterpart.

If any of the three additional batsmen should reach first base safely as the result of a hit, the game ends and the "tainted" NL No No shall remain tainted.

The hit that ends the game in this manner shall not be designated as a "walk off" single, but rather a "Jake off" single, the first Net54 eponym that will proudly take its place beside Tommy John's elbow.";)

What if it happens during interleague play? Or when the regular DH is injured? Or when the moon is full?

I agree.....that would be a good idea..

no way Volquez gets a no-no in the American League....its really not fair to count how many no-hitters people get in the NL versus AL counterparts when factoring who had a better career...... 18 of the last 21 no hitters in NL parks...plus the 'almost no-no' occurs much more frequently in the NL......lets see two AL no hitters go back to back and ill reconsider....it wont happen..

Interleague play issue easy....it only applies if the game is in an NL parks...

on 2nd thought, keep ignoring...

Did you realize that I am smarter than I look (that wouldn't be difficult) and that Edison Volquez is the first pitcher to toss a no-no after undergoing Tommy John surgery?

I also was a resident with Dr. Lewis Yocum, the Angels team physician for 36 years who passed away in 2013, a year before his boss Dr. Frank Jobe, both of whom are smiling in their graves after Edison's no-no.

Now you know the rest of the story.:)

some good company there frank!

Mad Max on the Nationals yesterday got a famous almost no- hitter which would of been worth .9 of a AL no hitter..

Correct me if I'm wrong, it seems pitching as a whole is not very good this season.

There's NO shortage of home runs being hit though. Looks like the wacky hr totals are back.

Juiced ball? I mean, since the players can't juice anymore..

What if the pitching was so poor on the opposing side that a pinch hitter was used each time the pitcher came to bat. Would the NL No-hitter qualify as an actual No-hitter?

Yes...once you see that happen let me know. Ill also let you know when the next guy gets a cycle because he stopped at 3rd after hitting a ball over the wall so he could get a 'triple' and the elusive cycle instead of just 2 homers and double and a single...

Foltynewicz is 3 outs away from a No no!