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Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>In the last few days I have been sadden by events that have led me to this decision. I no long want to be associated with Pre War collectors and the cards themselves. If you click on my link you will find about 120 Graded T206's that are for sale. This is not a fire sale as money is not the reason I am leaving the hobby. I understand this should be posted in the B/S/T thread and if Leon is kind enough to let this run for a few days becasue I am here to post the reasons.<br /><br />Integrity is a very important part of life and if you have lost faith in the people around you, there is no reason to associate with them any longer. <br />I truly believe that there are some fine people in the hobby but with all the shady dealings , scammers and inability or willingness to out obviously shady auction, I find my self disappointed in people that I trusted would do the right thing. <br /><br />Therefore, I will pursure other avenues that hopefully have a strong moral integrity and a hobby that has less contriversy around every corner and people that have the same moral values that I think I possess. <br /><br />Thank you for listening and I hope everyone here reads between the lines. Please don't e-mail me for details at this time, but in some future thread, (which I will not be posting anymore) I may pop my head in and let members decide if a certain group of people didn't do the right thing. <br /><br />PLease take a look at my cards, it's a wonderful collection that took me many years to assemble and was assemble for eye appeal, not what some $7.50 grader on crack thought. <br /><br />It's been a great ride. I've enjoyed many people here and had many laughs, expecially the Seinfeld threads, the "WE" threads and Jays bluntly honest opinions. Have had many deal go very right and I thank you all. Joe<br /><br />Edited to add: All the NON portriat cards will be sold first. Good luck.<br />Edited for spelling mistakes, fat fingers and just plan poor posting...sorry.<br /><br /> <a href="http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/2dueces/T206%20COLLECTION/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m80/2dueces/T206%20COLLECTION/</a> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: <b>E, Daniel</b><p>Strangely enough I've been thinking the same myself recently (selling up the collection), though for completely different reasons.....there's a piece of lake front property I know my kids and wife would get a whole lot more joy out of than the cards - so I'm kind of vacillating..<br /><br />All the very best with your collecting as it never really leaves the blood, just takes different forms <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>!<br /><br />Daniel

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Of course, it would be better for Net54 if you both stayed. However, Daniel's reason for leaving is more understandable because you would like to do more for your family, that makes sense.<br /><br />Joe,<br /><br />Think twice about your reasons though. If you believe the hobby is becoming more corrupt, I couldn't agree with you more, however if every hobbyist with integrity decided that they didn't want to deal with it...the hobby would go down the tube faster. <br /><br />Even if you decide not to post, don't give up on the hobby, that is the only way prewar vintage is going to rebound.<br /><br />Best of luck.<br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Joe- My suggestion is to just take a 6 month breather from here and collecting in general. If you still feel the same, sell your cards. I took a breather a couple of years ago when a couple of miscreants (neither of them posts here regularly or at all anymore) took pot shots at me. I took a deep breath, realized how short life was, and got back in the saddle. I am glad I didn't dispose of my collection and you might feel the same way too. <br />I look at these cards as history and I love history, especially the history of America in the early 20th century. It's more than slabs, who has the prettiest cards, what the investment potential is, it's about history and also about the many friends I have made while collecting.<br />Give it some time....<br />Tbob

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14BZVmbaEY" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14BZVmbaEY</a>

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>"Therefore, I will pursure other avenues that hopefully have a strong moral integrity and a hobby that has less contriversy around every corner and people that have the same moral values that I think I possess."<br /><br />You will have to go where there is no money involved, and even there you are likely to run into people with character flaws. But the more that you involve a monetary value in your hobby, the greater the incentive will be to take advantage of people. PSA and SGC were founded upon, and reap the rewards of, the underbelly of the card industry. <br /><br />I left the hobby because of this in the 1980's; but returned with my confidence in PSA and now SGC. I now only make big purchases if SGC holders the card; not only do I like the holders and their grading consistency, but they have a buyback guarantee. Everything else is the Wild West to me, and out there you take your chances, without expecting too much from people.<br /><br />There is a real sentiment on this Board to clean up the hobby and it is certainly an honorable goal. But let us not forget that we are dealing with money and real people, with incentives that can bring out the worst in people -- many different kinds of people, from all walks of life today, and over the course of the past 100 years, since these little cardboard treasures were created.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave Hornish</b><p>Joe-never got to really know you here but good luck. I have always been touched by the tribute to your dad at the end of all your posts.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hi Joe- I think all of the regular posters on the board have gone through what you are going through at one time or another, and I echo Bob's words that it's always good to take a breather. You may decide sometime down the road you will want to come back again. You always posted intelligently and I felt you were one of the good guys.<br /><br />But if you really go ahead and sell your collection, you may regret it one day and it will be difficult to replace.<br /><br />Hope you do come back again sometime soon. Regards, Barry

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Posted By: <b>David</b><p>Sad to hear the hobby is losing a good guy. I honestly get feed up with all the problems with card collecting but I have a love for baseball that I pursue through cards. The hobby does have a good amount of crooks in it but it has more great people. Someone is more likely to tell of a bad experience than a good one. Although the scammers are talked about a lot, all the good people and forthright deals get left unspoken. I truly hope you find another avenue that you enjoy, but there will be the bad people there too. One thing that lead me deeper into collecting and sticking around the board was the Painted Turtle charity auction the board participated in last year. Although the hobby does have its problems, there is a lot of good out there. Good luck to you Joe on whatever you pursue.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Joe, if it's not about money and you have already said that it isn't then I concur with Bob. Just put them out of site for a while and I guarantee you that you will come back invigorated. If you sell them you may regret it. what's the harm in waiting a few months or however long it takes?

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Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Ditto what T206 wrote. Unless your new hobby is something akin to taking strolls in the park or reading a good book (nothing wrong w/either, by the way) you're bound to run into shady people.<br /><br />Good luck in your new pursuit(s).<br /><br />Howard

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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns49XmuNQ4I" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns49XmuNQ4I</a>

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Can't reinforce the "take a deep breath" advice, strongly enough. We all have our dark moments, but must allow time for the clouds to clear. Don't mean to sound trite, but there is validity to the saying "act in haste, repent at leisure". You come across as one of the good guys, Joe and I wish you the best, whatever your ultimate decision.<br /><br />Be Well,<br />Bob

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Definately sad to hear Joe. Your for sure one of the few good guys around. Also one of the very few that would knowingly not bid on something I was bidding on....good luck whichever route you go.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Dave, there are more than a few good guys right here in this chatroom. I know...I've dealt with LOTS of them and have never had a bad deal...well except for my first one and that guy doesn't post here anymore and I'm not sure if he ever posted here much at all. I can not tell you how many people email me and let me know they saw something on ebay or at the National. I have had guys send me stuff for free out of the blue and I have paid it forward. This group of guys and gals (Hi Joann) are the best in the hobby bar none.

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Posted By: <b>bruce Dorskind</b><p><br />We see things quite differently. <br /><br />Whilst the "Hobby" has a number of participants who , "lack integrity," <br />there is not a single institution in the United States that is<br /> not plagued with a lack of integrity.<br /><br />Few institutions in the world face as many moral and integrity issues<br />as the Catholic Church. The very foundation of its leadership committed<br />thousands of immoral acts against the most helpless element of our<br />society...yet those who attend Chuch have not abandoned it...they are<br />working to make it better.<br /><br />No Presidency in the history of our great country has escaped without<br />some notable instance of corruption...yet fewer Americans give up their<br />citizenship to move to another country than any other large country in<br />the world.<br /><br />Baseball Cards has never been a sleepy, low key hobby. We have collected ultra<br />high grade cards for three decades and we witnessed slicing and dicing<br />of key cards in 1976.. it is only the web and society's enhanced communications<br />systems that brings the issues to the front page.<br /><br />If you express an opinion, the attack machine will always be there...you can<br />be running for President of the US, Dog Keeper or promoting the virtures<br />of PSA, it does not matter.<br /><br />The world is cut throat...it is kill or be killed...in politics, in war, on Wall Street<br />and in collecting rare baseball cards.<br /><br />If one does not have the courage to take the heat, then go off quietly into the sunset.<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />America's Toughest Want List<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />I agree with Tbob (smart guy) take a breather, you will be even more bummed knowing you sold off years of hard work and fun, because of a couple of “jabrones” getting under your skin.<br /><br /><br />I don’t know what went down. But if it would make you fell any better I can always do a Photoshop pic of these guys in a compromising position….sort of like a Photoshop gun for hire. Perhaps I should take out a banner ad for my services????<br /><br />Good luck with your choice.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Except for the last sentence that was well put Bruce. As long as I've been collecting there have been shysters in the hobby. I remember when you had to worry about a resealed wax pack....you couldn't buy a rack pack that wasn't searched and someone was counterfeiting 1984 Fleer Update cards of Kirby Puckett.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Bruce, when you typed that did you have the giant flag from the movie Patton behind you??

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>While baseball card collecting is competitive, I haven't seen anyone killed yet over a nice T206.

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Posted By: <b>jeffdrum</b><p>Unfortunately what Bruce says is true. I was waiting for ..........."was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?".....................

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>How nice a T206 are we talking here??<br /><br />Don't push me Sloate! <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/-45.gif">

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Thanks a lot Barry...not all of us are finished reading "The Marinoli Treasure".<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>John,<br /><br />That's a great rendition of a boxing match between you and Barry. It makes my day. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I met John and he's twice my size...I concede! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Thanks, Peter sadly I think Sloate would take me he looks like a scrapper!

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>You wouldn't hit a 55 year old who wears glasses??

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>it's the kick below the belt that you have to worry about <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Jimmy</b><p>I understand your concerns and I wish you the best, there are ups and downs to everything in life even a hobby. The fact is you are right in some ways, but you should not let people turn you off on a hobby that is fun and exciting. If I was able to find all that I wanted in this hobby, I would quit. The number one thing that keeps me going is finding items for my collection and helping dealers and collectors. I would never let a few bad apples get the best of me on something such as collecting, the same thing happens with coins, stamps and antiques. <br /><br />Take Care<br /><br />Jimmy

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Posted By: <b>Joseph</b><p>Congratulations, Joe. You have had, what they call in one trade, a breakthrough...in another, a revelation. I often wish I could get there too, but collecting is so deeply in my blood. If it ain't fun, why bother. I wish you good luck.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>"If one does not have the courage to take the heat, then go off quietly into the sunset".<br /><br />Bruce Dorskind<br />Too Stupid to be One Person<br />

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Posted By: <b>John J. Grillo</b><p>IMO, if your are gonna leave, just leave, spare the drama...it's only a hobby, lighten up and have fun with it.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>"The world is cut throat...it is kill or be killed...in politics, in war, on Wall Street<br />and in collecting rare baseball cards."<br /><br />Plenty of us do just fine minding our own business.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Brian Collie</b><p>I consider myself a passionate collector of baseball cards and have enjoyed the hobby for many years. As I am sure some of you can relate, I got the bug in the 80s, drifted away during college, only to come back now that I have more money to spare. I am currently working on a T202 PSA 5 and above set as well as collecting all T206 HOF PSA 5 and above (minus the big ones of course) and am having a lot of fun.<br /><br />I frequent this board often and very much enjoy reading about people's collections and learning more about a great past-time - a great two minute break during the course of the workday.<br /><br />However, after reading some of the recent posts I feel compelled to offer my two cents, and then I'll fade back and listen....<br /><br />1. This board is not about life or death, we're talking about baseball cards. People should lighten up and stop being so overly dramatic. I remember a few months back when a post was made by someone who wanted to announce he was not going to post anymore - my first thought, who cares. Now I see another frequent poster has announced his departure - great, thanks for filling me in. Bottom line, if you want to post, then great, if not so be it. This board isn't about any one person, it is about a collective enjoyment of a hobby.<br /><br />2. The level of arrogance and snide remarks on this board is ridiculous - reading the messages posted is like peaking in on a junior high class where the popular crowd try to make themselves feel better by knocking on people not deemed worthy of their association (and I think it would be a safe bet to say that most people on this board weren't "lucky" enough to associate with the popular crowd back in their day). Why the hell do people need to be so damn mean - and I'm not talking about good natured ribbing - some of you just come across like arrogant *******s. If someone makes a remark that is inaccurate, then point that out - don't attack the person though. Be more mature than that.<br /><br />3. Yes, there are bad people in the hobby and we should all be on the lookout for such dishonest people. One of things I like most about this board is learning of what to be on the lookout for - a great value. However, there are dishonest people in all walks of life and running away from the problem solves nothing - it simply means they won. Stay involved, yet just be more selective with who you deal with.<br /><br />4. And, to my fourth and most important point, I need a T206 Lajoie Throwing, Griffith Portrait, and Crawford Throwing in PSA 5 - anyone able to help?<br /><br />Thanks for allowing me to pontificate.<br /><br />Brian

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"Germans?"<br /><br />"Forget it, he's rolling."<br />

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Posted By: <b>jeffdrum</b><p>As a history major I know that the Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor. It was a poor attempt at humor on a long Friday afternoon. As was pointed out, it was a classic line uttered by John Belushi in "Animal House."

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Ahhh....<br /><br /><br />And that reminds me that I've been wanting to watch 1941 again. Apologies.

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Posted By: <b>peter chao</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />You shouldn't kid about Pearl Harbor. Right now Bruce is telling everybody the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.<br /><br />Brian,<br /><br />You made good points, don't fade into the background. This is one stubborn group of guys, we need people that are willing to keep us on our toes. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Peter C.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>if it bit you in your pampered Upper East Side butt. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Lighten up, Francis!

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Posted By: <b>Alan</b><p>I have a feeling this thread is going to turn into a 300 posts thread. This message board is great entertainment !!!<br /><br />As Tom Cruise once said, "Sometimes you just gotta say, ...."

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Posted By: <b>Ed Ivey</b><p>"He was wearing my TIE. My Harvard tie. Like, oh sure, HE went to Harvard.."<br /><br />-Akroyd. Trading Places.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Whatever happens in this thread, the quotes from Stripes and Animal House have made it stellar.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>My favorite is still John Candy's: "My psychiatrist says I swallow a lot of aggression...and a lot of pizza too."

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"Show, Dick (Bruce) some respect!" LOL<br /><br /><img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/juddnelson.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>P</b><p>D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.<br /><br />Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!<br /><br />Otter: Germans?<br /><br />Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.<br /><br />Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...<br /><br />[thinks hard]<br /><br />Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!<br /><br />[runs out, alone; then returns]<br /><br />Bluto: What the (CENSORED) happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my (CENSORED)from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...<br /><br />Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.<br /><br />Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.<br /><br />D-Day: Let's do it.<br /><br />Bluto: LET'S DO IT! <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Jim Dale</b><p>First let me say that I learned a little about collecting vintage cards just a few years ago and never looked twice at them before that. Someone else mentioned this above after your post in that anything you find involving money is going to have some of the same troubles. <br /><br />I found "vintage" because the modern cards I enjoyed the most had the exact same problems you are bothered about here. I quit (am glad I did) collecting a modern card that has an emphasis of online trading (etopps) after spending nearly 10k there over 3 years. Once I quit it became fun to study the posts here, at the PSA and Beckett boards on several different sets I like. I try to collect them, but I can see some of the same problems revolving around them. Its sad....but as it was stated it is going to exist in anything you want to collect. <br /><br />FYI...you think we have it bad try fine art.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/K92OVFeGgIE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/K92OVFeGgIE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><br /><br /><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jTUruCv4Qi4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jTUruCv4Qi4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><br /><br /><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ViiB_dE3Lhs"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ViiB_dE3Lhs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

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Posted By: <b>Rich Klein</b><p> Mr. Dorskind:<br /><br /> Please remember that although this is a hobby for many people; for many others it becomes more than a hobby, it becomes a real passion. And when that passion is diluted, because no one is a perfect saint or a total sinner (although I have met some dealers who have come close to this definition), and a person vocalizes his complaint he deserves respect. Instead, you chose to pile on with some unneeded venom to a collector who made a heartfelt post about why he felt he needed to leave the hobby emotionally.<br /><br /> That collector who posted deserved our respect, for every time we lose a collector, there could very well be a ripple effect of losing even more collectors who see posts like yours and forget a valuable lesson I learned from Frank Barning years ago. Mr. Barning was asked why he called his paper "Baseball Hobby News" and the answer was, "95% of the collectors who read my newspaper read it at home at the end of a day and don't want more bad news; they want to read about collectors and their successes. Remember each time a collector departs, there is not 10 collectors ready to take their place as there were in the 1980's and early 1990's.<br /><br /> Earl Warren, a Supreme Court justice said basically the same thing when asked why the first part of the paper he read each morning was the Sports section. His answer, and I'm paraphrasing here -- "I want to read about the accomplishment of people, not the bad things"<br /><br /> Bruce, YOU have a wealth of knowledge. YOU could contribute even more than you do to the hobby by adding to the works of Krause and Beckett (although I'm no longer there, I guarantee you that their Baseball editor would add your verified information about big-ticket items into the data base). YOU could work and train with younger collectors on how to spot nice items and why are some of the items on your want list so special.<br /><br /> Instead, you choose to take aggressive steps to distance yourself from collectors whom you feel are inferior to you. Dude, YOU like the rest of us, will not be able to take those items with you when you go. So how about making plans for the rest of us to visit those items.<br /><br /> So, I will leave you with these lyrics from one of my favorite singles of the early 1980's<br /><br />"Nobody's Changed, Nobody's been saved, ... I guess I'm lucky; Sometimes I wish for more than I got" <br /><br />What About Me, Moving Pictures 1982<br /><br /> And Bruce, I AM lucky, for I have made a living in the sports memorabilia business since 1986 AND even more importantly have made many friends in said business. In that way, I guarantee you I'm far richer than you are. While I don't have many of the items I once had, let me assure you, that as William DeVaughn once sang, "Be Thankful for what you got" and I'm thankful for what I got and what I've owned and even more importantly for the friends I've made in nearly 30 years in the card hobby.<br /><br /> Rich Klein<br /> Columbia College '81<br /><br />P.S. While I was posting this, a lady I know who used to come to my sports trivia games on AOL IM'd me she had just been diagnosed with breast cancer. While they believe they caught the insidious disease early -- please tell me, now who has the bigger issue, the person who needs to step back from vintage cards or the lady who is now in for the fight of her life.<br /><br />Edited to add P.S.<br />Second edit to fix a couple of minor typos<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Tim Newcomb</b><p>Well said-- the Dorskinds of the world are not what I want to think of when I think of baseball cards. Thanks for a great comment--<br /><br />Tim<br /><br />PS: I'm class of '81 (Davidson College) too