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-   -   Gone with the stain (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=273078)

BigBeerGut 09-01-2019 12:49 PM

Gone with the stain
 
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett

Paul S 09-01-2019 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913386)
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett

Old news. Yes, their name has come up, and yes, IIRC, Leon (hi Leon) has banned them from Net54.

vintagebaseballcardguy 09-01-2019 12:53 PM

If you do a search, you will find some old threads on this topic.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Leon 09-01-2019 01:22 PM

Since you are being quite the instigator lately why don't you tell us how long it's been going on? I am sure there is more ancient dirt you can dig up too if you keep trying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913386)
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett


ALR-bishop 09-01-2019 01:27 PM

This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....

Peter_Spaeth 09-01-2019 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1913401)
This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....

Sorry I am not dignifying Mr. Towle and his chemicals and crease removal with any lyrics. :cool:

Peter_Spaeth 09-01-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913386)
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett

A search for Towle reveals 5 pages of threads. Uh, did you look before your pronouncement?

Republicaninmass 09-01-2019 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913407)
A search for Towle reveals 5 pages of threads. Uh, did you look before your pronouncement?

Then we couldn't beat a dead horse!

iowadoc77 09-01-2019 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1913399)
Since you are being quite the instigator lately why don't you tell us how long it's been going on? I am sure there is more ancient dirt you can dig up too if you keep trying.

Agreed. This appears to be Mr Big Beer Guts modus operandi. Very helpful
Eric Recker, per the rules.

ALR-bishop 09-01-2019 02:08 PM

I am hoping someone will say this is news to them so we can see what a Michael Rookie Hazing looks like

toledo_mudhen 09-01-2019 02:12 PM

Pretty sure everyone knew about this - cept for Beer Gut

Paul S 09-01-2019 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1913401)
This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....

Haha, you're quoting ACE. Saw them open for 10cc in Berkeley many moons ago.

BigBeerGut 09-01-2019 02:24 PM

Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

iowadoc77 09-01-2019 02:31 PM

We did not say Towle isnít bad. Not at all.

And we arenít jumping on the new guy. Your flavor for posting just seems to be rooted in instigation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

And we are in a time where there is a colossal amount of negativity. It would be nice to see more content that isnít. Just my thoughts.

Paul S 09-01-2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913425)
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

Who said Towle Clan is not? Just told you 30 mins ago he is banned here!

Hold me back - I might start talking on mid-70s disco.

Peter_Spaeth 09-01-2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913425)
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

Maybe you should read the threads before concluding anyone is resigned. If nothing else read my posts and tell me I am resigned.

Peter_Spaeth 09-01-2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul S (Post 1913429)
Who said Towle Clan is not? Just told you 30 mins ago he is banned here!

Hold me back - I might start talking on mid-70s disco.

If I recall the song has the line, I ain't quite as dumb as I seem. Hmmm...

Paul S 09-01-2019 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913432)
If I recall the song has the line, I ain't quite as dumb as I seem. Hmmm...

Yes, that too:D

BigBeerGut 09-01-2019 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913430)
Maybe you should read the threads before concluding anyone is resigned. If nothing else read my posts and tell me I am resigned.

I would need a lifetime.

MD

Peter_Spaeth 09-01-2019 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913436)
I would need a lifetime.

MD

I meant in the Towle threads specifically lol.

iowadoc77 09-01-2019 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913436)
I would need a lifetime.

MD

Truth

KCRfan1 09-01-2019 07:05 PM

Having spoken to Mr Towle in the past, he is a nice guy.

Whether you agree with his business or not is personal preference. As others have commented, there are numerous threads to review and comments to read to help guide and lead you down a path.

MD do you feel the same about ones who soak a card, because some on the forum have done so.

steve B 09-01-2019 07:33 PM

From the webpage..

"Most recently we have developed a process to remove postage stamps from old albums and letters."

Yes, it's called soaking, and typically involves Ö wait for it.... soaking the stuff in water. OR if you want to save the letter but sell the stamp (sometimes a foolish move as they can be worth far more together) Some humidity. Like a closed plastic box and a bit of very hot water.

And it's been accepted practice since probably 1840-41, when the first stamps were sold.

Exhibitman 09-01-2019 09:13 PM

He said "Dick"

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...20butthead.gif

Bram99 09-01-2019 11:41 PM

Towle
 
1 Attachment(s)
or Towlie from South Park

lowpopper 09-02-2019 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913425)
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?


Towle does not catch as much flak
due to the level of transparency. He
announces what he does to the world.

simple as that

Republicaninmass 09-02-2019 06:22 AM

For a minute...

I thought with the title with was BigBeerGut's farewell.


Guess we can only hold out hope!

BigBeerGut 09-02-2019 12:01 PM

Stop running your mouth Republican!
Several people have told me your a real tool

egri 09-02-2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1913636)
For a minute...

I thought with the title with was BigBeerGut's farewell.


Guess we can only hold out hope!

And here I thought it was a baseball card-themed Gone with the Wind parody. Maybe someone more clever than me can come up with that one.

barrysloate 09-02-2019 01:27 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9ccNlOTn8

How about the song, and not the movie.

drcy 09-02-2019 02:14 PM

I know that GWTS's chemical treatments to remove signatures from baseballs is easy to identify under blacklight. And, in fact, on their website they themselves detail this.

OldOriole 09-02-2019 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913425)
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

Hmm,

* New to the website but didn't research the topic.
* Didn't know other threads have gone into detail on this.
* Didn't know how to look up old threads (in spite of search button)

who should get the hazing?

As far as GWTS goes, it's rightfully controversial, but I'd hardly say criminal. They disclose the work they do, and, in some cases, even point out how to detect the work. To me, I disagree with some of it and I am OK with other parts. If I give them a page from a victorian album and they soak some T206's off of it, I hardly see that as a problem. We were meant to be able to hold the cards and view the backs (that's why they put advertising on them).

Peter_Spaeth 09-02-2019 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowpopper (Post 1913621)
Towle does not catch as much flak
due to the level of transparency. He
announces what he does to the world.

simple as that

Many people using his services do so ultimately to deceive. That he discloses in general terms what he does is a so what to me. His business is still based largely on helping people improve the appearance of cards in order to sell them deceptively.

I have no objection to soaking cards out of albums, and probably other minor stuff he does.

bobbyw8469 09-02-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
IMHO, I think it is because Towle removes things that shouldn't have been on the card in the first place. Think scrapbook removal....removing wax stains....pen and pencil marks. Things that 95% of the Net54 members do anyway and don't see a problem with.

Why Moser is worse than Towle, is because he is trimming cards and adding colors. Where Towle is just removing things that shouldn't have been on the card in the first place, Moser is deceiving people in a major way. Trimming to sharpen corners is a definite no-no. Same goes for adding colors to cards.

Shoeless Moe 09-02-2019 04:52 PM

I've sent them like 6 pairs of my boxer shorts.

All have come back like new.

I couldn't be happier with his service.

T205 GB 09-02-2019 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bram99 (Post 1913620)
or Towlie from South Park

Best Ever. Hahahha

swarmee 09-02-2019 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1913802)
Think scrapbook removal....removing wax stains....pen and pencil marks. Things that 95% of the Net54 members do anyway and don't see a problem with.

I disagree with your premise. If he catalogued the work he did and didn't gloat that it's getting past grading companies, maybe. But his alterations are done for the most part to deceive.

drcy 09-02-2019 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBeerGut (Post 1913425)
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?


I don't think Towle is malicious, or as malicious, as Moser, but here have been complaints and concerns, including on this board, that Towle's creations get into holders. So your question is not without a worthy point. There can be different intentions but with the same bad results.

Personally, I'm of the philosophy that, no matter what the reason or intent, cards that have been worked on should be permanently marked to identify them. And if you innocently restore a card but do not make that clearly known, that is a problem and a fault.

However, I also know that much of Towle's work is easily identifiable-- and even he has said so. As I noted earlier, he himself showed how some of his work can be identified under blacklight.

Peter_Spaeth 09-02-2019 06:15 PM

He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

barrysloate 09-02-2019 06:20 PM

People generally use the product on lower grade cards and turn them into higher grade cards. Does anyone feel that is ethical?

bnorth 09-02-2019 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913880)
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

It does increase the eye appeal and can get the best most accurate grading company PSA to give them the better grade they deserve.

bobbyw8469 09-02-2019 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913880)
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.

Cliff Bowman 09-02-2019 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1913885)
Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.

I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early 80’s as a pre-teen.

Peter_Spaeth 09-02-2019 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1913892)
I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70ís-early80ís as a pre-teen.

You shouldn't have used your claws.:eek:

steve B 09-02-2019 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman (Post 1913892)
I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70ís-early80ís as a pre-teen.

Early 90's I was standing next to a guy at the local shop who pulled a card that was entirely torn in half from a pack.
If I had been able to think of any way to prove it was in the pack like that, I'd have bought it. But I couldn't think of anything. (He got a new pack for free from the dealer, and the card went in the trash. ) I do have a card related scrap from classic, which is the bit of paper from between the cards. That also came put of a pack.

KCRfan1 09-02-2019 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913880)
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.

Peter_Spaeth 09-02-2019 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCRfan1 (Post 1913938)
If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.

Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.

bobbyw8469 09-02-2019 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913942)
Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.

And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??

Peter_Spaeth 09-02-2019 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1913943)
And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??

No. There's a spectrum and trimming is at the far end of it.

frankbmd 09-02-2019 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1913893)
You shouldn't have used your claws.:eek:

Peter uses his teeth.


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