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-   -   I just don't get it (another TPG complaint, of course)... (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=245848)

JollyElm 10-06-2017 07:38 PM
I just don't get it (another TPG complaint, of course)...
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is basically a throwaway thread, but all of us who collect the 1972 Topps set know how hard it is to come by certain cards that are nicely centered. One of the toughest to find with sweet centering is #50 Willie Mays In Action, and a nice premium is usually paid for them. So imagine my surprise when I cruised ebay and ran across these three cards, all given 8's without any qualifiers. Huh??? And they are all in new holders. I thought conventional wisdom says that PSA graders are tougher these days. No?? These cards certainly belie that!! How in heck aren't these 8 OC, as the pictures practically fall off the left side of the card????? Yowza!!!

Attachment 290095

bnorth 10-06-2017 07:51 PM
I only use PSA for cards I am going to sell. When I receive those grades on cards like that I am very happy. When I see others get those grades I just shake my head and wonder WTF.:eek::D That is the most honest answer you will receive.:D

irv 10-06-2017 08:38 PM
Is it possible they are 9-OC's but the submitter(s) didn't want qualifiers?

swarmee 10-07-2017 03:51 AM
PSA standards for PSA 8 are 35/65 on the front and 10/90 on the back. The two on the left look around that, and the one on the right should be a 7 or below.
Centering is one place where PSA is more lenient than BGS/BVG, but on par with SGC (as long as it's not miscut).

Neither of them are centered well, but why does it drive you crazy? Continue to pay a premium for centered copies, and pass less or don't buy uncentered copies.

Neal 10-07-2017 05:33 AM
My guess is they were graded many years ago and re-holdered

swarmee 10-07-2017 07:46 AM
Nope, they all have new cert numbers. Would retain original certs if they were reholdered.

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irv (Post 1708044)
Is it possible they are 9-OC's but the submitter(s) didn't want qualifiers?
If only we actually had that option. Lol

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1708079)
PSA standards for PSA 8 are 35/65 on the front and 10/90 on the back. The two on the left look around that, and the one on the right should be a 7 or below.
The left-most two look OK to me as well, the card on the right should be 8 OC.

irv 10-07-2017 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter (Post 1708148)
If only we actually had that option. Lol
Q: What are “Qualifiers” and “No Grades”?
A: A “Qualifier” is a term used when an item meets all of the criteria for a particular grade but may still have one significant flaw. Depending on the severity of the flaw, we may be able to “qualify” the item for a higher grade by identifying this indiscretion on the label, for example: OC – Off Center or PD– Print Defects. You have the option of selecting “No Qualifiers” on the submission form; however, please keep in mind the card grade will be lowered depending on the severity. Moreover, there are certain qualifiers that PSA will not remove such as MK –marked and MC – miscut, for example.

The “No Grade” term is used when an item cannot be graded by PSA for a variety of reasons. For example, PSA will not grade items that bear evidence of trimming (N1), restoration (N2), recoloration (N3), questionable authenticity (N4), altered stock (N5) or cleaning (N7). In the event that PSA rejects an item for any of these reasons, it will be returned and the grading fees are still charged, as the determination to reject a card requires an expert review by PSA's authenticators and graders. PSA will also not grade items that do not meet the minimum size requirement (N6), were miscut by the manufacturer (N8), or items we do not grade due to being an obscure issue or not fitting in our holders (N9). Items that receive N6, N8 or N9 results will not be charged the grading fee.

swarmee 10-07-2017 11:59 AM
He may be saying that he would take the conversion of any 9(OC) to an 8. PSA will normally automatically downgrade a single grade drop due to any flaw, but return a Mint card that's heavily off-centered either 9(OC) or PSA 7 or below based on their listed requirements on that page:
PSA 7: 75/25 or better
PSA 6: 80/20 or better
PSA 5: 85/15 or better
PSA 4: 85/15 again
PSA 3: 90/10 or better
PSA 2: 90/10 again
PSA 1.5: 90/10 again
PSA 1: Not miscut

So a Gem Mint otherwise card that's 89/11 can supposedly only get a top non-qualified grade of PSA 3, or it would be a 9(OC). That's why I never select "No qualifiers." Why not take a much higher grade and registry set value? 9(Q) = 7 for the registy.

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 12:44 PM
PSA never removes the OC qualifier from their grade.

Yes you can get a no-grade, but they will never downgrade an 8 or 9 card
due to centering, removing the OC. To do otherwise is fraudulent.

They have never done this and never will. A card's attributes cannot
be changed. It is what it is. And the submitter has no say in this.

If you want your 8-OC to become a 7, then I suggest that you crack
it out, damage a few corners, and resubmit.

Republicaninmass 10-07-2017 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter (Post 1708213)
PSA never removes the OC qualifier from their grade.

Yes you can get a no-grade, but they will not downgrade a card
due to centering, removing the OC.

They have never done this and never will. A card's attribute cannot
be changed. It is what it is.
The won't remove mk or MC qualifiers, but if a card is submitted with "no qualifiers" requested, it will be graded at the highest grade for the measured centering without the o/c designation.

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1708217)
The won't remove mk or MC qualifiers, but if a card is submitted with "no qualifiers" requested, it will be graded at the highest grade for the measured centering without the o/c designation.
If they are doing this now then it's a newer policy. I haven't done a PSA
subsmission in two years. But to me that's fraudulent. If the card is OC
then it just is -- and to say it is not is a lie.

So are they now allowing 8OC cards to become a 6.? Geez I'm glad that
I stopped monkeying with PSA. It's just a money grab now. Totally bogus.
Would be more valid to just stop giving OC qualifiers completely and let the
market determine if the card looks good for the grade.

swarmee 10-07-2017 01:28 PM
Yeah, you're talking out of ignorance on this one. I have already wrote their standards down in the thread and you can get a 6 just for off-centeredness with no other damage and no OC if you request No Qualifiers on the submission. Either you didn't know the rules in the first place, or you haven't been paying attention for a long time.

Camilo 10-07-2017 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1708033)
I only use PSA for cards I am going to sell. When I receive those grades on cards like that I am very happy. When I see others get those grades I just shake my head and wonder WTF.:eek::D That is the most honest answer you will receive.:D
Agreed. I personally prefer Beckett grading but since PSA commands the top prices I buy PSA

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glynparson 10-07-2017 05:15 PM
You most certainly can
 
You most certainly can request no qualifiers. This has been an option since 1993 or 1994 shortly after they started. that would make a 9 oc worse then an 8 though. Its generally two lower some more very few times less. I also agree that i think the first two just make it. the third one looks like they missed the oc qualifier on data submission. like stated mc and mk qualifiers can not be opted out of.

irv 10-07-2017 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irv (Post 1708166)
Q: What are “Qualifiers” and “No Grades”?
A: A “Qualifier” is a term used when an item meets all of the criteria for a particular grade but may still have one significant flaw. Depending on the severity of the flaw, we may be able to “qualify” the item for a higher grade by identifying this indiscretion on the label, for example: OC – Off Center or PD– Print Defects. You have the option of selecting “No Qualifiers” on the submission form; however, please keep in mind the card grade will be lowered depending on the severity. Moreover, there are certain qualifiers that PSA will not remove such as MK –marked and MC – miscut, for example.

The “No Grade” term is used when an item cannot be graded by PSA for a variety of reasons. For example, PSA will not grade items that bear evidence of trimming (N1), restoration (N2), recoloration (N3), questionable authenticity (N4), altered stock (N5) or cleaning (N7). In the event that PSA rejects an item for any of these reasons, it will be returned and the grading fees are still charged, as the determination to reject a card requires an expert review by PSA's authenticators and graders. PSA will also not grade items that do not meet the minimum size requirement (N6), were miscut by the manufacturer (N8), or items we do not grade due to being an obscure issue or not fitting in our holders (N9). Items that receive N6, N8 or N9 results will not be charged the grading fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter (Post 1708213)
PSA never removes the OC qualifier from their grade.

Yes you can get a no-grade, but they will never downgrade an 8 or 9 card
due to centering, removing the OC. To do otherwise is fraudulent.

They have never done this and never will. A card's attributes cannot
be changed. It is what it is. And the submitter has no say in this.

If you want your 8-OC to become a 7, then I suggest that you crack
it out, damage a few corners, and resubmit.
What I posted above is right out of their site. I bolded and tilted it specifically to emphasis that for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glynparson (Post 1708294)
You most certainly can request no qualifiers. This has been an option since 1993 or 1994 shortly after they started. that would make a 9 oc worse then an 8 though. Its generally two lower some more very few times less. I also agree that i think the first two just make it. the third one looks like they missed the oc qualifier on data submission. like stated mc and mk qualifiers can not be opted out of.
I wasn't a 100% sure how long that had been an option but I did know it had been around for a while.

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 09:36 PM
Yes I stand corrected.

But it's a shameful practice really. If a card is truly OC then that should not be changeable at the submitter's whim.

For me it's practices like this that make PSA a shameful money grab
and undermine the credibility of TPG. Just accept a lower grade and
you can make an entire attribute of a card go away. Total nonsense.

OlderTheBetter 10-07-2017 09:42 PM
Yes I stand corrected.

But it's a shameful practice really. If a card is truly OC then that should not
be changeable at the submitter's whim.

For me it's practices like this that make PSA a shameful money grab
and undermine the credibility of TPG. Just accept a lower grade and
you can make an entire attribute of a card go away. Total nonsense.

My favorite LCS stlll refuses to deal with graded cards, and he continues
on as if the whole thing never happened. I see his viewpoint sometimes
and an issue like this is one of the reasons.

savedfrommyspokes 10-07-2017 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter (Post 1708361)
Yes I stand corrected.

But it's a shameful practice really. If a card is truly OC then that should not be changeable at the submitter's whim.

For me it's practices like this that make PSA a shameful money grab
and undermine the credibility of TPG. Just accept a lower grade and
you can make an entire attribute of a card go away. Total nonsense.
Haven't SGC and Beckett been grading cards without the use of qualifiers and deducting from a card's overall grade for being off centered since they started? Seems like PSA is merely providing this same option to their customers by allowing submitters to request that most qualifiers not be applied to their card and subsequently deducting for the centering from the grade.

Jenx34 10-07-2017 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlderTheBetter (Post 1708364)
Yes I stand corrected.

But it's a shameful practice really. If a card is truly OC then that should not
be changeable at the submitter's whim.

For me it's practices like this that make PSA a shameful money grab
and undermine the credibility of TPG. Just accept a lower grade and
you can make an entire attribute of a card go away. Total nonsense.

My favorite LCS stlll refuses to deal with graded cards, and he continues
on as if the whole thing never happened. I see his viewpoint sometimes
and an issue like this is one of the reasons.
I don't understand how that is shameful. It's not difference than saying that a card would be an 8 except for that one corner ding, instead I got a 6. By giving qualifiers on certain cards, they are actually trying to do the customer a favor by saying in this instance we'll rate it higher with an asterisk.

If they didn't offer qualifiers, then an OC card that qualifies for a max 6 grade would be a 6 period, regardless of how nice it is otherwise. Just like a perfect card with one bad corner.

ALR-bishop 10-08-2017 06:49 AM
Dave-- I am not a graded guy but you appear to be swimming in one of those rip tides :)


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