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-   -   Old Timers Who Belong in the HOF (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=251983)

jefferyepayne 03-02-2018 07:20 AM

Old Timers Who Belong in the HOF
 
There are lots of pro football players prior to 1970 that deserve some consideration for the HOF. Unfortunately at this point it is very unlikely many of them will get in. Post those you think at least deserve a look and any cards / images you have of them here.

jeff

DBesse27 03-02-2018 07:56 AM

I may be biased, but I do believe the AFL's all time leading scorer and 1964 MVP deserves a look.

https://i.imgur.com/byat0jy.jpg

supplex55 03-02-2018 09:27 PM

Off the top of my head--Johnny Robinson, Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch and the only 2 time MVP not in the HOF--Daryle Lamonica.

TanksAndSpartans 03-02-2018 11:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I like colorful cards like Chicles, Leafs, and Bowmans, so I donít even wind up collecting anything from the eras that Iím most interested. Jeff, can you help me out with some images?

There arenít any Nessers in the HOF. Iíd start with 3 of them (Ted, Frank, and Al). Iíd have Calac as I mentioned. Then Iíd take Lavvie Dilweg, Duke Slater, and Tony Latone. Thereís a handful of other pre-1920 players Iím still researching so I wonít go out on a limb with them, but anyone can pm me for those.

Well, since Dan opened the door to bias, I'll show one card of a player who was both a Tank and a Spartan:

revmoran 03-03-2018 02:09 PM

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4789/...235c03e8_b.jpg

jefferyepayne 03-04-2018 09:00 AM

Items that depict some of the stars from the 20s are tough to find as most weren't depicted on cards. Here are some images I have for the ones John mentioned above.

1916 Canton Bulldogs composite with Pete Calac.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZQ...r=w800-h641-no

Image up close.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Gw...r=w673-h923-no

Ted Nesser (and son). Only father and son to ever play in the NFL together.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Dq...=w1000-h745-no

Al Nesser.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V3...0=w436-h599-no

Tony Latone (plus autograph).
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3e...-=w494-h640-no

Dilweg.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sc...b=w518-h669-no

jeff

TanksAndSpartans 03-04-2018 09:50 AM

Wow! Awesome items.

Mike, nice Lavie Dilweg piece. I also bid on a matchbook once which I think may have been a promotional piece for his campaign, but I’m not sure.

Jeff, great idea for a thread. Several of the players depicted in your Canton Bulldogs composite in addition to Calac are on my list of pre-NFL players worth a look for the HOF:

Ralph “Fats” Waldsmith (who I list first because I have him as the best Center of the era which is saying something because there was good competition)
Howard “Cap” Edwards
Clarence “Doc” Spears
Milton Ghee (probably not considered as good of a pure passer as his contemporaries Al Marht and Gus Dorias, but I liken him to Bob Waterfield.)

Not to go on a tangent, but... my records have Greasy Neale playing for Canton in ’15 and ’17 which matches him not being in your composite, but why didn't he play in '16? He didn't want to risk his day job?

Nice photos of Ted and Al. I think Frank is the most underrated - he was a solid passer, punter, and ball carrier and played some minor league baseball which to me shows he was a solid athlete, not just a big goon on the line :). Wikipedia says this:

"Nesser was also a minor league baseball player in the Ohio State League from 1910–1914. He later played in the North Carolina State League in 1915 and 1916. After abandoning baseball for a few years he restarted his career in the Illinois–Indiana–Iowa League in 1920 and played one final season, in 1921, in the Michigan–Ontario League. He left baseball after 9 seasons in which he posted a .325 batting average."

It would be something if there had been a baseball card of Frank. I think some of the contemporary tobacco card issues did include minor leaguers.

Great signed Latone piece. He was a senior finalist at one point and in Ralph Hickok's bio of Johnny Blood where they are both at the HOF in '73 and Blood is asked by John Bankert and Jim Campbell if any players from his era ought to be in the HOF he said:

"Tony was a Jim Taylor type, ran low with real high knee action, and you couldn't hit him hard enough to make him happy. You could just clobber him, you'd think you wiped him out, knocked him out of the game, and he'd get up and grin at you. Like he was saying, 'Is that the best you can do?' If you tried to tackle him low, one of his knees might break your nose, and if you tried to get him high, he'd carry you on his back for five or six yards, and then he wouldn't go down unless a couple other people helped you out. He was also a great linebacker, if he played today, he'd be in a class with Nitschke and Butkus, the same type, a ferocious hitter. And he could also get into pass coverage when he had to."

AFLfan 03-04-2018 10:30 AM

7 Attachment(s)
Here are a handful from my little era...

Bigshot69 03-04-2018 12:26 PM

Maybe not old school, but I always felt Karl Mecklenburg should be in the HoF. The guy has nearly 80 sacks, 4 X 1st Team All-NFL, and literally carried an otherwise weak Broncos defense during thier first couple AFC Championship runs with Elway under Center.

pclpads 03-04-2018 01:28 PM

Missing FB HOFers
 
Charley Conerly QB of the '50's Giants; and the '60's AFL Dolts guard Walt Sweeney. Always surprised the Giffer didn't push for CC's election as they were teammates for 10 years and from what I've read, pretty tight. And CC was a helluva QB in his own stead.

jefferyepayne 03-04-2018 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TanksAndSpartans (Post 1753859)
Not to go on a tangent, but... my records have Greasy Neale playing for Canton in ’15 and ’17 which matches him not being in your composite, but why didn't he play in '16? He didn't want to risk his day job?

Neale played for years for the Bulldogs under assumed names. One of them was "Fischer". Accounts vary as to whether he played at all in Canton in 1916. Here are a few Greasy Neale items you might like.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7D...0=w216-h361-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/NS...U=w248-h321-no

From a 1913 West Virginia Wesleyan basketball team composite:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q9...e=w155-h311-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Mg...=w1058-h888-no

jeff

TanksAndSpartans 03-05-2018 05:50 PM

Thanks Jeff - great Neale player collection and I'm glad you posted the Canton composite - that's such a great piece. Did you get the '22 one BST auctioned off last year? I stick to cards, but that one really tempted me especially since I thought it went low for what it was, but I have no idea about memorabilia prices.

jefferyepayne 03-05-2018 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TanksAndSpartans (Post 1754372)
Did you get the '22 one BST auctioned off last year? I stick to cards, but that one really tempted me especially since I thought it went low for what it was, but I have no idea about memorabilia prices.

I did. Have missed on that item a few times in the past. I'm putting together a run of NFL championship team photos from 1920-1969 and was missing a 1922 Canton Bulldogs photo so happy to finally snag this!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oz...=w1289-h794-no

jeff

Aquarian Sports Cards 03-05-2018 10:06 PM

Charlie Conerly, Bill Forester, Alex Karas

Bored5000 03-06-2018 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne (Post 1754443)
I'm putting together a run of NFL championship team photos from 1920-1969 and was missing a 1922 Canton Bulldogs photo so happy to finally snag this!

I would hope 1925 is not represented by the Cardinals. ;):D

TanksAndSpartans 03-06-2018 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored5000 (Post 1754532)
I would hope 1925 is not represented by the Cardinals. ;):D

+1

And congrats on the '22 composite.

Lots of great players mentioned. I've always really liked the '50 Bowman Conerly. If I had an an Al Wistert, I'd add him as well.

revmoran 03-06-2018 10:19 AM

Some here will appreciate this advertisement from an NFL program from October 10, 1926

https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.ne...201926%204.jpg

TanksAndSpartans 03-06-2018 03:11 PM

Mike, great program. I'd sign the petition to have that title reinstated.

esd10 04-16-2018 06:29 PM

Ken anderson, ken the rattler reilly, lamar parrish to name a few that have been very much overlooled by cantons writers/voters

JTysver 05-18-2018 12:11 PM

Jim "Wrong Way" Marshall and Cookie Gilchrist

Jeff Alcorn 05-22-2018 01:44 AM

A few that come to mind-

Eddie Meador, Alex Karras, Gino Cappelletti, Bubba Smith, Johnny Robinson (Chiefs), Bob Boyd (Colts), Jim Marshall, Lamar Lundy, Rosey Grier, Roman Gabriel, Daryle Lamonica, Jim Nance, Dave Grayson, Harold Jackson, Tommy Nobis, George Byrd, Cookie Gilchrist, Ken Riley, Don Perkins, Lionel Taylor, and nearly everyone else mentioned above. I also heard Bart Starr being interviewed and he really pushed for Bob Skoronski, saying his blocking graded out as well as Forrest Gregg's.

I think that there are too many great players that have been ignored, and I am sure that many more would come to mind if I took the time to compile a list. Eddie Meador is on top of my list (as an old school Rams' fan), and Merlin Olsen advocated for him as have a number of others. He is a quiet and humble guy that does not blow his own horn, but he was the leader on the great Rams defenses under George Allen. Safety is a very overlooked position in the HOF, and this situation should be corrected.

Jeff

sb1 05-24-2018 06:43 AM

Gale Gillingham would be a strong candidate.

vintagechris 05-31-2018 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Alcorn (Post 1779192)
A few that come to mind-

Eddie Meador, Alex Karras, Gino Cappelletti, Bubba Smith, Johnny Robinson (Chiefs), Bob Boyd (Colts), Jim Marshall, Lamar Lundy, Rosey Grier, Roman Gabriel, Daryle Lamonica, Jim Nance, Dave Grayson, Harold Jackson, Tommy Nobis, George Byrd, Cookie Gilchrist, Ken Riley, Don Perkins, Lionel Taylor, and nearly everyone else mentioned above. I also heard Bart Starr being interviewed and he really pushed for Bob Skoronski, saying his blocking graded out as well as Forrest Gregg's.

I think that there are too many great players that have been ignored, and I am sure that many more would come to mind if I took the time to compile a list. Eddie Meador is on top of my list (as an old school Rams' fan), and Merlin Olsen advocated for him as have a number of others. He is a quiet and humble guy that does not blow his own horn, but he was the leader on the great Rams defenses under George Allen. Safety is a very overlooked position in the HOF, and this situation should be corrected.

Jeff

I really like this list!

bbcard1 05-31-2018 08:28 AM

Personally, I don't think his career was long enough, but Norm Willey is an interesting case. 17 sacks in ONE GAME.

Aquarian Sports Cards 05-31-2018 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Alcorn (Post 1779192)
A few that come to mind-

Eddie Meador, Alex Karras, Gino Cappelletti, Bubba Smith, Johnny Robinson (Chiefs), Bob Boyd (Colts), Jim Marshall, Lamar Lundy, Rosey Grier, Roman Gabriel, Daryle Lamonica, Jim Nance, Dave Grayson, Harold Jackson, Tommy Nobis, George Byrd, Cookie Gilchrist, Ken Riley, Don Perkins, Lionel Taylor, and nearly everyone else mentioned above. I also heard Bart Starr being interviewed and he really pushed for Bob Skoronski, saying his blocking graded out as well as Forrest Gregg's.

I think that there are too many great players that have been ignored, and I am sure that many more would come to mind if I took the time to compile a list. Eddie Meador is on top of my list (as an old school Rams' fan), and Merlin Olsen advocated for him as have a number of others. He is a quiet and humble guy that does not blow his own horn, but he was the leader on the great Rams defenses under George Allen. Safety is a very overlooked position in the HOF, and this situation should be corrected.

Jeff

These guys always seemed like horrible oversights to me

VoodooChild 05-31-2018 02:48 PM

I agree with a lot of the guys already listed and was trying to think of someone not mentioned yet. I was very young when he played, but I collect 70's and George Kunz seems to have an All-Pro card for just about every year. I guess OL and especially Right Tackles don't get much respect but he was the 2nd overall selection in the '69 draft after O.J. (Mean Joe was 4th). Yeah, the Falcons were bad in the early 70's but he was on the team for their first two winning seasons and then he played for some really good Colts teams in the mid-70's who just ran into better Steelers and Raiders teams. So, he gets my vote.

Also, now that I think about it, another 70's Falcons OL, Center - Jeff Van Note, would get my vote too.

TanksAndSpartans 06-04-2018 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcard1 (Post 1782153)
Personally, I don't think his career was long enough, but Norm Willey is an interesting case. 17 sacks in ONE GAME.

I believed this when I first read it as well, but when I looked into it via someone who does research on sacks, I was told:

"Willey likely had 8 in that game, according to Paul Zimmerman who was there. The Eagles has 12 and Zimmerman says 8"

I believe 8 would still be the record, so not a bad game! It would be nice if he was at least recognized as one of the top players of the 50s - he seems mostly forgotten.

AFLfan 06-04-2018 03:38 PM

If any of you guys would like to see the Chiefs' Johnny Robinson get in, I have been working on a campaign for him. I am gathering quotes from former players and football authors/historians that support him. I also have a petition on my website with which I am gathering signatures.

Two member of the HoF Senior Committee have agreed to present the quotes and petition results at their next voting meeting in August. Please feel free to sign and share the petition with whomever you like.

Thanks, Todd

http://talesfromtheamericanfootballl...-hall-of-fame/


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