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-   -   enough is enough (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=245482)

Peter_Spaeth 10-01-2017 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1705828)
Yes, Peter, I agree. But do we re-write history, remove plaques, tear down statues, etc? Where do we stop? There are certainly some racists in the HOF too. Do we give them the boot and ignore all their accomplishments? It has to stop somewhere. The political correctness is out of hand.

It's a good question. I am not sure I have a principled answer but I am OK with taking down the Confederate flag on a state capitol as it's such an overt symbol. Removing monuments and renaming things though strikes me as feel good political correctness that achieves nothing for the most part.

nolemmings 10-01-2017 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cammb (Post 1706224)
You certainly can be fired if you are protesting anything at your work place , on company time , without the owners permission

Maybe you can, but if you have contractual protections such as may be found in collective bargaining agreements, there are often obstacles to such firings. An owner would likely have to claim that the "protest" violated a morals provision in the CBA and convince an arbitrator that certain broad and likely amorphous language governing player conduct precludes gestures (kneeling) during the anthem. Then he would have to show that such conduct is so outrageous that the punishment is not fine or suspension, but termination of the contract. Good luck with that, even at the arbitration level. Never mind what a judge would do with that thereafter if the player appealed. Go for it.

nolemmings 10-01-2017 10:34 AM

BTW, it should be remembered that the great Jackie Robinson, who served in the military during a time of World War, also protested the flag:

In his 1972 autobiography, I Never Had It Made, Jackie Robinson -- who broke baseball’s color line in 1947 -- wrote, "As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world."

Peter_Spaeth 10-01-2017 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 1706216)
You can be fired for voting for the wrong candidate. Employers have wide latitude in hiring and firing as long as they don't make it obvious they are discriminating.

I don't think you can be fired for fulfilling your jury duty obligation, for example. There are public policy limits to the unfettered right to fire an at will employee.

KMayUSA6060 10-01-2017 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 1706286)
BTW, it should be remembered that the great Jackie Robinson, who served in the military during a time of World War, also protested the flag:

In his 1972 autobiography, I Never Had It Made, Jackie Robinson -- who broke baseball’s color line in 1947 -- wrote, "As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world."

It should also be remembered the actual oppression he suffered through, and that he served in a time where the draft was still active.

nolemmings 10-01-2017 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 (Post 1706294)
It should also be remembered the actual oppression he suffered through, and that he served in a time where the draft was still active.

So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.
Got it.

cammb 10-01-2017 11:54 AM

[QUOTE=nolemmings;1706298]So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.


I really feel sorry for these poor oppressed football players. Maybe we should set a fund to help them through their oppression

Peter_Spaeth 10-01-2017 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=cammb;1706309]
Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 1706298)
So his military service should be discounted because he was drafted instead of enlisted, and he had a right to protest because he could prove, in a manner satisfactory to you and/or others, that he was an actual victim of oppression.


I really feel sorry for these poor oppressed football players. Maybe we should set a fund to help them through their oppression

You are missing the point entirely.

vintagetoppsguy 10-01-2017 01:16 PM

Did Jackie ever get down on all fours and raise his leg pretending to piss like a dog in celebration?

Snapolit1 10-01-2017 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings (Post 1706262)
Maybe you can, but if you have contractual protections such as may be found in collective bargaining agreements, there are often obstacles to such firings. An owner would likely have to claim that the "protest" violated a morals provision in the CBA and convince an arbitrator that certain broad and likely amorphous language governing player conduct precludes gestures (kneeling) during the anthem. Then he would have to show that such conduct is so outrageous that the punishment is not fine or suspension, but termination of the contract. Good luck with that, even at the arbitration level. Never mind what a judge would do with that thereafter if the player appealed. Go for it.

Yeah, I'd like to be the lawyer on that one there. After an hour reviewing players who weren't fired for abusing their wives in public, beating their kids senseless, punching police officers, participating in sexual assaults of every stripe imaginable who weren't terminated on the morals clause, I'd then get around to the guy who too a knee quietly during the national anthem. I'd live for that.


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