Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   OT, Remembrance (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=82246)

Archive 09-12-2006 06:39 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>steve f</b><p> Spent a few hours this AM at a Department 9-11 service honoring the firefighters. As usual, many residents in town had stopped by with food and drink. It was well attended, but less grieving and I dare say a little joyous. Different from our past annual Never Forget functions. It appears we're finally beginning to heal.<br /><br /> I called my son afterwards, to send my love, he's at college in NYC. Mike and some others students were on the way to WTC to pay respects, then heading uptown for lunch and to attend the Letterman taping.<br /><br /> I'm proud of Americas' resilience and compassion. Has anyone else noticed any positive changes?<br /><br />9.11.01 0847hrs...<br />Dispatch FDNY, "Working box 8087, <br />Tower-7 to respond, WTC and Liberty Street"<br /><br />RIP, The Valiant Six from TL-7<br /><br />Please take the time to read a bit about 'em.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.fallenbrothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1167" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.fallenbrothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=1167</a>

Archive 09-12-2006 08:40 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I watched a special this evening about flight 93, and several news shows today, covering the tragic event. Very sad to hear lot's of the stories. Not sure how political we want to get here but I hope we find Bin Laden and nuke him..... We should never forget 9/11...may all those that lost their lives rest in peace....

Archive 09-12-2006 09:17 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Leon<br /><br />I don't think we will ever find Bin Laden as he is dead. He hasn't appeared in any<br /> of his propaganda videos since October of 2004. And, if you recall in that one he<br /> looked like death warmed over. His face was gaunt and his expression and his hair<br /> and his beard looked like the visage of of a dying man. He supposedly had kidney<br /> problems. And, if that didn't do him in; then, his evilness consumed him.<br /><br />Now, we have his #2 propagandist, Al Zawahri (or whatever), who is talking for him.<br />If you go back to two years ago, this dude had a younger, robust face. Now in this<br />recent video this guy, too, has a gaunt face that looks quite strained.<br /><br />Their evil ways are consuming these terrorist and I think they are getting a preview<br />of Hell, while they are still alive.<br /><br /><br />The day of 9/11/2001 is one we will always recall (just like JFK's assasination) what we<br /> were doing when we first heard the news and watched smoke rising from the North tower.<br />I recall the news outlets initially saying it was hit by a commuter plane and I thought that<br /> they have to be kidding us. Then 15 mins later the South tower exploded with a huge fireball<br /> as Flt 175 drove right thru it.<br /><br />A good friend of mine lost his son that day in one of the towers. And, my older Daughter's<br /> neighbor lost her husband. Just imagine the grief that these two gals suffered thru as they<br /> watched that 2nd plane slice thru the South tower, and knowing your loved one was in the<br /> path of that destruction.<br /><br />May GOD protect us from these barbarians....who are stuck back in the dark ages.

Archive 09-12-2006 09:27 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Thanks for posting this. I can vividly remember on the first anniversary having to pull my car over to the side of the road to wipe away a tear or two. Something i will certainly never forget. May God bless all those individuals and their families who were affected by this. Time will do its healing and America will be stronger for it. <br /><br />

Archive 09-12-2006 10:52 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I had a friend who quit her job working for a company that had offices in the North tower on the 93rd floor a week before the attack. She lost a lot of friends that day. I also knew one of the people that died on flight 93.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Archive 09-13-2006 01:55 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>I was surprised at how hard it hit home again this year. The media coverage is just overwhelming, which is good for those that can be enlightened, but also makes for a much tougher day for someone who was there.<br /><br />I was there (not as close as the unfortunate, but a block away was close enough to understand), and I have friends who died, family members of co-workers that died, I was supposed to attend a conference in one of the towers the very next day, and my brother-in-law was supposed to be on one of the planes but changed his ticket 2 days before. These events can really shake you, and I wish events and emotions like these upon no one. <br />This "OT" post is very appropriate and I hope everyone else agrees.<br /><br />Sept 12 is the best day of the year, and I think we should all look forward to, and be grateful for, every one of them we see in the future...thanks.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Jason

Archive 09-13-2006 02:03 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I saw the towers burning from the top floor of my building, as I live only a mile away. I remember the eerie silence and trying to imagine what was going on in that moment as the smoke billowed out. Walking around my neighborhood that day the sky was a complete haze. Small bits of paper fell into our front and back yards, remnants that had blown across the East River into Brooklyn. My wife and I went to the hospital down the street from us and sat there all day signing up volunteers who wanted to donate blood or help in any way they could. We anticipated the hospital would be swarming with patients coming in who needed medical attention, but almost nobody was admitted. Either you survived the attack unharmed or you were lost. I will never forget that day. My greatest fear is that something equally insidious may happen again.

Archive 09-13-2006 06:23 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Steve F.<br /><br />Thanks for providing your link for us to read. <br />My nephew, a paramedic, worked at one of the downtown triage's for days after 9/11.<br />His stories were heart-rending......just like the stories in your link. And, I agree with<br /> you about the compassion and resilency of most Americans.<br /><br />Unfortunately though, some are not too "resilient". And, what I am referring to is this<br /> growing suspicion that our government blew up those towers and that the Pentagon was<br />not hit by Flt 77. Well, why don't these skeptics ask Barbara Olsen's husband where she is ?<br /> Or Deborah Burlingame where her brother is ? Capt. Burlingame was the pilot flying Flt 77<br /> that day.<br /><br />A poll taken recently indicated that 35% of Americans do not only blame Mohamed Atta and<br /> the 18 other terrorists....but are saying that our goverment was complicit in this terrorist act.<br /><br />And, about half of this group (16%) are telling us that what we actually saw that morning<br />did not really happen.....but that agents in our government somehow planted bombs in the<br /> towers and exploded them. Well, Ramsy Yousef tried that "stunt" in 1993 and guess what ?<br /> He was unsuccessful.<br /><br />Steve.....maybe I am getting too old......but this stuff really bothers me.

Archive 09-13-2006 07:09 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I thought I'd go back as far as this board could go and I got to page 251 and it was for Sept 13, 2001. No real mention of the towers I could see immediately. <br /><br />I spent a lot of time up in NY/NJ area from 2001-2003 off and on and always loved going into the city. Have great photos of the group of people I worked with on Liberty Island with the towers in the background. Still can't really believe it happened. Spent a few nights at the Millenium Hilton in 2003 which is directly adjacent to the site where the towers stood. On the 18-20th floor where our room was it was pretty eerie just staring down into that hole.<br /><br />Hopefully, none of us forgets 9-11. It's a tough day for me too because my grandfather died 9-11-2002, so I remember it for another way. <br /><br />Pretty tough reliving it through all the tv coverage. Thanks to all those who continually give of themselves so the rest of us can be safe......

Archive 09-13-2006 07:59 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I saw the second tower collapse from my office window. I was so shocked at what I saw that I had to turn on the TV to see if it really happened. That long walk back home on streets filled with equally bewildered New Yorkers, occasionally joined by someone covered in ash, was funereal and mostly silent. The only thing nice about that disaster was how New York really came together for a few days. Everyone was friendly and caring towards each other, even on the subways. I could smell the burning of the rubble for days from my apt 70 blocks north of the towers. I have one memory that really stuck out that I've never shared before, which really explained a lot to me: a day or so later a kid about 18 or so who looked to be very poor and angry was riding his bicycle on the street and saying at the top of his lungs that some more planes were coming out of the sky and we should all watch out. He was basically rooting for the terrorists because he felt so disenfranchised and left out and apparently identified more with them than us.

Archive 09-13-2006 08:06 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>because if that is really the case - that 35% of Americans think it was the govt or that it didn't happen??? if that's true, then this country is truly full of idiots. Profoundly dumb people who apparently have far too much free time on their hands!<br />That is truly, truly sad commentary on the state of the American mind.

Archive 09-13-2006 08:19 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>I was just blocks away and had all too good of a view of what was happening. I still remember the sites, sounds, the smell, and the taste in my throat. I was in the city until about midnight that night (bridges tunnels closed... I drive to work) - and the street my office is on was the street used by emergency vehicles. I heard the sounds of sirens in my head for weeks.<br /><br />Honestly, I cannot watch any type of memorial ceremony, documentary, or movie. Just can't do it. I don't think I ever will have that ability and I have no desire to try to change that. <br /><br />So... I spent 9/11 on the golf course... and hope to continue that tradition for a long time.

Archive 09-13-2006 09:32 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Jason,<br />More than 50% of Americans believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Never underestimate the stupidity of Americans.<br />JimB

Archive 09-13-2006 10:25 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>There is lots controvaersy still surrounding the Pentagon attack. Not one camera showing the explosion shows an airplane hitting the building. There is also no pieces of debris that you expect to find if a large plane hit building. The damage that was done is more that of a large missle than a large plane. There also the curious fact that this was basically an untrained pilot who was able to fly a large plane just feet off the ground before hitting the building. The angle of entry was almost paralell to the ground. <br /><br />There is a missing flight to account for the explosion at the Pentagon, but there is also a whole lot things that happened there that don't add up to a large plane hitting the building.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Archive 09-13-2006 10:46 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I watched CNN Pipeline all day yesterday; they rebroadcast their 9/11 coverage in real-time, starting at 8:30 AM. I was struck by how different the world was then, and how quickly it changed - when the second plane hit the second tower, the reporter was speculating that there must be something wrong with the airplanes' navigation systems and they were steering them all right to the WTC. Today, if thunder sounds weird, people wonder if it was a bomb.<br /><br />The best friend I ever had died indirectly as a result of what Barry is talking about. He was recovering from colon cancer and a CT scan uncovered something near his stomach. They had scheduled an exploratory surgery for 9/12/01, but all the New York and Northern NJ hospitals cancelled all non-emergency procedures in anticipation of an influx of WTC victims that never came. My buddy didn't wind up having the surgery until late October; by that time the tumor was so big it was inoperable, and he was dead before February at 32 years old.<br /><br />Everyone I know knows at least someone who died that day, and lots more friends were nearby, or in the building. I also watched the towers burn - first from a block away from my house, and a week later from across the river in Frank Sinatra Park. We remember it every day, but it was fitting to have the reminder nonetheless. Despite all the mayhem that has occurred since, I am glad to be alive and I've hugged my family a little tighter every day since.<br /><br />-Al

Archive 09-14-2006 01:27 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Hey Jay B.<br /><br />Are you part of the 1/3 crowd of "conspiracy dudes" that believes the Towers were<br />blown up and that the Pentagon was NOT hit by Flt 77 ?<br /><br />Tell me what do you think will be left of a jet plane crashing into a building at the<br /> speed of 500+ mph ?<br /><br />Hey buddy....it will disintegrate into a million tiny pieces which will then melt when<br /> the jet fuel ignites....and that is indeed what happened to Flt 93 in Shanksville, PA.<br /> It hit the soft terrain at 580 mph and nothing larger than small pieces of scrap metal<br /> were found. And, indeed that is what also happened at the Pentagon site; but, worst<br /> disintegration as the big jet hit steel and concrete.<br /><br />Jay.....again, I ask you, or anyone else, what happened to Barbara Olsen....Flt Capt.<br />Burlingame.....or the 50+ other passengers on Flt 77 that most of us know hit the<br />Pentagon ?<br />Did "aliens" carry them away....perhaps to "Area 51" ?<br /><br />This "bull..s..t" was started by two "wacko" College profs. out west, who have already<br /> been proven wrong by experts in the field of explosives. And, is now being propagated<br />in academia and of course by some of the "useful idiots" in the media.<br /><br />Come on America.....when the terrorists here and abroad see or hear this type of "crap"<br />they first laugh at our ignorance, and it only serves to make them feel that they are<br />winning this WAR OF TERROR on us....that they have engaged in since 1993 in Somalia<br />and the 1st attempt at blowing up the World Trade Center.<br /><br />P.S.....Jay....there were multiple eyewitnesses that saw the big jet descending at an<br /> unbelievable speed before it hit the Pentagon.....do you question their story ? <br />

Archive 09-14-2006 06:17 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I have to agree with you. Edited to be the kinder, gentler Leon...I did go on the attack at Jay B. for insinuating there wasn't a flight that hit the Pentagon...I'll just say that there was.....

Archive 09-14-2006 06:30 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Jason<br /><br />Unfortunately, the poll I cited is true. It came out several weeks ago and as soon<br /> as I find it, I will post a link to it.<br /><br />The results of this poll are not really that unusual, though, as I noted to Leon in a<br /> prior Thread....my observation is that there is this "1/3 Factor" in everyday life.<br />For example....during the Revolutionary War only 1/3 of the people supported George<br />Washington. If you look at the politics any given country you will find that 1/3 of the<br /> people are Liberals, 1/3 are Moderates, and 1/3 are Conservatives.<br /><br />But, the most appropriate example I can offer here, of the 1/3 Factor is.....if a BB player<br />consistently gets a HIT....every ONE out of THREE times at bat....he is a HOFer.<br /><br />T-Rex TED

Archive 09-14-2006 07:16 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ted- yes, in baseball one out of three is excellent. But in politics, if one out of three support the policies of our administration, that is strictly Bush league, pun intended.

Archive 09-14-2006 07:28 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Joe D, my experience was very similar to what you write...the sirens would ring in my head every night and wake me up...I threw all my clothes away because I couldn't have them in the house...it all rings quite true. I don't think I actually took a full breath for 4 months...<br /><br />You know the best part of that day was collapsing on my brother-in-law's front lawn and looking at the sky, before I was pulled to my feet by my nephews begging me to be the "all-time pitcher" for their neighborhood wiffle ball game...and it all happily faded away for a few minutes on a homemade baseball diamond that evening.<br /><br />Ted, interesting about that 1/3 rule...<br /><br />I guess it is easier for people to doubt and to listen to doubters, the less connected to an event they are...and never discount the need/desire of the doubter to draw attention to himself<br /><br />well, wherever you may be on this topic...thanks for listening.<br /><br />Jason

Archive 09-14-2006 07:32 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Ted, there is no doubt the Towers were hit by planes. As I said, since there is a plane mising, that is most likely what hit the Pentagon, but there a whole of things about the Pentagon attack that don't add up. The biggest being not a single security video being able to capture the plane on tape before it hit the building, yet there are at least two angles that should have shown the plane as it hit the building. I do know and understand what while happen to a plane when it hits a building at that speed. All you have to do is look at the planes that hit the Towers and you can see LARGE chunks of plane that passed thru the building. There whould a fair amount of large debris, especially from the tail section. I just keep an open mind to other possibilities, becuase I trust the Bush admistration about as far as I can throw one of planes that hit the Towers.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Archive 09-14-2006 07:38 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I saw an amateur video of the plane hitting the Pentagon. Somebody standing some distance from the building shot it on a hand held camera. Does anyone else remember seeing this, or am I just imagining it?

Archive 09-14-2006 08:23 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>1st.....BARRY....I really don't want to discuss politics with you....I value our 23 year<br /> friendship too much for that. But, I will leave you with this indisputable fact.......<br />in Nov 2004 GW Bush was relected by the largest number of people that ever voted<br />for a President....62,04,606.....and it was 51% of the vote.....Not 33%<br /><br />JAY B<br /><br />I don't really want to debate this anymore with you because it still hurts when I have<br />to deal with a skeptic like you over any event that occured on 9/11.<br />I just told you in the above post that no large fragments of Flt 93 were found in that field<br /> in western Pennsylvania......What don't you understand ? ?<br /><br />Therefore, why would you expect to find any large pieces of Flt 77 at the Pentagon ?<br /> You don't make any sense, man !<br /><br />And, forget the damn cameras....all they would have shown was a blurred streak....that is if<br /> they weren't obliterated in the crash. The plane was descending at a speed of 500+ mph.<br /> As I said....and I will repeat....there were many EYEWITNESSES that saw this plane streaking<br /> down from the sky and then a huge explosion as it hit the Pentagon.<br /><br />That's it......I can't deal with people's fantasies....that live in "La-La-Land". <br />

Archive 09-14-2006 08:36 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Hi Ted- I know we get in trouble when we discuss politics, but I would still like to just get in one quick comment and leave it at that- whatever spin you put on the one out of three number, it's tough to view our current president as popular and well respected. I think Americans are very unhappy with the state of the country right now, myself included. And I will say no more. And we're still friends, of course.

Archive 09-14-2006 09:00 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>joe brennan</b><p>THE GOLDEN RULE FOR FRIENDSHIP AND BUSINESS.<br /><br />Never discuss politics or religion.<br><br>People said it was a million dollar wound. But the government must keep that money, cause I ain't never seen a penny of it.

Archive 09-14-2006 09:20 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>youtube.com and search for pentagon. About the 3rd or 4th video shows SOMETHING hitting the ground a few feet short of the Pentagon and then skidding into the building, causing the explosion. Folks like Jay and the other theory conspiracists will say it's a Tomahawk missle or something but most folks believe it was an aircraft.<br /><br />As for the 1/3, I always found the 80/20 concept to be pretty much in play in most aspects of the world.....<br /><br />As for the current president.....not to beleaguer politics but if I'm not mistaken, he was RE-elected--even after the current conflict/War had started. We'll see just where we are after the fall elections--if they'll be a referendum on the war and Bush or what. I can only say where would we be if Gore had won the first election....oh wait, he did win the first election....or did he.....<br /><br />Anyone see Conspiracy Theory with Mel Gibson....great movie. Everytime the president leaves the country, there's some type of earthquake overseas or some B.S.....<br /><br />Sadly....although all the media coverage hit this past Monday, many will go back to the complacency we've grown accustomed to since that day, most forgetting about who hit us and where and why we were hit.

Archive 09-14-2006 09:26 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>My only comment on the topic is that for some, it may seem more comforting (in what way, I don't know how), to think that only the government could have pulled this off, instead of 19 terrorists with boxcutters, which in reality, is the real horror. <br /><br />What amuses me, is that the same people who buy into the conspiracy theory that it was the Bush Administration, are the same people who claim Bush is a fool, dummy, not that smart, etc. If he's not that smart, how'd his administration pull it off? <br /><br />On another note, anyone get anything in Leland's? <br />(Trying to keep this cardboard-related!)<br><br>Go Go White Sox<br />2005 World Series Champions!

Archive 09-14-2006 09:29 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. No doubt about it. Here is just one of many good articles on the subject:<br /><br /><a href="http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm</a><br /><br />The lack of large debris is a red herring. The towers were basically hollow tubes, so what little "large" debris made it through the buildings can be explained (and other than the landing gear of the plane that hit the south tower -- that is the smoking piece of debris that can be easily seen in the footage exiting to the north after impact -- I am not aware of any large pieces of the planes making it through the towers). Further, planes disintegrate when they hit rock, and when they hit the ground. The Pentagon is made of concrete, and Flight 77 hit the ground nearly simultaneously with hitting the first floor of the Pentagon. So, given these facts (and they are facts), why would anyone expect to see a plane-shaped hole in the Pentagon with the tail sticking out? Did anyone expect to see a tail sticking out of the ground at the Flight 93 crash site in Pennsylvania? Of course not.<br /><br />

Archive 09-14-2006 09:37 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>PC- to put it another way, four planes took off on 9/11 that never landed safely. If two hit the towers and one crashed in Pennsylvania, where was the fourth one other than hitting the Pentagon? If it didn't hit there, then it is unaccounted for. Not very likely.

Archive 09-14-2006 09:49 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Thanks....Tom B....Josh A....PC<br /><br />Your reinforcement of what I have said in my posts on this Thread is very refreshing.<br /><br />My Grandson, Ron, is dealing with this same conspiratorial "crap" on his campus at<br />the Univ. of Maine. Quite a few of his classmates are buying into the "JUNK-SCIENCE"<br /> that these "kooks" are ranting about. And, he cannot conduct a rational debate with<br /> them; because, when he hits them with the "real world" facts, they switch the debate<br /> by personally attacking him. <br /><br />

Archive 09-14-2006 09:57 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That's pretty interesting. Do you mean to say that kids today really don't believe 9/11 happened? Do they believe the holocaust happened? Obviously, I am out of touch with what goes on at colleges these days. I guess it is fashionable and cool to take a crazy position on things.

Archive 09-14-2006 10:06 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BARRY<br /><br />Most of the same "kooks" that dispute the real facts on what occured on 9/11/2001<br /> are also skeptical about the Holocaust, and other such major tragic events.<br /><br />And, this may surprise you, Barry....but a number of these kids are of Jewish parents.

Archive 09-14-2006 10:14 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>That is really shocking and disheartening and for Jewish parents to be so negligent is inexcusable.

Archive 09-14-2006 10:28 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Troy</b><p>Barry and Ted,<br /><br /> I live in Woodbridge VA about 25 miles south of Washington. I am, with 99% certainty, almost positive it was a sercurity camera from one of the many parking lots surrounding the Pentagon that caught the very last few seconds before impact that was shown on the news services here. There may be others I don't know about. I do not want to get caught up in this fight I just want to provide you with some info. A search of the news channels here may give further info.<br /><br />Troy,<br />US Navy 94-98 PO2 <br /><br />Edited for spelling and correctness.

Archive 09-14-2006 11:17 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Thanks Troy for that information.

Archive 09-14-2006 02:37 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Speaking of being "re-elected" (Don't you have to be elected first to be re-elected?), it seems funny that Kerry won by a landslide in ALL of the exit polls and then lost the computer count. I believe a statistician cited in Harpers put the odds of that sort of turn around at 10,000,000 to 1. Hmmm.<br />JimB

Archive 09-14-2006 04:34 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Here is the conspracy theory video:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=2771&where=index" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.videosift.com/story.php?id=2771&where=index</a><br /><br />Here is the rebutal:<br /><br /><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=nMpMyDB2Spw" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=nMpMyDB2Spw</a><br /><br />If I had to vote, it's a plane, but I tend to keep an open mind about most things.<br /><br />Just to belabor the politcal thing a bit, saw a great t-shirt a month or so ago:<br /><br /><b>The lastest Presidential popularity poll shows that 1/3 of all Americans are complete idiots.</b><br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

Archive 09-14-2006 04:42 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Greg Ecklund</b><p>Jim - I'm sorry but if you really believe that the 2004 election was some kind of conspiracy then you have gone WAY off the deep end.

Archive 09-14-2006 04:53 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JimB<br /><br />1st....It was later discovered that those early Exit Polls in 2004 that you are referring<br /> to were found to be skewed to favor Democrats. And, this polling outfit admitted it.<br /> Somewhere I have this entire report bookmarked; and, if it is still available I will post<br /> the link to it.<br /><br />2nd.....If the damn "media" hadn't prematurely called Florida for Gore before the<br />voting districts closed in Florida's Panhandle (Central Time).....Bush would have<br />won Florida in 2000 by a huge margin. In 2004 Bush had 3,964,522 votes to Kerry's<br />3,583,544 votes in Florida. Jim, that's a Bush advantage almost 400,000 votes.<br /><br />Furthermore, voters in states in the Central....Mountain....Pacific Time Zones were<br /> in effect disenfranchised by that egregious (and deliberate) early call by the media<br /> in their zeal to get Gore elected. Don't take my word for all this....there are excellent<br /> books that tell the whole story of the 2000 election.<br /><br />But, I am telling you Bush would have stomped Gore as he did Kerry (by 4 Million votes)<br /> if it wasn't for that "media fiasco".<br /><br />T-Rex TED

Archive 09-14-2006 05:44 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ted- please don't blame the media for the ills of the world. They are just the messengers. And Florida in 2000- I think we disagree again. But we still are definitely friends, right? Even though Gore won the election in 2000, I am willing to forgive and forget. Life goes on.

Archive 09-14-2006 05:51 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Guys, let's keep this on topic - which is more important than the 04 election or anything else. The one thing we can all agree upon: Islamic fundamentalists killed 3000 Americans in cold blood. My anger over this increases by the day.

Archive 09-14-2006 05:57 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I agree Jeff. Some of these more thought provoking threads tend to digress, and you are right that we are losing direction. Someone just posted that net54 celebrated its 5th anniversary. That means we were born just two days after 9/11. How could anybody even think baseball cards under those circumstances? I guess it's just an example of life has to go on.

Archive 09-14-2006 10:56 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Ted,<br />We obviously have different opinions about recent politics in the United States. The good thing is that we both live in America and good people can disagree - and perhaps even be friends. I probably should not have said anything. But what is done is done. I would definately prefer not to drag out a political discussion here, so I will politely be silent from here on out.<br />JimB

Archive 09-15-2006 12:25 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Is it 2008 yet?

Archive 09-15-2006 06:33 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>It's amazing how some other things can happen and be overshadowed by that day. I was 40 on Sept 5th, 2001.....which would have seemed ok, since 9/11 was a few days away. However, my mother in law passed away on August 23, leaving my wife an orphan with her only sibling passing away many years ago. They were extremely close. She/we were so devastated by that loss that 9/11 just added to the shock we were already in....somehow, I think that will be one of my worst birthdays ever..(*of course there was no celebrating). Yesterday I saw a car that said 40 B'day on the windows....and I was sad all over again....such is life. As Burdick said, to paraphrase, "Our cards can take us to places, away from ordinary life, and give solitude, not normally found".....which, many times, is good.....Never forget 9/11.....

Archive 09-15-2006 06:47 AM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Leon, wasn't it Thomas Jefferson who said that?...kidding aside, nobody who lived through 9/11 ever will forget it. It will however, become part of history, and as time passes we can only wonder how the event will be viewed by future generations. Somehow history has a way of taking strange turns.

Archive 09-15-2006 02:43 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>JASON<br /><br />Since you were concerned......here is the link to the Poll (conducted by Scripps Howard<br />News Service) regarding that 1/3 of the American people say that our government de-<br />liberately caused the events of 9/11 to send us into war. I referred to this survey in an<br /> earlier post on this Thread.<br /><br />It's sort of scary to see that many people think like this; especially, when everyone one<br /> of us witnessed these events unfold as we were glued to our TV's that morning. This<br /> article goes on to say that approx. 1/3 of Americans were also skeptical about what<br /> really happened at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941....but Jason, we did not have TV back<br /> then to see that event <br /><br /><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/279827_conspiracy02ww.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/attack/279827_conspiracy02ww.html</a>

Archive 09-15-2006 02:47 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Ted and others- if you want to hear something scary check this out: I was reading an article online about that charming fellow who shot 20 people on a Montreal Campus yesterday. The article mentioned that he liked to play an online video game called "Super Columbine Massacre." How disturbing is it that such a video game even exists!

Archive 09-15-2006 03:13 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>yikes...I guess America really changed after that 1950s quiz show scandal, huh?<br /><br />a healthy dose of skepticism is one thing, but I'm not so sure this is healthy...

Archive 09-15-2006 03:18 PM

OT, Remembrance
 
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'll accept the fact that people are angry with the government (count me in on that group); and I don't doubt the U.S. might have wanted a war in the middle east; but to say that the government was complicit in the 9/11 attacks is psychotic.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:04 AM.