enough is enough
 

Call for a National boycott of the NFL for Sunday November 12th, Veterans Day Weekend. Boycott all football telecast, all fans, all ticket holders, stay away from attending any games, let them play to empty stadiums. Pass this post along to all your friends and family. Honor our military, some of whom come home with the American Flag draped over their coffin. Continue with the weekly boycott of televised games. MAKE THIS SPREAD NATIONWIDE !!!!!

Already with you David! Hopefully we won't have to wait until Veteran's Day before we see some results. Between the penalties, instant replays, me first dances on inconsequential plays, and ridiculous dog peeing TD dances, NFL telecasts are almost unwatchable already. Add in politically charged, hollow protests against the flag and it's an easy decision...done.

Not gonna happen. And as a proud American and son of a Veteran I very much understand what my father fought for, and as importantly, what he fought against. My late father completely understood and supported the importance of peaceful protest, including those raised against the flag. Don't get me wrong, he did not like such displays, but made it clear to me that they were a part of this Country's heritage and separated us from tyranny.

P.S. I won't even get into the misunderstanding many have as to why these kneelings are made and what is being protested. It is not the American military and those who serve or who have died. Apart from that and again, long live the First Amendment.

I won't get political because this is a sports forum, not politics. I'll simply reply with nope!

Thank you to your father for serving.

Enjoy watching the final round of the LPGA tour event from Tucson, AZ gentleman. Looking forward to less crowds at Buffalo Wild Wings

Thank you to your father for serving. I don't think anybody disagrees with their (NFL) right to protest (even though most, including myself, doesn't like it). It's how they're doing it that bothers people. Nobody, and I mean nobody has the right to protest while at work, while they're on the clock, while they're being paid - without the approval of their employer.

If you think otherwise, then the next time you're in a courtroom and the bailiff comes in and says "all rise" you just remain seated. When the judge asks you why you didn't rise, tell him it's your First Amendment right to protest and see where that get you. Again, it's not their (NFL) protesting that bothers most, it's the venue in which they're doing it. If they really want to protest, let them go do it in their free time - not while they're being paid to work.

It's amazing how well the protests are working. Sunday there were lots of games, but there was only one on Monday, then none on Tuesday and Wednesday...

Has nothing to do with the military. Nada. But that's perfectly clear. People want to turn it into something it's not. Have 3 friends who fought in Afghanistan and not a one of them gives a hoot about any of this.

The Star Spangled Banner has nothing to do with the military? Who knew?

Edited to add: The Star Spangled Banner is a military tune. It was written in a time of war, about war (the bombardment of Ft McHenry). The Star Spangled Banner is what is being protested. Blacks have labeled it as racist. ..

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-c...#axzz4u4uQU1Tr

If it's not about the Star Spangled Banner, then why don't they just get out on the field at halftime and lock arms? Why not after the game? Why not some other venue?

I haven't read a single statement from a protester that mentioned being anti-military. Every statement I've read has been about fighting institutionalized racism. The anthem is seen as being a reflection of American values, but those values aren't always in place in society. Take for example the African American men who served in World War II against fascism and genocide who then came home to segregated bathrooms. That is why they protest during the anthem.

No, read my earlier post. They protest against the anthem because the anthem is racist...

http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-c...#axzz4u4uQU1Tr

Everything is racist nowadays. Can't have historical plaques, can't have historical statues, can't have a national anthem, can't have anything that represents history because it's all racist.

+1

Well, did you read the stanza from the anthem that is no longer recited? It is quite racist. But beyond that I think it's more important to listen to the people who are actually protesting and their self-professed motivations, none of which seem to mention the military at all.

As an aside, I don't think there is anything wrong with revisionist history. We are always changing the way we do things to better reflect the moment in time that we're in. I'll give you another example. Were you aware that prior to World War II Americans saluted the flag by extending the right arm to it? That tradition ended when the Nazi party adopted a similar salute. I don't think we're worse for wear for abandoning it.

People are protesting what they think is unfair racial treatment in America. Has zilch to with the military. A protest is about what the people protesting say its about. Not what other people want to turn it into.

Not everything is racist, only the things that are. Racism just happens to be a prevalent and shameful part of American history

Racist? Not Racist? Whatever!
Military? Non-military? Whatever!

Do you believe that anybody has the right to protest while at work? While on the job? While being paid?

If you fire all the players, who is going to play the games? I don't think it's realistic to look at NFL players the same way you would an average employee. For example, is it reasonable for a normal employee to assume that failing a drug test would mean termination? I would say so. But that is not a foregone conclusion in the NFL.

Employers have the right to make their own policies. If I failed a drug test at work, yes, I would be fired. Then again, if I beat my wife, it's none of their (my employer's) business where the NFL takes disciplinary action.

But, that didn't answer the question. Do you believe employees have the right to protest while at work on company time?

As far as firing all the players, I didn't say that and I don't want that. I fat deduction to their paycheck by order of a fine would be nice to see though.

The second the NFL starts fining players is the same second they all sit out. It would ruin the NFL.

I think employees should enjoy the same rights at work as they do outside of it. I don't feel as though I should have to surrender any freedoms because I need to feed myself. There are always going to be lines you can't cross in a professional setting, but I don't think that line is sitting down.

LOL, seriously? It's 10:45 here in Houston. I get off work at noon on Fridays. It's my right to go have a beer after work if I choose. You really think I should be afforded that same right while at work?

Bolded the part that addresses that.

Then, let's go back to my example with Todd. He's an attorney. When the bailiff comes in the courtroom and says, "All rise," do you think it's Todd's right to stay seated in protest?

I don't really see the connection to the discussion. The court has its own procedures in place and as far as I know there is no direct law that requires you to rise, although the judge has authority to hold you in contempt for not following their directives. None of that really has anything to do with the NFL, the protests, the spirit behind the protests, anti-military sentiment, or enjoying personal freedoms at work. A judge would hold you in contempt for disrupting court proceedings, not for exercising a freedom.

Teachers and union employees go on strike all the time. They aren't fired for it because it's their right to strike. A strike is a form of protest.

You don't see the connection because you don't want to see the connection. There is no connection to employees who strike either. But, since you mentioned it, do striking employees get paid (and I mean by their employer)? Nope. So, my argument about their right to protest at work still holds true. They shouldn't do it while on the clock.

We need to make a few more examples like Kaepernick because obviously some NFL players are too stupid to get it.

I don't know what makes somebody stupid because they're tired of institutionalized racism. And I don't know what makes someone stupid for taking a stand against an injustice they feel they have the power to change. That is as American as it gets.

They're stupid because they choose to do it while at work. That's what makes them stupid. Let them do it on their own free time, not at work.

The NFL can stop paying them any time it likes. It knows the consequences of that decision. These players hold immense power in their profession and I am of the opinion that it's great to see how they choose to wield that power.

I think you label them as "stupid" because you don't like it and would prefer not to see it. For you I offer the LPGA as an alternative on Sundays.

No, once again, they're stupid because they tried (and did) make an example of Kaepernick, but the players didn't learn anything from that. I hope it happens with more players. Hey, I'm fine with a bunch of scrubs suiting up and playing on Sunday.

People vote with their feet. Either the protestors will win or the protestors that protest the protesters...... I not going to give my opinion on what side i am on but at least its not violent protests or causing anyone else to get hurt (ie. preventing an ambulance from going somewhere etc)

Again, i may be for or against it..but at least theres that..

Or perhaps the players are willing to take that chance because the issue is that important to them. Not sure why anyone would label that "stupid" but I have my suspicions as to why you choose that term. As a follow-up, if the flag and the anthem is that sacred to you and others, why not just boycott the games? I mean no one's forcing you to watch a bunch of stupid, unpatriotic African Americans disrespecting the military. Seems like complete hypocrisy to complain about it, condemn it, and then spend all day watching games. Just saying

Gee, there's a great idea. Somebody should start a thread about that. Oh, wait a minute, somebody already did.
:rolleyes:

I'm going out on a limb here, Dan, but I think that's what the OP meant when he said "Call for a National boycott of the NFL for Sunday November 12th, Veterans Day Weekend"

Any more brilliant suggestions?

I don't watch major league sports much anyway but I don't think these guys should be protesting anything, while hard working Americans are paying to see them play football and take their minds off of the things they are protesting, at least for a few hours. Just the wrong venue. If I was a fan I wouldn't be any longer,. Again, just my right as everyone has the right to do what they want to. I do believe the players have every right to protest while in uniform. And I believe each owner has every right to fire them too. It's America. oh, and happy collecting too.

You have to admit though if you're there to watch football, the game is still played. The anthem has no bearing on the game.

Before Jackie, players, fans, owners, the media and society in general tried to keep African Americans from playing professional baseball. They succeeded for nearly a century. There is nothing that makes me prouder to be an American than to see those same disenfranchised people now in a position of power within their sports.

You missed my point smart ass. I'm asking you specifically why not just boycott? Why wait til November 12th? I mean to both bitch and complain and then watch is a complete joke.

I agree Leon, if you don't like it don't watch. Stand for something (no pun intended)

Let me be perfectly clear. I'm not watchimg.

Good for you. I respect your call to action. Don't DVR it either

And here I thought that "All Rise" was only uttered at Yankee Stadium.:confused:

So so SOOOOO many angles to this. Here is my breakdown and viewpoint(s).

1) First and foremost, we need to look at the person who started this movement - Colin Kaepernick. Yes, the racial minority person who has made millions in this country, and was raised by white people, had this to say about why he knelt for the Anthem: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." Again, a black person/person of color, who has made millions in this country and was raised by white people, said that. Additionally, he blatantly stated that he is protesting the flag, which represents this country, the freedoms of this country, and the ultimate sacrifice given to protect those freedoms.

2) Kaepernick's unemployment is due to his play on the field not equaling out the image risk that comes with hiring him. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. He chose to exercise his 1st Amendment rights to free speech and the right to protest at work. There are consequences that come with one's actions, and the consequences thus far have not violated The Constitution.

3) Nothing changed in this country to further any supposed "racial oppression" in the past year, so why are all of these players just NOW protesting the supposed social injustices? Why weren't they with Kaepernick last year?

4) As stated above, Kaepernick was protesting the Flag, and therefore protesting the Anthem & this country as a whole. The players that state they are with Kaepernick, that this has nothing to do with the Flag/the Anthem/the military, they're full of $#%!. That's EXACTLY what this has to do with. If you don't think this country provides each individual with the same freedoms/rights, then yes, you would be protesting the country.

5) I don't care if you want to protest, that's your Constitutional right. Just don't do it at your job that I and many others are paying the salary for. Now, with that being said, I am one that doesn't agree with their agenda/reason for protesting, but that's a topic for a different forum.

6) Taya Kyle (Chris Kyle's - American Sniper - wife) challenged the NFL to affect real change, instead of essentially being a bunch of lazy, cowardly "social justice warriors." Here is here letter to the NFL: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...er-to-nfl.html. She's dead-freaking-on. If you actually think there's social injustice/racial oppression in this country, then do something about it. Don't take a knee like a pansie; get out and put your money where your mouth is. Hold community events, work with the communities, families, and law enforcement to come together and build better relations. Taking a knee does NOTHING but drive a wedge into this country and create a bigger divide.

7) The league-wide protests took place after Trump called them all out. So now are you protesting racial oppression/social injustice, or are you protesting the President? By the way, he wasn't wrong about the product on the field suffering because of the penalties. Football is borderline unwatchable with all of the laundry consistently littering the field.

8) Don't ridicule me for being PO'd about this and making my voice heard. I have the same rights and freedoms as the next person, and it's hypocritical to say otherwise.

9) This "movement" loses even more credibility with me when the players stand for UK's Anthem (where the Slave Trade started) and never mention the Middle East/Asia, where there's the highest percentage of slaves. As well, don't complain about "racism" then hold up your fist to symbolize "black power." That furthers the racial issues in this country, as it symbolizes the empowerment of a skin color. SKIN COLOR DOES. NOT. MATTER.

10) There is some fault on both sides. The PA fire chief that referred the those who are kneeling as the n-word, etc. No place for that.

11) This whole "unity" thing is crap. You're getting hit where it hurts - your wallet - and now you're quickly working on damage control so you can stay rich and employed in this country that supposedly "oppresses" you. Just like the Browns RB Isaiah Crowell quietly giving money to the police union(s) after posting a picture of a police officer being decapitated. It's hollow. Stand with respect for the Anthem, put your tails between your legs, and go out and actually do something about your issues with this country.

12) The NFL and NBA have lost me, and quite possibly forever. Between the kneeling & what I view as a protest against this country, Curry/LeBron attacking Trump and those who voted for him, and Gregg Popovich saying that white people need to be made uncomfortable, I have better ways to allocate my money and time. I called DirecTV and had my FREE year long NFL Sunday Ticket subscription cancelled. I've seen a couple smarta$$ comments telling people who are boycotting the NFL to enjoy the LPGA tour on Sundays. Actually, I will enjoy watching baseball, golf, tennis, and NASCAR more, so thank you.

I love this country and everything it stands (oh there's that word again - stand) for. Is it perfect? Hell no, but it's the greatest damn country in this world and I take exception to anyone that wants to attack it in any way, shape, or form. Recognize the freedoms and opportunities that our Founding Fathers and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice have afforded us. Use those to constructively build a better society without destroying the framework. We have gotten so far away from being decent human beings and loving thy neighbor. God Bless you, yours, and America.

That's the best I have without being TOO political. Sorry Leon if this post breaks any rules.

Can you point to one statement on the protest that has anything to do with protesting the flag or the military? I have not read a single statement that even touches on those topics except to expressly state those topics are not related to the protest.

I'm sorry, let me bold and italicize this for you so it's easier to see.

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color." - Colin Kaepernick on why he knelt for the Anthem.

The military aspect is an understood connection. The Flag moves with the last breath of each individual who died protecting it. The Flag represents the freedoms many gave the ultimate sacrifice to protect. Not sure what else the Flag could mean to you.

Numerous players have said they are with Kaepernick, and support his "goal". If this had nothing to do with the Flag, why would they kneel for the Star Spangled Banner, yet stand for God Save the Queen?

Again, I can't be political on here, but many of us feel this is more of an attack on our country than it is an attempt to better our already great society. Otherwise, you would probably see these players working in places like the south side of Chicago to help better those communities and relations.

Well you are right that he said that but my interpretation of that statement is a social one, not that he's against America or the flag, since it implies he would stand for both if not for the injustices he sees in our society.

You just got b!tched slapped with some harsh truth and you're still posting? You're a fool.

I don't feel like one. I feel like the opposite of one. I feel on the right side of history. I look forward to living in a world where people care more about human beings than who stands up when.

http://sharing.wcpo.com/sharewrtv/ph....0_640_480.png

lolololol

You edited your post, but I already quoted it and I'll answer your question. Yes, he is a fool. He's holding that flag upside down. Any more ridiculous pictures with ridiculous questions?

This from Nick Saban, not exactly one of my favorite people:

"Saban was asked by a caller who said he is a military veteran about the protests by NFL players during the national anthem, and whether former players who didn't stand for the anthem would be allowed back on his sideline, according to BamaOnline's Charlie Potter.

"I don't think that what these people are doing is in any way, shape or form are meant to disrespect a veteran or somebody like yourself who has worked so hard, fought so hard, sacrificed so much for all of us to have the quality of life that we want to have," Saban said.

He went on to elaborate that, part of what makes this country great, is the ability to express yourself how you see fit."

"But one of the things that you also fought for and made sacrifice for was that we all could have the freedom to have choice, in terms of what we believe, what we did and what we said," Saban said. "Look, I respect people's individual rights. I have my opinion, in terms of what I would do and how I would do it. And I would not want to ever disrespect the symbols that represent the values of our country. But I also respect individual differences that other people have, and I think they have the right to express those. Whether it's our players or somebody else, whether I agree or disagree, I do think they have the right to do that."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...pect-veterans/

Of course he's going to say that. That's about as politically correct as it gets. His job is to get the best talent possible to commit to play for Alabama. The majority of top talent happens to come from the black demographic, which supposedly feels oppressed. He's not going to speak with his balls and risk pissing them off.

Which brings up a great point here. What's the difference between him saying how he actually feels and the consequences that come with it vs. the NFL players protesting and us (the fans) protesting them?

You must have WAY WAY WAY better eye sight than me. I looked VERY hard at the word "Flag" and didn't see anything written between the lines. Amazing.

And you're an ignorant asshole. The flag is a symbol, the constitution is what this is all about and the actual execution of it's intent and purpose. You can bastardized the point all you want but that is what this symbolic gesture is all about and for the record you don't have to be black to support it, you just need to see things from a perspective that is inherently foreign to you

Amazing to me that in all the "angles" you numerically lay out there's not a single one (aside from #10) that includes the angle of the African American. Actually it's not amazing at all, it's typical and why this country is a mess. Your points are all limited to your singular perspective on the issue and include no consideration for anyone other than yourself and the perspective of white America. Basically you don't condone the "N" word, what a guy. Congrats and thanks for waisting my time.

1) If this is about the Constitution, then it is about the Flag and it is a protest against this country. The Constitution is an aspect the Flag symbolizes.

2) If this is about the Constitution, then can you please show me where in the Constitution it states who these rights are and are not extended to?

3) I really hate when people tell me I need to see things from the other perspective. Here's why: it leads to questions I can never get an answer for.

- Why aren't these athletes protesting the violence in the south side of Chicago, that just recorded its 500th official homicide of 2017 this past weekend?

- If these minorities/people of color were truly oppressed, why is 68% of the NFL and 74% of the NBA black?

- Why is the leader (Colin Kaepernick) of this "movement" a supporter of Fidel Castro, a truly oppressive dictator?

- Why don't these athletes - or anyone who feels oppressed by America for that matter - find another country to live in if the US is truly that oppressive?

You should read the rest of the quote. That is where the social aspect comes in:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

At the time he made this quote Alton Sterling and Philando Castille has just been killed.

Eric Reid joined him 4 days later in his protest. Here is what Eric Reid said:

"We chose to kneel because it's a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy."

Give up Packs. This is a fruitless conversation

You're right, I'm not going to speak for a black person. Why? I'm white. It's not my place to speak for them (unlike those who speak for Native Americans when it comes to Chief Wahoo). I am, however, an American, which affords me the right to voice my opinion.

Thank you for feeling my post wasted your time essentially because I am white, and because I am white my opinion apparently shouldn't matter on this subject.

You know what, nevermind. Your generation will be gone soon enough

No D!ckhead Dan (I bet you get called that a lot) your ignorant posts are "waisting" your time.

It's "wasting" you stupid moron.

It's about perspective taking you tool. I'm white too but I can still take the perspective of others and understand where they're coming from

I'm 23. And that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

Then you're ignorant and that's scary

I'm on my phone at a bar about to meet up with a woman. You should do the same

I asked four factually-based questions that you have not answered, yet I'm ignorant.

I'd rather not. That would be considered cheating, since I'm already engaged to a beautiful woman.

Typical liberal move, Dan Hicks. If someone disagrees with you, just wish them death. Nice edit though.

Best point you've made all afternoon. How about this, make a black friend

Maybe. But given that he lives and works in a state that fought to defeat the very flag you honor, that in many ways proudly stands on that heritage to this day, and who, just this week, had one party nominate for the U.S. Senate a man twice removed from the Alabama Supreme Court for refusing to follow the rulings of the US Supreme Court, I would say his remarks carry weight well beyond political correctness. I seriously doubt that all the Bama Boosters enjoyed his comments, yet he made them anyway. Then again, he may have just spoken his true beliefs, regardless of fallout. Believe it or not, it happens.

Wish them? Lol. Acknowledge it's coming, well...yeah

I don't make friends based on skin color. I make friends based on common interests and content of character. And this is my last response to someone that doesn't answer any of the questions I asked.

Why even bring it up?

So you don't have a black friend I'd venture to guess. Get some perspective

Yes, everything...even Dr. Seuss books.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...as-racist.html

If you don't want to read the article, let me sum it up for you. "Dr. Seuss’s illustrations are steeped in racist propaganda, caricatures, and harmful stereotypes."

Wow! Who knew?

I think staying in the locker room might border on disrespectful. Kneeling to me is not, it's just making a statement, much as Smith and Carlos did decades ago.

If these athletes even want to try and make a difference they should stop declining invitations to the White House. They should go and have an open and honest dialogue with the president about their concerns. That would be newsworthy and maybe a start. Doing what they are doing during the national anthem is taking the easy way out. They have an audience they should use it...

it's just communism like these worthless protests are. entitled little children throwing tantrums. unions, protests, marching...etc Marxist, smug, rubbish.

how about you judge your friends based on character and not in their ability to make you presentable to your communist cohorts?

and your communistic ignorance shows it's face again. This has nothing to do with the constitution. zero, zilch, nada.

the first amendment issues you protections from the govt that's it. It does not apply to your job, your private life...etc You have a right to not be arrested for saying things the govt doesn't like. But, you are not free from facing consequences for your choices. If you say things I don't like, I can fire you. If you say things in a place of business they don't like they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you can be arrested for trespassing.


oh, and btw, if you are going to call people tools and be a smug little twat, bring that to me man, I'm not a victim nor am I frightened of internet tough guy communists on the internet. Grow up, your POV is for children.

Unless you are a middle class suburban white liberal, then you and only you understand the plight of poor people and how they should let you speak for them as you know that they aren't capable of speaking for themselves! In fact, it would be better if the government took care of them!

I find it so funny how the modern left is so suffering from cognitive dissonance that they can't see how racist, elitist and demeaning they sound.

Wow some interesting stuff in this thread. I will only comment on protesting, I believe we all have the right to do it just not at work.:)

This is not a protest, it is just a new way for idiots to show their stupidity.
Just like the morons who burned the Lincoln bust to protest slavery.
You can't fix stupid.