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Peter_Spaeth 07-08-2017 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos4evr (Post 1678825)
appeal to authority logical fallacy. FACTS ARE FACTS and your amusing anecdotal, based on nothing, made up bunch of silly nonsense claims only tell us one thing. ex players are generally the worst people to ask about the game.

anyone who would dismiss Ted Williams' frankly AMAZING career because they walked too much and didn't win a ring is so amazingly fucking stupid that their opinion on everything from soup to nuts should be called into question as well as their sanity.

Maybe he thinks Bonds sucked too.

Peter_Spaeth 07-08-2017 03:18 PM

Nick probably knows this, but I bet there are graphs and charts showing that even the best hitters fall way off in terms of hitting stats on balls outside the strike zone.

Sean 07-09-2017 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 1678749)
No, it is my opinion from playing the game most of my life. No one is going to walk every at bat, but I do know that you rarely score a run by walking. It is a poor team concept when your best player is trying to walk instead of driving in runs.

We are never going to agree on this, but to me zero rings is evidence that this walk first approach wins at fantasy baseball, but doesn't produce real championships. It's not like Williams didn't play on some good teams. You can give him a pass, I won't.

Regarding this dismissal of Ted Williams based on his lack of championships, I recall watching an episode of "Sports Reporters" in the late '80s. Dick Schaap was interviewing a group of reporters who covered baseball in the '40s and '50s. I'm sorry, but I can't recall their names. One question that he asked was "Who was better, Dimaggio or Williams?" One of the men replied "You want to know the difference between Dimaggio and Williams? I'll tell you the difference. Lefty Gomez, Red Ruffing, Spud Chandler, Whitey Ford, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and Vic Raschi."

My point (and the sportswriter's) is that you can't judge a ballplayer's ability solely on championships. Williams was a great hitter, and if the Red Sox didn't have enough pitching to match the Yankees this shouldn't diminish his reputation.

Peter_Spaeth 07-09-2017 04:14 PM

DiMaggio also had Gehrig at the beginning, Berra at the end, and Dickey, Gordon, Keller, Henrich, Rizzuto, and others I am forgetting in between.

egri 07-10-2017 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1679140)
Regarding this dismissal of Ted Williams based on his lack of championships, I recall watching an episode of "Sports Reporters" in the late '80s. Dick Schaap was interviewing a group of reporters who covered baseball in the '40s and '50s. I'm sorry, but I can't recall their names. One question that he asked was "Who was better, Dimaggio or Williams?" One of the men replied "You want to know the difference between Dimaggio and Williams? I'll tell you the difference. Lefty Gomez, Red Ruffing, Spud Chandler, Whitey Ford, Allie Reynolds, Eddie Lopat and Vic Raschi."

My point (and the sportswriter's) is that you can't judge a ballplayer's ability solely on championships. Williams was a great hitter, and if the Red Sox didn't have enough pitching to match the Yankees this shouldn't diminish his reputation.

And, DiMaggio had the advantage of not having to face those pitchers. The only HOF pitcher the Red Sox had during DiMaggio's career was Lefty Grove, who was washed up by the time Williams debuted.

bravos4evr 07-10-2017 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1678827)
I'm not sure that's true in basketball where you have five men on the floor at once and all sorts of complex interactive things are going on and a lot of things great players do don't show up in the box score. Baseball, where it's a succession of mano a manos and nearly everything can be measured, for sure.

IDK man, Jordan needed Pippen to win,(and a better supporting cast) Barkley had great playoff numbers and never got one because he either didn't have the supporting cast or was unlucky enough to play that amazing Bulls team.

bravos4evr 07-10-2017 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1678831)
Nick probably knows this, but I bet there are graphs and charts showing that even the best hitters fall way off in terms of hitting stats on balls outside the strike zone.

indeed, unless you are a real freak like Vlad Guerrero (who somehow kept good stats even with a high swing rate on balls out of the zone), a batter should attempt to swing at strikes and not at balls. Better contact, better quality of contact and, .....................wait for it...................... better launch angles and exit velocities!

packs 07-11-2017 09:11 AM

There is a saying in the Dominican: you can't walk off the island. Young hitters there hate walking because it takes away from their ability to showcase their power, which they know is key to playing in America.

Peter_Spaeth 07-11-2017 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bravos4evr (Post 1679484)
IDK man, Jordan needed Pippen to win,(and a better supporting cast) Barkley had great playoff numbers and never got one because he either didn't have the supporting cast or was unlucky enough to play that amazing Bulls team.

Right I did not mean to imply in basketball even the greatest players can do it alone. My only point and maybe I didn't make it well was that perhaps much more than in baseball great players do things in the flow of a game that may not be readily quantified. So, for example, we can't just look at Russell and say well his stats aren't that great so he must not have been that good.

KMayUSA6060 07-12-2017 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1679660)
There is a saying in the Dominican: you can't walk off the island. Young hitters there hate walking because it takes away from their ability to showcase their power, which they know is key to playing in America.

I wish one of their keys was learning English. Haha.

packs 07-12-2017 11:37 AM

I think it would be just as nice for American born players in Japan to learn Japanese.

MacDice 07-12-2017 11:17 PM

If the number of World Series rings get you into the HOF the. Where is Frank Crosetti?

Peter_Spaeth 07-13-2017 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacDice (Post 1680364)
If the number of World Series rings get you into the HOF the. Where is Frank Crosetti?

Or Phil Rizzuto? Oh wait...

KMayUSA6060 07-13-2017 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1680174)
I think it would be just as nice for American born players in Japan to learn Japanese.

I agree. That's called assimilation.


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