Let's discuss the 1910 H801-7 Old Mill Cabinet. Show 'em if you got 'em.
 

Just curious what everyone has to say on the cabinet cards and who would like to share:

They sold rather cheaply in ebay!

Ted,

Although the one pictured doesn't have any pinholes, the offset is paper loss.

I expected them to go much higher, but I held back on bidding

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Well I was an underbidder on the Wehrell. I would love to add one of these one day. Perhaps even a VA League one or while im dreaming......a Richmond Colt!!

Seriously though they must be very tough as I have been blown out on quite a few. Even poor conditioned ones dont seem to fall through the cracks much. I am eager to see what others have to say about them myself.

I thought they went for about what they should, given the conditions. Great cards..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-H801-7-...p2047675.l2557

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-H801-7-...p2047675.l2557

.

I was looking at some older sales and sgc 1.5s went for 4800 and 6k respectively

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The one I sold last year, a bit nicer condition, went for 3100. I sold another privately to a board member for 3500?ish, a few years back. I have seen other nice ones go for the 4k range....maybe more if there is another player association or team desirability. We all have our own experiences. Happy Collecting!!

My favorite set!
 

Old Mill Cabinets are my favorite set!

Here is my lone example: Joseph Laughlin, Danville Red Sox. The Crown Jewel of my collection!

Although it's the most expensive card I ever purchased, I consider it money well spent.

Ironically, my first T210 was also Joseph Laughlin.


Patrick

Working on an updated OMC checklist
 

I'm working on putting together an updated checklist on the OMCs.

Does anyone have a list of the Old Mill Cabinets that were sold as a lot in the September 29 2010 Clean Sweep Auction? I saved just the cover from the auction, and lost the info in a computer crash.

Figured I try here, before I send Steve Verkman an email.

Thanks in advance for the assistance.

My email is vintagecatcher@myfairpoint.net

Thanks,

Patrick

Found the pages for the Clean Sweep Auction on Sept. 29, 2019
 

Found the list of 19 OMCs sold in the Sept. 29 2010 Clean Sweep Auction. I saved the auction pages luckily.

Patrick

Saw that you needed info from the CSA Old Mill auction but didn't see your follow-up post so went and scanned the pages for you. It's the only Verkman catalog I have saved. I remember being plenty pissed that they were sold as one lot. Would have liked a shot at a few but the aggregate lot was more than I wanted to spend. Anyway, since I scanned everything I thought others might like to see them so here goes.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...lls%20Back.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...ls%20Cover.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...lls%20Lot1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_...lls%20Lot2.jpg

Brian, did you win either of the two? I was watching them, but left them for a couple buddies that I knew had more interest than I.

Thanks David!
 

Thanks David,

Have the cover from the Clean Sweep Auction as the front of my inventory book, and I found the other pages tucked in another notebook.

Hope you are still enjoying Mr. Wingo!

Regards,

Patrick

Thanks David,
I'm pretty sure I saved that catalog, but finding it might be difficult at the moment.

Hope you are well Brian


PS I thought the two cabinets on EBay sold for about what I expected considering the condition and that they were both catalogued subjects.

Difficult player identification
 

Decided I would work on the checklist for the set and get the full name for each confirmed player.

The Derrick OMC will be hard to identify since it seems there were 2 Derrick brothers playing on the 1910 Greenville Spinners.

Claud "Deek" Derrick and Fred Derrick.

Here are the Baseball Reference links:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=derric001cla

http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=derric001fre

Both were 6' and 175 pounds.

Claud did have a cup of tea in the Majors from 1910-1914.

Baseball reference has a picture for Claud but not for Fred.

Claud played only 2 games for the As in 1910 so both Derrick's were with Greenville for most of the year.

More research is needed, and a large clean scan of the Derrick OMC would help as well.

Patrick

Awesome thread. Thanks for sharing the images from the clean sweep auction, I'd never seen those before.

Patrick, is Old Cardboard's checklist of 37 known players way off?

Hello Patrick. The OMC Derrick pictured is in fact C.L Derrick unless the T210 set labeled it wrong. Wouldnt be the first time for the Red Borders. Im very interested to see your confirmed list once finished. Sorry for the fuzzy scan I must have bumped the table lol

Thanks Jason!
 

Thanks Jason for the scan.

I just discovered that there are both Derricks, C.L. Derrick and F.B. Derrick, have cards in Series #5 after looking at a listing in an old REA auction. Nice that they added the initials on the Derrick cards.

The existing checklists aren't too far off. Look's like the list is closer to now to 40 cabinets, and of course, I would assume other examples may surface in some old-time collections.

I have full names for 38 of the 40 players on my current checklist. See the thread on "T210 Mystery Players regarding the 2 non-roster players.

Patrick

Any chance Joe Jackson with the Spinners could be a mystery player?

Unlikely that Joe Jackson has an OMC
 

Hi JC,

Welcome back to the forum.

Jefferson Burdick assigned the Old Mill Cabinets with the American Card Catalog number of H807-1. Many collectors have not agreed with this classification, and have suggested that the set should have had a "T" classification instead of the "H" designation.

As Leon has often stated over the years, Burdick's classification are usually correct. The distinction of why he choose an "H" classification is simple: Old Mill Cabinets were designed to be "window advertising" for merchants selling Old Mill Cigarettes.

Similar to the Boston Garter Cabinets, Old Mill Cabinets were designed to bring attention to the product as a visual merchandising tool. Their purpose was to advertise the product on the store front level as opposed to being the prize received for purchasing the product. It is also believed that they served the purpose as "toppers" that were placed on top of the cases of cigarettes that the merchants received.

The ad on the back of the OMCs hints to where the focus with regards to marketing and distribution would be located.

The backs state:

OLD MILL CIGARETTES Blue Bloods everyone. Made of Virginia and Carolina tobaccos---pedigreed leaf. Blended exquisitely and wrapped in genuine WHEAT STRAW paper-- the kind you have always used in rolling your own cigarettes. MILD AND SATISFYING

H807-1 Old Mill Cabinets use player images from players in only 3 of the 8 series in the T210 set. Only from Series #2, #5, and #7 are the images pulled from to create the larger Old Mill Cabinets. These series represent the Virginia League, Carolina Association, and the Eastern Carolina League. The same area where the Old Mill tobacco originated from.

Highlight the local players with the local product...BUY LOCAL!

The fact that only players from these three series have been found on Old Mill Cabinets would rule out the likelihood that Joe Jackson would have an OMC. His issued T210 was in Series #8. Although Joe Jackson did spend time with the Greenville Spinners in 1910 before being called up...so one can still hold out hope that one exists! There is a very slim chance since 3 OMCs have been found that have no corresponding card found in the T210 set. These players are: Walt Doane (Roanoke Tigers), Charles "Bunny" Hearn (Wilson Tobacconists), and Harry Spratt (Roanoke Tigers).

Patrick

Which came first?
 

Another question that I have is when were the H807-1 Old Mill Cabinets created in relationship to the T210s? Furthermore, which set was first?

Here is another fascinating fact about the 2 sets. The Woolums (Lynchburg) is a horizontal orientation in the H807-1 OMC set, whereas, his T210 is cropped closer and is a vertical orientation.


Patrick

Hey Patrick and good to hear from you. I didn't realize the cabinets only came from 3 of the 8 series. Good to know. Tried buying the last two that came up forsale but settled on being the bridesmaid... lol

If there ever was a time for a horizontal T210, that was it.
Send feedback to Old Mill customer service?

Patrick--

Thanks for showing the Woolums OM cabinet. And, JC, good to see you posting.

I think there is a practical reason for Woolums being presented in vertical instead of horizontal orientation--the frame around T210s often did not allow for full images. A simple example is Simmons (see below). In his T209 card, the ball is about a foot in front of his glove. In his T210 card, the ball has been moved next to his glove. Why the move? The ball would have been out of the frame if the original shot had been retained. Old Mill made these changes frequently and they were done to accommodate the size of the area in which an image was presented. It's another reason I like T209s so much--bigger images, especially of players in stadium poses (my faves), and b/w photographs. That being said, I also love T210s.

Cheers, Mike

PS--If you'd like to see all 43 examples of player poses shared by T209 and T210, you can follow this link to my t209-contentnea.com website:

https://t209-contentnea.com/t209-con.../shared-poses/

It would be interesting to discover how many of the shared poses were used as H801-7 cabinets.

Cheers, Mike

Going Horizontal
 

What's puzzling is that a horizontal pose was issued in the T210 set in Series #3 with the Morris T210, so why did they choose to issue the Woolum in a vertical orientation rather than in a horizontal orientation?

It has also been noted that the Woolum OMC is perhaps the most common card in the set. At least 3 exist..probably more. Perhaps they survived because of the popularity of the unigue horizontal layout.

Patrick

Some beautiful cards and good discussion on this thread. Thanks everyone for sharing!

Some threads make the grade, others are filler but can be fun. This one is great. Thanks again to those who shared.

Another interesting fact
 

As I mentioned previously, the images used in the Old Mill Cabinets are pulled from only Series #2, #5, and #7 in the T210 set.

In addition, T211 Red Sun cards use only Series #8 T210 images. Add in the T209-2 set, and the many similar photos used in that set, and we can get a good feel for what minor league baseball was like in 1910 era.

Both national and regional tobacco companies using ball players images to stimulate cigarette sales.

Patrick

Did you ever post the checklist you had confirmed Patrick? Im interested in seeing it if you would care to share here or via pm.

Checklist
 

Jason,

It's a work in progress.

1 CHARLES ARMSTRONG
2 WILLIAM BENTLEY
3 JACK BONNER
4 ANDREW BOWEN
5 OTIS BRAZELLE (BRAZELL)
6 HENRY BUSH (BUSCH)
7 HARVEY BUSSEY
8 LAVE CROSS
9 CLAUD L. DERRICK
10 WALT DOANE
11 FRANK "RABBIT" DOYLE
12 JOHN FOX
13 HARRY GALVIN
14 HARRY GRIFFIN
15 CHARLES "BUNNY" HEARN
16 LOUIE HOBBS
17 WILLIAM "BUCK" HOOKER
18 ENOS KIRKPATRICK
19 JOSEPH LAUGHLIN
20 WILLIAM "BILLY" LUYSTER
21 CY McDONALD
22 JAMES McKEVITT
23 CLARENCE "RED" MUNSON
24 BALPHA "LONNIE" NOOJN (NOOJIN)
25 LOU O'HALLORAN
26 WILLIAM "BUCK" PRESSLEY
27 ROBERT "DUTCH" REVELLE
28 SAM RICHARDSON
29 WALTER RICKARD
30 LESTER SIMMONS
31 ARTHUR SMITH
32 BRYANT SPICER
33 HARRY SPRATT
34 GUY TITMAN
35 DANIEL "TONY" WALTERS
36 ARTHUR WALLACE
37 FRED WEHERELL (WEHRELL)
38 IVEY WINGO
39 BART WOOLUMS
40 WILLIAM "BILL" ZIMMERMAN

Thank you Patrick!