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-   -   Pele Rookie? 1958 Diario De Noite (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=260887)

Collect Equity 10-11-2018 10:34 PM

Pele Rookie? 1958 Diario De Noite
 
6 Attachment(s)
Can anyone shed some light on the 1958 Diario De Noite cards?

These are small 'cards' - more like postage stamps really. They all say 1958 on them, but I am not sure if this is because they were published in 1958 or if they are published later but celebrating the 1958 team.

Any details about when they were made, how they were distributed etc. would be good.

Also, if they were made in 1958, would you consider them to be 'rookie cards' or not?

Here are some images from the set (Disclosure - some images were 'borrowed' from eBay).

samosa4u 10-12-2018 01:03 PM

Well, for something to be considered a 'rookie card' it still has to follow certain criteria. In other words, you can't just get any piece of cardboard from 1958 that has Pele's image on it and call it a rookie. If I were you, I wouldn't waste any time on these things.

Collect Equity 10-12-2018 01:51 PM

What is the criteria?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u (Post 1819209)
Well, for something to be considered a 'rookie card' it still has to follow certain criteria. In other words, you can't just get any piece of cardboard from 1958 that has Pele's image on it and call it a rookie. If I were you, I wouldn't waste any time on these things.

I am curious to know what the criteria is for a rookie that makes this invalid. If size of a card is a criteria, then this is certainly less valid. But other than that, it matches all of the same criteria as the Quigol, one of the more clear Pele rookies (both in terms of popularity and value):
-It is also released in Brazil
-It seems to be released in 1958
-It was made of paper, just like the Quigol (likely the same paper stock / quality)
-It was released as a set with other World Cup team members
-It was made to be posted into an album or book (in this case, these seem to be made to post on a cardstock book/album)

So I can't really dismiss it on any criteria except it is 1/4 the size of the Quigol. Does size disqualify a rookie candidate?

I guess you could say it's a stamp since it has perforated edges, but in soccer cards there are a number of stamps that are considered valid 'cards' that are graded by PSA/SGC and can be costly in high-grade (1958 Editora Aguarela rookie has a slight stamp-like perforation, some Sicker Verlags are basically stamps as are the similar 1965 Editrice Verbania set).

I'd love to know other opinions on if it could count as a rookie if indeed it was released in 1958.

Also, any one know details on the set and release circumstances?

samosa4u 10-12-2018 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collect Equity (Post 1819226)
But other than that, it matches all of the same criteria as the Quigol,

No, it doesn't. There are supposed to be 175 different cards in the Quigol set (winner cards included). The Quigols were also released by a company that was printing other cards as well. Brazilians call these cards "figurinhas." The stuff you're posting is very different. They are not figurinhas.

Collect Equity 10-12-2018 03:19 PM

Good Point
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by samosa4u (Post 1819243)
No, it doesn't. There are supposed to be 175 different cards in the Quigol set (winner cards included). The Quigols were also released by a company that was printing other cards as well. Brazilians call these cards "figurinhas." The stuff you're posting is very different. They are not figurinhas.

Good points! You can make a strong case.

For me the jury is still out, however. I agree that the Quigols are considered "figurinhas" and I don't know if people in Brazil would consider these as "figurinhas" or not. I am also not sure what makes "figurinhas" worthy of being a rookie card (considering it isn't a card at all). But if you removed just the Pele card/stamp from the above and had it graded then would it qualify?

If it is just whether or not it is a reputable publishing company, then we really need to know more about the Diario Noite company. Did these come in a set and were they distributed in the same was as Quigols? And if so, then would it qualify or is there still something about them that doesn't?

Collect Equity 10-12-2018 03:25 PM

Date of Release
 
2 Attachment(s)
In trying to establish a date of release, from what I can tell all of the Diario Noites 'stamps' seem to be of photos from 1958. In fact, two share images of other cards printed in or near 1958 - the Balas Futebol and the Titulares #50.

Best of all, if you happen to have doubles of the Titulares but are still missing the Diario Noites 'stamp,' you could just cut out Pele's head on the Titulares and then you'd have created a home-made Diario Noites :)

aljurgela 10-15-2018 11:06 AM

Yes....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Collect Equity (Post 1819256)
In trying to establish a date of release, from what I can tell all of the Diario Noites 'stamps' seem to be of photos from 1958. In fact, two share images of other cards printed in or near 1958 - the Balas Futebol and the Titulares #50.

Best of all, if you happen to have doubles of the Titulares but are still missing the Diario Noites 'stamp,' you could just cut out Pele's head on the Titulares and then you'd have created a home-made Diario Noites :)

They appear to use the image of the Titulares (which was 1958) and the Balas (also 1958). These particular issues are a "homage" to the winning 1958 World Cup team, which at the very least means that they were published AFTER the World cup (but potentially still in 1958 - potentially August - which is on one of the cardboard).

Since the WC was held in June, we can - with certainty - predate the ALFA rookie card to these cards... but still likely 1958 issues, which means that many would still consider them "rookies". As mentioned in may other posts, there is a lot of data that suggests that the Quigol is a 1959 or 1960 card and many still consider than his rookie. I tend to put the Titulares album as issued prior to the World Cup as well as it does not proclaim victory anywhere and the title infers "starters". The "safest" Pele rookies to me are the ALFA, Titulares (though PSA is no longer grading them) and the VAV cards.

Anyway, the rookie designation is (somewhat) in the eye of the beholder.

Anish 10-16-2018 09:42 PM

Great stuff. I have no issue calling it a RC.

What is the card pictured above the one with the titulares image? Thatís an awesome looking card

Anish 11-01-2018 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anish (Post 1820337)
Great stuff. I have no issue calling it a RC.

What is the card pictured above the one with the titulares image? Thatís an awesome looking card

I guess this answers my question. :eek:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

samosa4u 11-03-2018 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anish (Post 1824032)
I guess this answers my question. :eek:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PELE-1958-R...sAAOSw3npb2144

These cards are pretty rare and they look awesome, but there are a few things that are bothering me here: firstly, I have not been able to find the album these cards came from, and secondly, were these cards really made in 1958? A lot of collectors see 1958 on the back and assume that is the date of manufacture - this is not true. It simply says that they won the World Cup in Sweden 1958.

Maybe Al can help us with this one ...


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