grading etc
 

As a "collector' since the 1940's I find this entire thing of grading and now some kind of stickers etc. one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of. No, I get it. Those of you who are in love with plastic instead of the product itself good bless you but you are REALLY hurting those of us who truly love what USED to be the "hobby".
Sealmark

I understand your position
 

I understand your position but this has been more than a simple hobby for a long time now and with the money changing hands and as bad as it was getting in the late 80's early 90's something had to be done. Counterfitters and all kinds of card doctors running wild. yes i know some doctors still exist and get by the companies from time to time but it is still vastly above where we were back then. Its not going to be going anywhere. It may adapt or change some in time but i believe it is here to stay and has entered almost every collectibles field where any kind of serious money is changing hands. they even slab vintage video games now.

Congratulations on a long collecting career I’m sure your collection and collecting stories are fantastic. As a collector since the 70s I appreciate your sentiment however baseball cards transcended just being a hobby 40+ years ago. TPGs were inevitable as purchasing became predominantly without ever having the card in hand. There are many many reasons TPG came into being, one being those dealers in the monthly periodicals who would describe vg cards as nm -mt.
It was terrible. I think , like it or not, TPGs will continue to evolve as technology and collector preference allows. Plastic or not, most of us have a strong passion
for cards and an appreciation for those that collected before us.

I've told this story before, but went with my friend in college to sell his Montana rookie. The guy told him it was in terrible shape and he's lucky to offer him anything for it.

A day later, there is was, sitting in the case marked as MINT.

Just last week went to look at a '75 Topps set the dealer said was NM. Not even close.

I like the TPG.


Still, plenty of raw cards out there.

How are people that buy graded cards hurting you and your raw card collecting?

While I am not in love with graded cards in plastic, I do buy graded cards most of the time, as the cards I purchase are very high end. I want to make sure (to the best I can) that I am not getting stuck with a fake or altered card. I also want to get the best looking card I can afford.

The local card shops have long since closed. That leaves me the internet. Like the previous poster mentioned, if someone is describing a card as excellent, you want to make sure you get a excellent card, not something that barely passes for good.

In my opinion, the card manufacturers from about the mid 90s to present, are responsible for all but pricing kids out of a great hobby, with the fancy cards and cuts etc.

I’ve been burned waaaaaay too many times to stick with solely purchasing raw cards. If I can’t hold the card, eyeball it under a loupe and black light, even give the cardboard a good whiff, I’m sorry but I won’t buy it. And since the majority of my purchases are via the World Wide Web, I have a ton of graded cards. Don’t get me wrong — I prefer a raw card simply for the nostalgia. But to place the blame for the commoditization of your childhood is misguided. Most of us don’t own cards that we busted out of the pack 70+ years ago, so buying graded cards is an evil necessity. And if my graded-card purchases is “hurting” you, then I sincerely apologize.

I guess I'm odd because I actually like both graded and raw cards. I have a lot raw that I can feel and see up close with a loupe. This helps me get comfortable with what a legit card is like so I don't get burned when buying other raw cards. But I also like many of my HOFers to be graded to protect them and to give them their own display in a way.

What I wanted to ask you though, Sealmark, is how are people who collect graded cards "REALLY" hurting you? You emphasize that statement so I just wondered if you could expand on it a bit.

Thanks,

AndyH

I'm not a big guy on professional grading and find some of the aspects foolish and overdone. However, I do see the good idea of having an independent opinion on authenticity and condition when you're talking about online sale between two people one thousand miles apart.

I wish TPGs weren't necessary, and I would prefer they didn't exist. However, dishonesty in the hobby made the rise of TPGs inevitable. Who among us didn't buy a "NM" card from a listing in Tuff Stuff or SCD only to get a card in the mail that was EX at best?? Collectors got tired of being burned. True, there are shenanigans with grading, but I can buy a graded card on ebay for a set I am working on and have a pretty good idea of what I am getting. This is tough for me to say/admit, but it is true.

There are definitely corners of the hobby that have been priced out to kids, and also collectors like me, but I don't think this is anything new. I started collecting in the 80s and did not grow up with much money, and even then I couldn't afford all the rookie cards I desired.

Sure, kids today (and myself) can't afford a 1/1 Otani super refractor auto relic diamond-encrusted whatchamacallit, but even if not every card is within reach, there are plenty of ways for kids and collectors on a budget to collect.

I just bought a few pack of Topps Big League, a new set for beginner collectors, and I'm going to give them to my 5-year-old to rip and tear. Looking forward to seeing how we each like them. And in the National thread, there was a fantastic story about a collector and his 12-year-old who went and spent $50 on cards, creating great memories. Not everyone needs the limited print run variation stuff to have fun collecting.

I think it was more a reference to pack prices. In the 80's I could buy packs for 50¢ (and less) what's an average pack go for today? An average box? I think they've gone up at a lot more than the rate of inflation.

Huh? With terms like “ grading” , “ stickers” and “plastic”- where are you getting the reference to pack prices?

because that historically is how kids enter the market. It is also how manufacturers can price kids out of it. The secondary market is pricing kids out if your problem is with one of ones and refractors and whatnot.

Stay off my lawn!!
 

Rotten kids!!

My only concern is whether or not the plastic in the holders will damage the cards over time. The HOF doesn't keep cards in holders; not sure that's the reason why. It seems you take on some element of risk no matter what you do.

Running through an inflation calculator I found online, 50 cents in 1984 has the buying power of $1.23 now. So definitely not the same as a pack of the regular series Topps. That said, the cards are much better quality today and there is a better chance to get a card of value (considering autos, SPs, etc.).

And just off the top of my head, as I've bought a few Pokemon packs in recent months, but a pack of baseball cards I think is priced competitively against other cards, toys, games and the like that kids would be interested in today.

1. When you have as much money as you have exchanging hands for certain cards i.e. T206 Cobb, 1952 Topps Mantle, 1951 Bowman Mantle, etc. you are going to have to have some sort of 3rd party involved to independently verify/take on some sort of liability. Grading/certifying things isn't exclusive to sports cards/trading cards. It's also usually required when insuring an item of that nature as well.

2. If there is money to be made, you better expect for there to be numerous hoards of unscrupulous people ready to take advantage of the uneducated and untrained. Card grading has greatly reduced the ability of crooks to take advantage of unwitting buyers who have money, but no idea as to what they are looking at in regards to condition or even legitimacy. It's not a 100% fool-proof thing because humans are involved, but the ability to know you're buying something that's 100% legit and in a specific condition is almost worth it's weight in gold to most.

3. Just because you collected cards as a kid and see it as a hobby only doesn't mean those who have more money than you or others and can afford higher-ticket items and/or treat it as a business are bad people. Should I be pissed at millionaires because they can go buy rare fully-restored classic cars that I can't afford because restoring classic cars is a "hobby." Hell no.

People like the OP are just full of sour-grapes because the hobby/industry passed them by and they simply aren't able to effectively operate in the climate of today. Sorry, but things change and we progress as humans (well, most of us anyway).