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What in the world are these?

Posted By: James GalloAnyone have a clue? I emailed the seller never got a response. Nothing I have seen lookes like this, and the seller sells mostly newer stuff, but had a ton of these boxing cards? <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dffkjn" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/dffkjn</a> <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cn4g2g" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cn4g2g</a> <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dhankm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/dhankm</a> I would love some opinions before I send this guy the money. James G Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: D. BerginModern fantasy issue, much like the wheat back penny cards that have been popping up lately. Not sure how they decided they were ice cream cards.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: James GalloWhy make a fantasy set of mainly boxers, and from what did all these images come from. I mean there had to be at least 20 different boxers. Seems like a waste especially if all it gets is someone like me that wins the auction and doesn't pay. James G Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Eric BGood questions. Here's another. If it's a modern fantasy issue, does the printer have rights to the image and/or name?

What in the world are these?

Posted By: D. BerginWhy make a fantasy set of mainly boxers, and from what did all these iamges come from. I mean there had to be at least 20 different. Seems like a waste especially if all it gets is someone like me that wins the auction and doesn't pay. Photos look low quality. They could have pulled them right off the internet. There's a seller on Ebay right now that has the original photo of Attell / Welsh up as a Buy It Now and it has probably been up for awhile. Why boxers? Well, if they pick the right boxers and try to sell as some sort of previously unknown issue they will get enough bidders to make a tidy profit. They were probably very cheap to produce. I saw some of those wheat back penny cards selling for some ridiculous prices to a little while back. I don't even think they're 70's era which I have seen in some descriptions. I think they were made in the last couple of years at the most. Seller might not even know. They might have fell for the unknown ice cream issue story from somebody else who actually produced them and started shopping them around.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Paul D>>Why make a fantasy set of mainly boxers, and from what did all these iamges come from. I mean there had to be at least 20 different. Seems like a waste especially if all it gets is someone like me that wins the auction and doesn't pay. James G You seem to assume that the seller was the producer; while it could just be that they picked them up somewhere and either thought they were old, or the seller knew that were new and didn't expect any to put big money into these. I would assume the latter due to the fact that he has listed 3400 items in just the last two weeks, almost all list a date of '05 to 08' and all start at 99 cents with free shipping and still many (if not most) of them didn't even sell. Didn't anyone think to look at his other auctions? Didn't anyone think to email the seller? Or try to figure out what they were before they ended? If you asked him, and he told you that he knew they were actually vintage (to those that appear on the cards), then you might have an argument not to pay. If not, then you should grin and bear it. Don't feel to bad, you weren't the only one that bid on to much on these. And you won't be the first, or last, to place eBay bids on things that turn out to be junk. I've unfortunately done it myself; but we learn, and we move on. Paul D.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: James GalloI did ask the seller and got no response. I also asked a few other people and those slackers didn't get back to me in time. The fact of the matter is that by paying all I do is keep the cycle going. I wasn't willing to take a chance they were good, and there was no risk on my end as the buyer is always right in todays ebay <img src="/images/happy.gif" height="14" width="14" alt="happy.gif"> James G Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: AnonymousWhat did the seller misrepresent that entitles you to renege? Did he use the word "vintage"?

What in the world are these?

Posted By: boxingcardmanFirst, between me and Dave B., you've got a pretty good knowledge base of all vintage issues and if we haven't seen them before, odds are they are not from a series of 44 cards that were actually issued at any time in the corresponding era. Second, some of the cards pirate other sets' images. The Peter Jackson was a Newsboy, the Jack Dempsey was an Old Judge. Third, the cards oddly feature a mix of boxers all way to the 1920s (Carpentier) but emphasize Jack Johnson and the Jack Johnson v. Jim Jeffries fight. By the 1920s Johnson was persona non grata, a convicted felon (under the Mann Act) and reviled personality among white Americans. Most sets of the era (1920s) that cover historical champions give JJ one card at most if they are doing a run of heavyweight champs (e.g., 1921 Exhibit, W580, W-Unc playing cards, etc.); many omit him entirely. You would especially not expect to see multiple cards of Johnson v. Jeffries. That fight was not a popular subject in the 1920s; quite the opposite. It led to racist pogroms against black folks across the country and is not depicted in any of the mainstream sets of the era. It is unthinkable that a marketing set from that era would have multiple cards of a fight that was considered to be a humiliation for the white race. You've also got a ton of Abe Attell, relatively speaking. Again, in the supposed era of these cards, Attell was not popular. He was a retired champ, basically disgraced. Yet, here he is in multiple cards. Why? Because of the Black Sox scandal, which is a modern phenomenon from a collecting standpoint. A modern maker looking to cash in would do a lot of JJ and JJ v. JJ because Johnson's popularity picked up with the civil rights movement and especially over the last decade with the Ken Burns film, and lots of Attell to get the crossover from baseball. Finally, there is a Joe Choynski. Chrysanthemum Joe was another forgotten fighter by then, with one card in the 1920s that I can think of (the W580) yet he is exactly who you'd expect to see in a modern-made set because he was Jewish and is considered by most afficionados to be finest Jewish boxer in the heavyweights. Fourth, the Wyatt Earp card. Again, not to be expected in a card from the 1920s. Earp was not a referee at that point; his known refereeing gig was Fitzsimmons v. Sharkey in 1897. By the 1920s he was more or less a hanger-on in the motion picture industry in Los Angeles and definitely not a popular culture figure. However, if I was trying to generate interest in the card set now, I might well include his image. BTW, the image is a ripoff from his Wikipedia page. My suggestion, since it is small dollar purchase, is that you close the deal and ask David Rudd (Cycleback) to have a look at the printing. He should be able to tell you whether the cards' print could have been made back in the day or whether it reflects modern techniques. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Mark AndersonIf you'll look at the seller's other items, it is perhaps the largest selection of modern fantasy and unlicensed issues anywhere. If the seller is not the one making all these cards, he or she certainly must be the biggest customer of the people doing so! Given all the other "broders" they are selling, plus the fact that the printing, stock, and fonts used on the boxing cards looks unlike anything vintage I have seen, I'd say "where there's smoke, there's fire".

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Steve F"Worldwide shipping is FREE" Hey, change your mailing address in PP to Nepal and cut into his profit margin. <img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/367014718_7edcd4d465.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

What in the world are these?

Posted By: James GalloREasons for not paying: Not realated to an ice cream as stated. Really that is all I need. I would also say that these are not really cards since they are custom made. My thinking was that it was a later perhaps 1940s type issue, and not knowing boxing history so well I would not have taken notice of the above comments. Regarldess I expected a real set of cards not something somone made on a printer at home. I find it odd that when someone get ripped off, everyone gives them support but several of you seem to feel I should just suck it up and piss away $50+??? James G Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: AnonymousIn my view, if one has substantial doubts about an item, as you clearly did, one should act responsibly and not bid. Here there were numerous glaring red flags, which others have mentioned, plus the fact that the seller declined to answer your questions. It's also odd that the cards seem to have near perfect corners, another suggestion they were not vintage.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Dan BrettaI don't think you should pay. Clearly a scam...it didn't generate much for him, but there is no way those cards are vintage.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Dan BrettaClearly these auctions were meant for Stew P. Dasso's collection. RIP Stew!

What in the world are these?

Posted By: Steve F You did the right thing by coming here before payout. Not sure why this seller gets any pity here, but it's a bit disturbing... Although this DB is technically innocent. His implicit description is sleazy and deceptive, period. I wouldn't pay this apprentice shyster a plug penny. I would give him a tough time before he moves on to high-value counterfeits and really puts the screws to another. Don't squander this opportunity.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: D. BerginHmmmmm. This seller "foreign-vintage" has the "penny cards" AND the "ice cream cards". Looks like many have the same image as the other if you check the completed auctions. Somebody paid $50+ for the Jean Beliveau hockey penny. Judging by the vague location, the description and use of Private Bidders it's probably the same seller the original poster bought from. Now, to be clear I don't know if there's really anything wrong with this as long as they're not trying to pass them off as vintage...........though they are a bit vague about it. Oddball, Type and Individual player collectors love this type of stuff whether it happens to be vintage or not. For some people they may not care if it's associated with a particular product or is a homemade fantasy issue or whatever.

What in the world are these?

Posted By: boxingcardmanIf you want I'll take the cheapest Attell for you. I'll out it on my web site and eat the cost of the card. Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc