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-   -   Why does roger clemens cards still out price Greg maddux? (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=241166)

Rookiemonster 06-16-2017 05:06 PM

Why does roger clemens cards still out price Greg maddux?
 
What's the reason here? Greg maddux was obviously clean, a champion, hofer,great stats and likable. Not that I didn't like Clemens but with all the speculation around him you would think his cards would be cheaper then maddux.

Econteachert205 06-16-2017 05:13 PM

Clemens was a badass is why.

bnorth 06-16-2017 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econteachert205 (Post 1671810)
Clemens was a badass is why.

^^+1^^ Clemens was awesome beyond belief and in my biased opinion the best to ever throw the ball.

BearBailey 06-16-2017 05:53 PM

Clemens played for Red Sox and Yankees. Even though it shouldn't matter it always does. Maddux was not only better but clean but many people like strikeouts. It makes no sense but Clemens cards go for more.

Peter_Spaeth 06-16-2017 05:58 PM

Most people would much prefer to watch the ultimate power pitcher, with a borderline personality at that, than a great artist.

85-05 was an incredible two decades for pitchers. Clemens, Maddux, Randy Johnson, Pedro, Glavine.

PS Leaving aside the PED issue, I would dispute that Maddux was better than Clemens. The numbers do not bear that out.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-16-2017 07:12 PM

same reason a wax box of 1985 Donruss sells for several times more than a 1987 Donruss.

Neal 06-16-2017 08:36 PM

Maddux is boring? Just a guess ....

Peter_Spaeth 06-16-2017 09:26 PM

Clemens and Maddux only went head to head twice, I believe.

Rookiemonster 06-17-2017 10:20 AM

Agreed Clemens was awesome I would have expected him to be the same or less the maddux. As far as your maddux being boring idk if anyone here has seen the kris Brant prank with Mad dog. https://www.google.com/amp/mlb.nbcsp...is-bryant/amp/

Sierra79 06-18-2017 02:13 PM

If you're looking at their main brand RC and XRC cards Clemens has the 85 Topps Tiffany and the 84 Fleer Update cards, which are relatively rarer than what maddux has - the more produced 87 Topps Tiffany, 87 Fleer glossy, and no main brand XRC.

Beyond that, if you look at realized prices of their 90's inserts/parallels then most often Maddux is out pricing Clemens. For example, take a look at the sold listing for the 93 Finest Refractors for both players. Most Maddux refractors are selling for more.

Either way, had Clemens not been shrouded with the pedal controversy I think his cards would be through the roof. Both pitchers dominated for different reasons - clemens tossed k's left and right and yes Maddux didn't throw as many k's, as he was a ground ball artist. I completely agree that Clemens time with Boston and the Yanks also gives him a more dedicated fan base although the Braves and Cubs aren't too shabby.


It's kind of crazy to think that three pitchers, Clemens, Johnson, and Maddux combined for 16 CY Awards.

JustinD 06-20-2017 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1671813)
^^+1^^ Clemens was awesome beyond belief and in my biased opinion the best to ever throw the ball.

this.

Jim65 06-22-2017 01:39 AM

Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher? :)

AGuinness 06-28-2017 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65 (Post 1673351)
Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher? :)

I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the earlier posts. Beat me to the punch!

AGuinness 06-28-2017 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierra79 (Post 1672328)
If you're looking at their main brand RC and XRC cards Clemens has the 85 Topps Tiffany and the 84 Fleer Update cards, which are relatively rarer than what maddux has - the more produced 87 Topps Tiffany, 87 Fleer glossy, and no main brand XRC.

Looks like recent sales on eBay have the PSA 10s of the 1984 Fleer Update going for about $600 each, while the BGS 9.5s of the same card are going for $400.

I was under the impression that BGS was more desirable for modern cards while PSA for vintage, although something like this makes me wonder where the line of demarcation is for when that preference changes.

Davino 08-08-2017 01:31 PM

Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.

Sierra79 08-08-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim65 (Post 1673351)
Why do Nolan Ryan's cards outsell Tom Seaver, when Seaver was a far superior pitcher? :)

Two numbers 7 and 5000.

Sierra79 08-08-2017 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davino (Post 1688546)
Clemens was a more dramatic pitcher, and he has 7 Cy Youngs, struck out 20 in a game, he was at the very tops of the greatest ever.

100% agree. Both are amongst the best with completely different styles, but Clemens was far more dramatic and had a longer period of 'dramatic' dominance. It also doesn't hurt that he played for the Red Sox and Yankees. PEDS or not, his 7 Cy young awards says a lot.

darwinbulldog 08-10-2017 10:40 AM

If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

Davino 08-10-2017 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1689302)
If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

Wow, that is very interesting, look how much better Seaver was than Ryan!!

Sierra79 08-11-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog (Post 1689302)
If you're comparing rookie cards, most of it is accounted for by Clemens's cards being from less overproduced sets. Pretty clear to me though that Clemens was the better pitcher anyway. Statistically (sabermetrically anyway) he's the best since Walter Johnson.

The way I've run the stats, I come up with the following rankings for these guys.

Among all MLB players
Clemens: 5
Seaver: 16
Johnson: 22
Maddux: 26
Martinez: 28
Ryan: 101


Among MLB pitchers
Clemens: 3
Seaver: 6
Johnson: 8
Maddux: 9
Martinez: 11
Ryan: 38

I am a huge Maddux fan, but there isn't any denying, regardless of the PED shadow, that Clemens is in a league of his own. Statistics aside, Clemens also too pitched in the steroid era against athletes who, whether or not used PEDs, were far more physically developed than players from earlier eras whom he is measured against. When he gets inducted, and he will, high grade examples of his 84 Fleer Update and 85 Topps Tiffany should see a nice bump. I think as the dust settles from the PED scandal people will take a look at him and what he acomplished with a greater sense of appreciation.


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