Originally Posted by tschock (Post 1790546)

This.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1790581)

i would of said, ill still buy the card for the same price...please show me the card..no reason to refund

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1790547)

Here's the proof that maxcollector69 lied to me.

Was I too aggressive with my approach to Joe? Yes, absolutely. But I'm also outraged at this whole situation, and really just wanted some answers. I didn't feel like a phone call would have solved or proved anything, as Joe made it clear that he wasn't going to reveal any info about the trading partner. And just like Andrew's insensitive initial response to Patrick, my correspondence with Joe was fueled by anger and frustration. All I had to go on at that point was that the card was in Joe's inventory and relisted on eBay at a 500% markup over what I had paid.

I don't expect to ever get this card for $1200. I actually moved on from that long ago, but when the card showed back up on eBay a few days ago, it got me angry all over again.

Once whoever Joe decides to relay the information to about the trading partner reaches out to me and confirms that it's legit, I'll happily apologize to Joe.

I'd much prefer getting the trading partner's contact info so I can at least try to find out who actually bought the card from maxcollector69, but that looks like it won't happen at this point.

My FULL NAME is Dmitry Drubitsky

Originally Posted by whitehse (Post 1790595)

At this point.....If I was Joe you would not get anything further from me after your repeated attempts to ruin my reputation among other things. Have a hissy fit all you want but it really is time to move on and let this one go.

Geez its just cards man. This is not life and death.

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1790604)

I wish I had a lot of influence on the card collecting community.

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 1790535)

I hate to take sides when I'm not involved and this is more a general comment.

You cannot make yourself whole by damaging someone else.

Originally Posted by joed25 (Post 1790522)

I see the photos are not clear so here is the ebay conversation transcribed:

OP: Did you purchase this from maxcollector69?

Me: No.

OP: Are you selling it as a consignment for someone else then? I'm asking because I purchased
and paid for this card from eBay user maxcollector69 about a month ago. The order was then
cancelled and refunded before it shipped. Whoever bought it stole it from me by offering the
seller more, and I need to know who did that to me. If not you, then I need to know who. If you
can't provide that info then I'll assume it was you.

Me: No I am not.

OP: Then it was you who stole this card from me. Thanks for clearing that up.
I will be making sure your eBay business suffers as much as possible.
It will be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life by the time I'm finished with you.
maxcollector69 is already feeling the effects of the part that he played in this.
Expect to also hear from MANY others who have already heard my story, and know exactly
what you did.

Me: This is the fourth email I got from someone saying he bought this card. I know almost
nothing about cards. I am an autograph dealer. I only get cards in trades. Someone traded
me this card for an expensive autograph. To think that I would follow an eBay sale of this
card and message the seller after to sell it to me is a little crazy as I don’t deal in cards
and I wouldn’t know what a dietshe postcard is if it hit me in the head. Hope this clears
things up.

OP: Again, unless I get specific details on who you got this card from, I will assume it was you who
stole it from me.
Others are messaging you on MY behalf.
Check eBay sales within the last 90 days and you'll see this card sold for $1200 as a BUY IT
NOW. I was the buyer.
The seller cancelled on me after I paid. Someone offered maxcollector69 more to cause the
cancellation.
Unless you tell me who you got this card from, I'll have to assume it was YOU!
And selling it for $6K tells me you know A LOT about this card.
DO NOT attempt to lie to me. IT WILL NOT WORK!

Me: I told you exactly what happened with this card. Obviously I can research a cards value.
But I am not a Card dealer and it is ludicrous to think that I would follow an eBay Auction
and message him after on an obscure card that I don’t deal in. I would never do such a
thing. Also I don’t appreciate being threatened.

OP: I'm asking you one last time, who did you get this card from? I won't ask again...

And I don't appreciate being lied to and stolen from. Even if it wasn't you, if you don't tell me
who you got this card from, then you're covering for the perp, which makes you just as
responsible! And I still think it was you!

Me: I am available to speak after 11 am est. Feel free to
call.

OP: I work during the day and come home to 3 young children, so I don't have the time to call
anyone.
I'm just asking for proof that you didn't get the card from maxcollector69. That should be easy
enough to provide.
Right now all evidence points to you.

Me: After work is fine. I have 4 little kids as well. Thanks

OP: Who should I ask for when calling?
I'm still going to need real proof.
Telling me something like you made a trade with a stranger at a show won't cut it for me.

Me: Joe.
It was not at a show. It was from someone who buys from me

OP: That won't help either of us, unfortunately, and eliminates the need for a phone call. I would hope
that you don't engage in large transactions like that without first getting some personal info from your
trading partner, but it doesn't seem like you did that. It's a situation like this that you could have
avoided. That is, if any of what you're saying is true. As far as I can see, you can't prove anything,
but I can prove you're in possession of the Cobb. That's all I'll need.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I'll need a full name, email address, and if you have it,
eBay user ID and home address of your trading partner.

Me: Of course I have the persons name but I’m not going to give the name of one of my
clients. Call me. You will see I’m honest and I would never do such a horrible thing. I
definitely feel your pain. All the best, Joe

OP: Hi Joe, I really want to believe you, but this isn't looking good for you without any proof or
willingness to cooperate.
I'm sure you're already getting messages from people who will vow to never do business with
you again - you'll be getting much more of this over the coming days, weeks and months. I
have a lot of influence on the card collecting community, and have no issues reaching out to
the memorabilia side as well.
I will need that name and email address to let you off the hook.
If you have any sympathy at all about this situation, you'll do the right thing and make sure that
the right person is exposed for what they did.

Me: Let’s talk when you are
free.

OP: I appreciate your willingness to reach out and speak to me, but nothing short of your client's
information will help either of us.
Covering for your client makes you just as guilty, unfortunately.

Me: With all due respect I think if you were in my shoes you would not want to give a clients
information. I really think it will be a benefit to talk. Please call. Thanks. Joe

OP: I would happily provide their information if I was given proof that they were potentially
engaging in such devious behavior. I'd also never do business with them again, but it's
obvious that you value their business more than your own ethics.
It's possible there was another exchange before it reached your client, but that will need to be
researched.
As it stands, the ball is in your court, and you're still covering for your client. That's all I need to
know.

Me: Again I am willing to talk. I don’t want to fight with you. I would never do anything like
some people are suggesting. I cannot give a clients name. If you change your mind and
are willing to talk I am always available. I wish you the best. Joe

OP: You've taken your stance and I've taken mine. I just hope you can accept the consequences of
your actions.

Originally Posted by SMPEP (Post 1790679)

Andrew - apology accepted and reciprocated.

Cheers,
Patrick

Originally Posted by whitehse (Post 1790595)

At this point.....If I was Joe you would not get anything further from me after your repeated attempts to ruin my reputation among other things. Have a hissy fit all you want but it really is time to move on and let this one go.

Geez its just cards man. This is not life and death.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1791027)

A little tired of people saying 'its just cards' thats pretty unfair to say...its about someone being dishonest and about money.

lets see you lose $4000 on a deal and have people say....don't worry its just cards..

His deal involved a least a thousand or so....if its not a big deal...why dont one of you people who say 'its just cards' give him the thousand dollars..afterall its just cards and not over much...so should be easy to give it to him...

Originally Posted by glchen (Post 1791196)

It's a lot different if someone scams you $4000 when they send you an empty box with no card in the package or something similar versus you were about to buy a card $4000 below market price because the seller didn't know better and priced the card incorrectly.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1791232)

Agree for the most part. Having been there (deal retracted) more than once on a several k deal, it sort of feels the same to me but for a fraction of the time :). Just because a "great" deal doesn't happen, doesn't mean you are really out money, out of your pocket. (again, it sort of feels that way but it's not....just check your wallet, money is still there). Receive an empty box and check your wallet, money is gone. Different.

Originally Posted by Davidlisa (Post 1791466)

I was thinking, what about ebay finds that did materialize, I'd like to hear some of those stories.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1791487)

Some people make new deals based on completed prior deals so could be out the money. Ie. you bought a card, with expectation of making X profit then take a loan on something based on the gains you will use to pay the loan back. Yes, its an extreme example but just saying you can have less money in your wallet at the end of day in several other possible outcomes. Not so easy.

Still if buy a card and get an empty box, the seller can say 'its just cards' Its about getting ripped off and money (to varying degrees) but in any event, people have a right to vent anger over being ripped off and losing money and being told 'its just cards' is kinda lame to me.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1791492)

Many times the more you say the less I understand. Sometimes I wonder about your logic. Here, I will make it simple for you.

Too good of a deal that didn't happen- Not good
Someone scamming you out of 4k- worse

I don't see anyone condoning not following through on a deal. I also don't see anyone else with your warped sense of logic.

Originally Posted by Scott L. (Post 1790683)

Joe you have the patience of a saint. I can’t imagine letting anyone speak to me like this for as long as you did. Over a baseball card. Kudos.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1791505)

The OP hasn't proved anything, but neither has Andrew/Joe (unless I missed it - I didn't read every response). If I were the OP, here's how I would handle it from here:

Dmitry, you have a confirmation email from PayPal that says you paid for the item. I would take that email and file a police report in New Jersey saying that the card never arrived - must have been stolen. Let them know who is in possession of the card. Let the police do their own investigation. They'll determine where the card originated from real fast. If Andrew/Joe are right, you owe them an apology. If they are guilty of what you suspect them of, well then a lot of people owe you an apology. Again, that's just how I would handle it, you can do as you wish.

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia (Post 1791490)

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...ENBERG_NEW.JPG

about eight years ago this was in a ten-day auction and spent the whole ten days titled "Greemberg"....final price was a bit over $200 because of shipping from Canada....don't hate me...

..

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1791513)

David,

Unfortunately, I also have an order cancellation and refund. It would be pretty silly of me to file a police report, especially if I were to claim that the card was stolen in transit, which I know it was not because it never shipped.

You've hit the nail on the head, though, with the fact that Andrew and Joe haven't proven yet that they didn't buy the card from maxcollector69. All we have so far is their word - and they are under no obligation to prove anything to me or anyone else if they choose not to.

If Andrew or Joe decide that they'd like to prove that they didn't buy the card from maxcollector69, then I absolutely owe them an apology.

Without proof, however, there is still some doubt. Nobody can possibly deny or refute that given they are the only other party that has been proven to be in possession of the card after maxcollector69 had it.

I'd like to apologize to everyone on the board, however, about how I went about pursuing this. I should not have made any threats or accusations without actual proof. I convinced myself that it was Joe simply because he was in possession of the card, and that was wrong of me.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1791487)

Some people make new deals based on completed prior deals so could be out the money. Ie. you bought a card, with expectation of making X profit then take a loan on something based on the gains you will use to pay the loan back.

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1785773)

A very recent REA sale of an SGC 20 with heavy creasing went for $3300.

Originally Posted by Ronnie73 (Post 1786056)

I had a cat years ago that somehow knew what the valuable cards were and if I didn't play with the cat when he wanted to play, I would end up finding teeth marks on those cards. He was kinda like a little brother.

Originally Posted by Roulette44 (Post 1791662)

Dmitry - you really DO owe an apology as you made several defamatory comments to them, spread rumors which can’t be proven, and were quite rude and obnoxious to them. What is particularly surprising is how well they handled the situation - showing you empathy, when another person in the same situation might have ended up filing suit against you.

Originally Posted by leaflover (Post 1791673)

So the "incredible Ebay find" didn't materialize and what could have been the "FLIP of the month" didn't happen. Too bad.

Originally Posted by Roulette44 (Post 1791662)

Dmitry - you really DO owe an apology as you made several defamatory comments to them, spread rumors which can’t be proven, and were quite rude and obnoxious to them. What is particularly surprising is how well they handled the situation - showing you empathy, when another person in the same situation might have ended up filing suit against you.

Originally Posted by egri (Post 1791769)

I agree. Also, the OP keeps saying that Joe needs to prove his innocence (see post #62 for starters), but that is backwards. The burden of proof is on OP to show that Joe acted nefariously, and he hasn't done that. He has offered up conjectures and speculation about what happened, but nothing in the way of concrete proof, and after 140 posts on the topic, I am skeptical of any turning up. Lastly, and this may be my cynical side getting the best of me, but I think some perspective is needed here: if you have $1,200 to spend on a piece of cardboard that has a true value of $3000-4000, then your problems can't be all that bad.

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1791711)

Yea it seems like I'm in the minority around here but I dont have a lot of sympathy in general for guys who are trying to steal a card and the transaction gets canceled. If you're buying a card for less than half of what it's worth there is a decent chance a seller may wake up and realize what he has one way or another. Stores and websites like Amazon will cancel an order due to an obvious pricing mistake or error. And so will many Ebay sellers. Deal with it and move on.

Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1791770)

When we were kids and didn't eat all of our food at dinner my dad would say, Do you know there are starving kids in the world? At which I would reply, Can you send it to them? That never went over very well.

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1790157)

The new seller is now claiming that he got the card in a trade for an expensive autograph, yet he won't tell me who he got it from.

He also claims he knows nothing of cards or Dietsche PCs, yet he has hundreds of graded cards for sale in his eBay store.

I'm now even more certain that showpiecessports is the one who bought the card from maxcollector69.

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1790233)

Funny you should mention this - I just got done reporting both of them to eBay over the phone for engaging in a transaction outside of eBay.

This is a direct violation of eBay rules.

I hope they both get banned!

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1790283)

While that might be true, I still feel it was worth my 10 minutes on the phone to report the incident and let eBay investigate, even if nothing comes of it.

Originally Posted by joed25 (Post 1790522)

OP: I work during the day and come home to 3 young children, so I don't have the time to call
anyone.
I'm just asking for proof that you didn't get the card from maxcollector69. That should be easy
enough to provide.
Right now all evidence points to you.

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1790369)

So all the evidence so far points to Joe as the buyer of the card, and I should just blindly trust his word that he's innocent?

The original seller is NOT the only person who wronged me here.

If Joe's story has any merit at all, he needs to provide info on who traded him the card. IT IS MY BUSINESS if he's the only person who can provide that info.

If I were in Joe's shoes, not only would I do everything I could to help out, including providing info on the client, I'd also never do business again with that client. Joe obviously values his client over his ethics. And that's going on a HUGE assumption that his story is even true.

Originally Posted by sterlingfox (Post 1791804)

An apology has been issued to Joe through eBay.

My actions were based purely on emotion rather than reason. When the Cobb resurfaced on eBay, it confirmed that I was lied to and cheated, and all I could see at that time was maxcollector69 as the seller, and Joe (wrongly) as the buyer.

I went about this all wrong, and attacked Joe without enough proof. For that, I am very sorry.

At the time, I didn't feel like a phone call was going to help my situation at all, but I was wrong about that too. I now deeply regret not having called and spoken to Joe before I let things get way out of hand.

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1791816)

you're a good man.

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1791816)

you're a good man.