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How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin SaucierAnything that a typical card shows in its unaltered condition can usually be replicated, that includes the gloss surface. Doctored cards can have their original gloss removed depending on the type of alterations performed. Just the same, a typical card that has not been altered in any way can loose all or part of its natural gloss, assuming it was there in the first place, by normal wear and tear. Gloss can be added to hide other alterations, correct damage done or to make an old card look better. This is where it helps to know a little about the card, to include the year, cardstock and its normal appearance. Reglossing is usually accomplished by applying a solution or other coating to the surface of a card in order to revitalize the full or slightly shiny look. A quick glance under normal lighting or a halogen should let you know right away if the card seems to have extra gloss or be a little shinier than normal. Again, use your nose and give it a sniff test. Anything applied to the card surface may give off an abnormal odor. Rub you finger gently across the surface of the card and feel if it is too slick or slightly sticky. Your finger should not be hindered in its movement or, in other words, skip across as if being dragged. Also run your finger gently down each edge feeling for the same sticky or sliding movement. Place the card under a halogen light and look at the angled card surface for any high/low flaws, overly glossed areas or a thick film. With your loupe, inspect the outer borders of the card and the edges. You are looking for areas by the edge where the card doctor may have missed. It will show as a gloss and then abruptly stop to a dull section. Check the edges in case the person who was reglossing got a little carried away and went over the sides. This will show as a glossed edge, which is usually abnormal. It's not that easy to perfectly regloss a card without stopping just short of an edge (could be as little as 1/64" or less) or going over. <img src="http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/only_child/gloss3.jpg"> <img src="http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/only_child/gloss7.jpg"> As you can see this card has been reglossed right down the center (it was also bleached, lightly toned and a stain removed). Extra gloss was added to exaggerate the effect for display purposes. When done very subtly it can add an almost perfect natural factory gloss to a card. As with most alterations, this type has also tested the system...well over the limit. A 1987 Topps McGwire card was made into a highly glossed Topps Tiffany. It got a standard grade (a 9 I think) and was then cracked out. <img src="http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/only_child/55regloss.jpg"> Here is a 1955 Bowman card which normally has a bright gloss. The first shot shows how the card looks with half of the gloss stripped off. As you can see in the next picture the card has been reglossed and has a new look. I created small border chips on the right side to show this was altered from the original first picture. On this particular card the edges would be the key as the regloss process also made the dull edges somewhat shiny in many spots. In a case such as this it would probably be a number of small objective findings that would be used to make an overall opinion that the card has been altered. Kevin Saucier *edited to add the Bowman card.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: leonThanks again Kevin. I have always said that the uneven, natural gloss of a vintage card would be the most difficult thing to replicate. I have only seen a few of the Babe Ruth Candy cards where it was difficult to tell immediately of fraudulent activity. Generallly that "smooth" feel is what I look for. I was at lunch last week with Texas Ted and Rich K and Ted brought a box of vintage cards he had just bought. Two of the T206's were obvious fakes as I could tell immediately from rubbing the gloss through my fingers. The rest of the T206's he brought were nice, real cards. Ted knew but he just wanted a 2nd opinion...which I was happy to give. They were easy to tell.... best regards

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: AnthonyKevin- I've heard rumours about a lot of '55 Bowmans that have been reglossed recently and are getting thru all of the grading companies. Have you seen any of these? Have they been reglossed and then trimmed to hide the edge that wasn't covered? edited to say - Leon, I apologize for going over the pre War line, but figure if it can be done on '55 Bowmans it can be done on E93's as well.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: leonNo worries on going over the pre-war line on this side.....We will probably have another post war side in the next few weeks.....and something else too....regards

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin SaucierHey Anthony!!!! The 1955 Bowman's have a nice even gloss to them and would be a great example of a card where adding gloss would be beneficial should the factory coat be worn. In addition to that that particular year is very tough to detect trimming (I won't say why). I don't know if the Bowman's are getting through on a regloss/trim but would be real curious. The topic has not come up on the underground card doctor forum <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14>...LOL. I have a couple to work with. I will regloss one, see what it looks like and post the results. IMO...it will be hard to tell and the results should be a great looking surface. I'll also stop short and try to get a macro shot or a close up scan. Not sure if that will work. From what I have seen, reglossing is not a huge problem, unlike trimming. The finger dragging or skipping, for the most part, would be the best indicator for the high-end regloss alterations. A super slick surface would IMO be equal to a trimmed hack job. Again it's all in the feel of the cardboard, which helps if you know the issue. In a slab, the border-edges would be the first place to look. Kevin Saucier

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: JimCrandellKevin, Speaking about the 55 Bowmans and given your relationship with Mike I thought you might have a point of view on this. A little over a year ago GAI graded a large number of 55 Bowmans for Gary Moser and there was a huge number of star cards graded 92 and 96. The story was that PSA and SGC would not grade the cards. Do you have knowledge of what I am discussing and have you ever brought it up with Mike? Jim

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Rich KleinI opened a bunch of those 55 Bowman packs that Rosen found in Paris Tennessee. I will tell you that in those packs; almost every card came out a different size -- some slightly larger than standard; some the correct size; some smaller. 55 Bowman is notorious for terrible cutting like that. (Ted Z, if you have not yet left for Ohio, let me know what you think) So, in this case, without commenting on who submitted cards; you could have pack fresh cards; never touched; which were all goofed up for size. Quandry for a grading company -- what do you do with those legit cards? Rich

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: MatthewRich, could you tell a little more about that Bowman find in Paris TN. When, how many packs, what happened to them, etc. Thank you.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Rich Klein I opened a bunch of the packs; which were still floating around for a few years and I can tell you that the variance of sizes out of those packs is amazing. IIRC, Rosen bought a group of packs in Paris, Tennesse from someone who had stored these packs for 30 plus years at that point. There were so many packs; and some of them were not in condition to be sold as packs; but had to be opened for cards that could be salvaged that I got to open a bunch second hand when they got back to NJ Rich

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin SaucierSorry Jim, I have no clue about the 55's and Global. I do know that less than a year ago I showed Mike my style of reglossing, the exact process used and how to identify. I also gave them a high-gloss 1956 Adventure Tunney (normally kinda' dull) for their doctored card display collection, which will hopefully be at the National. Although it may not since Nationals are not on a Monday (LOL). Kevin

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Paul SRich -- I can also vouch for the difference in sizes of the 55 Bowman cards as being an original attribute of that set. I have maybe 100 or more, all acquired in the late 60's from various other collectors. More than enough of them verge on being a miscut.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Briangood stuff Kevin

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Marc S.To the extent that you are willing to trust the expertise and guidance of Kevin (which I know you are, Jim, as am I), Kevin reviewed for me about a dozen 1955 Bowman cards that had been cracked out of GAI holders, all graded 9 MINT, including one 9.5 GEM MINT and none graded lesser. Kevin was able to identify trimming, recoloring and glossing on nearly every example I sent him. I have since had a dealer/auction house tell me that he would no longer accept consignments of Global graded 1955 Bowman baseball cards. Additionally, I can probably give you the names of 6 or 7 other advanced 1955 Bowman baseball collectors who have bought high-grade 1955 Bowman GAI cards that they have since sold because they would not cross due to various alteration (and not M/G) issues.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin SaucierWell I'll be damned. Marc I didn't know that was the batch in question. I remember those very well but forgot they were cracked from Global holders. True, they had some problems. Sorry Jim and Anthony, it seems I do know a little (lot) about those high grade Global cards...LOL. The pic above is from that batch...it has recolored tips. Marc was nice enough to let me keep a couple to show others how to identify altered cards. Kevin

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: JimCrandellKevin, Does this surprise you that this many cards could get by Mike Baker--perhaps the premeir grader in the hobby. Frankly, I am stunned over this. At last years National a very highly placed source at one of the other two grading companies told me--"Jim, they are not legit"--"We would not grade them". Marc--I guess I am glad to be done with the 55 Bowman set(thanks to you) as I am sure those cards will be cracked out and resubmitted and resubmitted and resubmitted to PSA and SGC.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Petrer SpaethPerhaps Mike Baker is not the only person grading cards at GAI.

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin SaucierI can't speak for Global but my guess is Mike did not grade these. Some of the cuts on those Bowman's were obvious hack jobs. I just can't see this type of doctoring getting by him...or Danny. Kevin

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Marc S.Just wanted to make sure I posed in case a) you forgot about the fact the raw cards I sent you were GAI crack-outs, and b) that I have no qualms about you talking about the cards, as you inspected them extensively. Let the money I lost be a learning lesson for others!

How to detect a reglossed card - w/ examples

Posted By: Kevin Saucier"Let the money I lost be a learning lesson for others!" It is doing just that...look above at the Bowman pictures. Sorry you took a loss but congrats and thanks Marc for helping the hobby!