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Posted By: leonThey are still my pick for grading companies but there is no way a card that looks like this is only a 2 on a scale of 10. Just no way.......regards all..... <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2726877324&category=31 718" target=_new>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2726877324&category=31 718</a>

Posted By: warshawlawTwo creases on an otherwise near mint card is a vg at best. They might have been a little tough, but I can't tell from the scan if the card was ex-mnt or nm but for the creases. PS: I'll take a "30" like this over an uncreased "50" with rounded corners every time.

Posted By: leonNothing personal here but I don't really give a rat's behind about ANY grading system with respect to this kind of situation....if you have a scale of 10 this is not only 20% of a perfect card...that's what I meant.....yes, technically it might be correct but that is my point....I sort of think the whole grading "crap" is flawed sometimes......If I had never heard of a grading company I would say this card in in excellent condition (as a lay person)....regards

Posted By: petecldLeon, I agree with you 100% but I guess most will say my opinion is bias as I'm selling the card. I sent the card in thinking it was a "40" without question. What do I know. I have an E126 Cobb that got a 20 and I don't think ANY collector would call it a "fair" card. I will also agree that there have been some SGC 50 grades lately that have some pretty soft corners. Seems like just when I feel I have a grip on the standards - the standards change. The question is: "Was Derek too tough?" or "Are the new graders too generous?" Regardless, SGC will continue to get my business.

Posted By: BobThe question is: "Was Derek too tough?" or "Are the new graders too generous?">> I had an E94 Lajoie graded which looked like it was close to a 60, but at least a 50, and it came back a 40, so I see no difference in their strict grading of caramel cards, at least for me.

Posted By: Lee BehrensI recently sent in 11 vintage cards to SGC and I thought 2 were less than what I expected and one was higher than expected the other 8 were the grade I expected. I saw no difference from previous submissions plus the customer service was great as usual. Lee

Posted By: warshawlawSince time immemorial (or at least since I started collecting in 1971) multiple creases = good or vg. I don't think I'm out on a limb on this, either. For example, here is what Beckett said in 1988 in the Baseball Collectibles book: "A 'Minor Defect' would be . . . light crease on back. . . An Excellent card may have minor defects." He also wrote: "A 'Major Defect' would be . . . crease(s). . . a VG card may have one major defect. A Good card may have two or more major defects." Is this the irrefutable word from heaven? Nope. Can everyone have their own standards for grading? Nope. There has to be some consistency throughout the Hobby or we cannot converse accurately. I feel that my standards reflect the long-term "established" grading views of the Hobby and that SGC hits it on the nose nearly all the time. A card with more than one crease is vg at best. It isn't SGC or PSA or EIEIO's standard--it is pretty much an accepted standard among collectors. The card may have much better eye appeal but the grade is still the same. If not, we get into qualifiers, which I think we all agree is a pandora's box that only PSA has been dumb enough to open and only auctioneers are unscrupulous enough to employ ("excellent except for slight trimming"). I agree it is a raw deal when a nice looking card gets a lower technical grade. That doesn't make the grade indefensible, just frustrating for the seller. As I said, I will take a nice card with a crease over a crease-free card with more wear. My DeLongs type card is exactly that, a Bill Terry that is ex-mt but for a crease.

Posted By: Lee BehrensMy guess is that Pete's card will command far over the price a similar 30, because there are more than enough buyers out there buy the card and not the holder, and visually it is a great card compared to most 30's. It would be interesting though to see a comparision of the card sold raw and sold in this state. Just my thoughts, Lee