Buyers premium question
I understand that in many/most large auctions the AH owns some number of items flat out. I've seen buried in terms and conditions a provision that if you want to know which lots we own just drop us a line and we'll send you a list. Putting aside the question of why this info isn't openly disclosed, why should the AH collect a buyer's premium if they are already collecting 100% of the sales price and putting it in their pocket? Realize I'm whistling in the wind here, but isn't the whole idea of a buyer's commission is it's how the AH makes money when they are brokering OTHER people's property?
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If there was no buyer's premium the bids on those items would just go up. If an item is worth $X to you, it's worth $X to you, no matter whether the X is split between the seller and the AH, or whether the AH takes all of it.
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Auction houses still want to try to maximize as much revenue as possible so that's why they would still charge the BP. Also, it may be confusing to some bidders on which lots have BP and which don't. Finally, for some auctions, it's not only the AH that owns the lots, but also some employees who decide to consign their items. For the employees, it's likely that the AH would still charge them a portion of the BP.
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The only reason to have a separate BP rather than just take a cut of the final price is to take advantage of bidders who can't do math or don't remember that there is a BP. Given what I've seen on this site in the past when discussions of AH compensation have come up, the tactic probably works to some degree, because there clearly are some people who do not understand that the price of the item is price + BP and you have to bid accordingly.
Not directed at the OP or other responders here. |
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That an employee consigns something from his personal collection doesn't equate with the auction house itself making money off it, unless there's a a charge. An ethical auction house may say an employee can consign something, but (for ethical/fairness reasons) there has to be the normal charges-- they don't get an advantage just because they're employees.
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Auction houses
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Regardless of who owns the item, the auction house still has related selling expenses.
The auction software, photographer, description writer, catalogue publisher, and shipping/packaging personnel are all fixed costs that are paid either partially or in-full from the AH's Buying and Selling premiums. |
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Still for a cheap card for 100 bucks..it isnt much and you would think people paying 1000s of dollars know about the bp....the only secret sometimes that annoys people is the shipping price... |
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The opposite model is something we use every day. eBay takes a commission on every sale, with no BP. |
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Also comes down to bottom line.. For a lot of people its harder to sell at 50k card by just listing it on ebay or direct versus consigning with a AH... yes some cards you can do just as well on your own (assuming you are the average joe) as consigning but taken as a whole, most nice cards obtain a higher offer than we can do on our own...you are paying for that of course as you dont get the entire bid but lets not just pretend you are just losing 20%+ more than you would get on the card. Plus ebay you are losing 10%+ on the card. |
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In a perfect market buyers premium is completely irrelevant. Of course I agree. But when I took Economics 101 decades ago I didn't think anyone assumed perfect behavior. It's why car dealerships sell new Camrys for $23,000 with $1000 back, and only after you dig the financing statement out of the load of paper they gave you is it clear that you are paying over $40,000 for your new $23,000 car. And there were also 14 charges that you need to add in. We see the information we want to see sometimes. I made $800 day trading a stock yesterday. Well, no, you actually made less than $400 when taxes and brokers fee is counted. Again, while the info is all there to see, sometimes we focus on what we want to see.
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Something else that is just 'interesting', to me anyway. The seller's premium is the only unknown amount at the time the agreement to sell is made. When the agreement to buy is made, all costs are calculable at the time of the agreement (winning bid), barring undisclosed shipping costs, that is. Whether one calculates that amount is another thing. :)
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It's hard for me to believe as a practical matter that anyone ends up charging it, given how many alternatives there are for a consignor these days.
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That said, the key dudes at the major catalog AHs read these posts, so if I'm wrong, and you guys never charge a seller's commission, then please correct me and affirm Peter's disbelief. |
Um, Peter, who do you know who DOESN'T charge a seller's commission? Except on top dollar items everyone I am aware of (and that's most of the major houses) absolutely does charge.
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With regard to commissions, many of the AHs will waive it for a good consignment or consignor. If the item is really great, some will waive it and split the BP with the consignor. You just have to call around and negotiate. If a particular AH won't budge, your consignment is probably not a desirable one for that house.
As for the phony baloney sales techniques like giving a discount and then reclaiming it with BS fees and costs, that's my point exactly: the purpose of using a hammer price + BP rather than just a single price with a commission is to confuse confusable people. Remember, 50% of the people in the bidding pool are dumber than the average of the pool and at least one of them is the dumbest one there. Just like the car sales example, the more the AH confuses them with [gasp] math, the more likely it is that someone will overbid by failing to consider the BP. FWIW I think that is also why AHs don't always use round bid increments and easily calculated BP percentages. If you gotta bid 10% compounded and then figure a 23% BP (20% if paid by check), you are doing some algebra or you are just winging it. The more difficult it is to calculate the total cost of a bid on the fly the more likely it is that some of the mathematically-challenged out there will screw up and bid that next increment over budget. If you as an AH then charge 1% of the total price for insurance even though you have a flat rate general insurance policy and tack on mega charges for 'handling' and shipping which you reduce only for the people who whine (bet they'd have demanded that '33 Lajoie too), you are making money hand over fist. And if you are really ambitious, you can even offer to finance your dealers at say a point a month collateralized by their next consignment. But I digress... |
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I've never been charged by Goodwin, LOTG, Mile High, Legendary, or Sterling. Mine were certainly not top dollar items. Somewhere I compiled a chart of all the auction houses with bp, sp, closing methods, etc. |
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well Goodwin charged me, as does REA. I feel the charges are reasonable for the material I provided. Maybe I'm just not likable.
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I don't charge one, nor did Leon and I when we were together. I have consigned with many, many over the years and only paid 5% to one house in all those years.
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I have never given a consignment to an AH that demanded a commission. I can send the items to any of the AHs already mentioned at no commission or I can go with eBay. Lots of platforms to sell without getting pounded on both sides of the equation.
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Gratuity
Sam, you pegged it with a simple three letter word:rolleyes:
The BP or SP or some combination of that is just the tip! Like buying a fine meal, you just tip at the end and your price goes way up but somehow you feel okay. And the waiters (AH) get the money. |
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Sam -- try elsewhere, I think you will get a different reception.
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Also FTR those are WAY more expensive cards than the ones I've consigned. I am shocked they weren't commission-free.
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Regards, Larry |
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Happy collecting, Larry |
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