Collecting Vintage: Baseball vs. Football
 

Hey everyone,

For those of you that don't know me, I created www.antiquefootball.com a few years ago to provide free research on vintage football equipment. My main focus is pre-1920 equipment and memorabilia.

I've been a long time Net54 lurker and am amazed at the knowledge and passion of the baseball memorabilia collectors who frequent this site. Incredibily early and rare artifacts seem to pop up daily, and the collecting community is always willing to share information and provide advice assistance.

There is no comparable forum for vintage football collectors. My question to you all is why?

Since I was young (I'm 45 btw), I've always had a preference for football over baseball, and depending on who you ask, the number of current football fans across the country rivals those of baseball. Football went through a fascinating transformation from the violent, no holds barred melees played during the Civil War, to the rugby style game played for most of the remainder of the nineteenth century, to the evolutionary rules changes around the turn of the century in response to the increase of debilitating injuries and deaths on the field.

Despite what I see as an incredibly rich history, I estimate that the number of true vintage football collectors to be 1/10th to 1/20th of the number of baseball collectors.

Why doesn't the current popularity of the sport translate to collecting interest?

Are there fewer surviving artifacts?

Did more current sports collectors grow up in an era and location where baseball and its heroes were simply more relevant?

Have most baseball collectors had a more tangible connection to the sport (participation in their youth) than football collectors?

I'd love to hear your opinions on this issue and link to the discussion from my site with Leon's permission of course!


Chris Hornung
www.antiquefootball.com

I think your site is great and I certainly appreciate the history of football and vintage football collecting.

I think the answer to your question is that there is something -- albeit hard to define -- about baseball that captures our imaginations disproportionate to other sports. Baseball just lends itself to thought, analysis, statistics, and nostalgia in ways that, for instance, leads to far more books being written about it than other sports. We compare players across generations more easily in baseball, and that probably has something to do with it. As does the nature of the game itself, with a more relaxed pace that invites more thought during the games themselves than the immediacy and fleeting fun of football, basketball, and hockey.

Hi Chris...

First of all, great site. I've checked it out several times. Like you, I'm a football guy. 49 Years old. A passionate football fan. Just yesterday, I was bracing my wife for the fact that the first preseason game is just a little over a month away.

I collect only vintage football memorabilia...but own some baseball memorabilia. I have great respect for the game of baseball, especially it's history...but rarely watch a second of baseball before the playoffs start. For football, I go to training camp and preseason games and then consume every possible second of the sport from season's start until season's end.

What I love about this site is the wealth of knowledge, amazing collectors and collections. It's a great community and I check it for new posts at least once a day. I've made friends on here as well as a network of connections that have helped me with my collection.

There's nothing close to it for football out there. Why? I've thought about creating a site but I've got competing interests and priorities for my time. You're football collector vs baseball collector ratio is probably pretty close but I'd say closer to 1/20th.

I don't think there's any question, football is the most popular sport in this country, but that hasn't translated to collecting popularity or values. Many reasons for this. First, it's a matter of demographics. While football was played in the 1800's, it didn't gain any kind of national popularity until Red Grange came along in the early 20's...and that was specifically college football. The NFL didn't really start to take off until the invention of the TV and famously the 1958 Championship Game between the Colts and Giants. The NFL began to build momentum from that point on but didn't really begin to challenge baseball as the national past time until the 1970's. So baseball had essentially a century head start. That means there were generations of fans passing down the passion from grandfather to father to son. It also means the age of the average baseball fan is probably much older than the average football fan. Older fans tend to have more disposable income and also more of an interest in the past.

I keep hoping for the day football memorabilia popularity catches up to football popularity. Until it does, I'll enjoy the buyer's market.

Baseball vs. football
 

As someone who collects both baseball and football items, a few thoughts come to mind:

1) baseball has been part of "mainstream" culture (e.g., Babe Ruth, Casey at the Bat) for a longer period of time, with many teams in the same location for long periods of time. For example, I'm a Giants fan, and there are many years of items to collect/covet.

2) There are many more vintage baseball items than football items, so it is easier to be a baseball collector.

3) I wonder if many of us played baseball (or more baseball than football) as kids, even if it was not at an especially high level.

4) Maybe there is something (a shared personality trait) about the type of people who are drawn to baseball that makes them especially likely to be drawn to collecting (e.g., interest in statistics, analysis).

I really agree with all 3 posts above. I think more of us probably played Baseball as kids. Baseball was "king" during the 50s - 70s, and as adults we tend to get sentimental/glorify our childhood memories. I also believe it's a generational thing. When the current generation or two dies off, I have little doubt that Football will close the "collecting gap" with Baseball (at least somewhat).

I think it's a great time to invest in Football Memorabilia, but my true love is Baseball... just a personal thing, as it elicits more memories and emotions (plus, I was just better at it!)

Great question BTW, and I think this thread will go a very long way. Your Website and email blasts are very informative/entertaining, and will definitely recruit new collectors as they become increasingly aware of it. Great post!

Hey Chris. Good to hear from you, and great question. I have said it before, your site and the knowledge you provide is unparalleled, and you are the foremost ambassador for football collecting..Thanks!

Likewise, I agree with all the previous posts, but I think this is the single biggest factor...

"..Did more current sports collectors grow up in an era and location where baseball and its heroes were simply more relevant?"...yes.

Football has/had it's heroes, legends and lore..but not to the extent baseball had.

Another big factor is the influence baseball cards had on fueling collecting interests.

If you compare between baseball and football something like collecting equipment, i think you will find manly similarities. For example I have found the baseball glove collecting universe to be similar in size and passion as the football helmet collecting world - But when it comes to other items such as game and team related ephemera, and souvenirs, this is when the influence of baseball heroes kicks in, and baseball cards was the fuel for much of it.

For me personally I have a similar amount of football as baseball items, as well as just about every other sport :)

A good question with a few different answers.

For a long time, Baseball was more popular in general.
Pro football was almost an afterthought until fairly recently, and to some extent even today draws fewer fans than college football.

And there's part of the answer.
The equipment for football was for some items more expensive, and for others it was treated far more roughly than baseball equipment.
Helmets being expensive were probably reused year to year, until new ones were needed. College would have for sure, and I think pros as the teams didn't have much money.
For comparison, motorpacing helmets (similar in construction to a football helmet but with some added external padding) from the 1920's to probably 1950's were both expensive and used continually over a riders career. I've seen a few, maybe 5-10? And only saw one for sale. That one was a converted Spanish military or police helmet.
So a team only buying a few helmets and using them until they were almost useless seems reasonable.
Uniforms wouldn't have survived early foot ball well at all.
And the rest of the stuff, balls, cleats, noseguards, all would have been used as long as possible, and even a personally owned item after a couple years use wouldn't have been likely to get much care. And being leather after a while there wouldn't be much left that wasn't dried out and brittle.

Baseball stuff on the other hand, had a gentler existence (Compared to Football ) So uniforms while passed down from major league to minor league had a better chance of surviving.
Bats were mostly personally owned, and a player usually had several, replacing broken ones with a new batch once in a while.
Cleats would have the same problem as Football cleats, but with the larger popularity I'd think fewer got consigned to the ex-players garage or shed.

Similar things happen with cycling stuff, Jerseys survive pretty well, with silk jerseys surviving better than wool ones. The shoes and gloves weren't much use once the riders career was over, plus there was the whole "drenched in sweat" issue so worn ones wouldn't be saved.(Some riders drilled holes in the sole of the shoe as a drain!) The bikes even into the 1980's were considered and treated as tools. I heard of one rider who had about 10-15 bikes from his career that he piled behind his garage. The bike he won the Tour de France on got city bike handlebars and a luggage rack, and was used to get groceries from the local store for maybe 20 years until it was replaced with a cheap department store mountain bike that the rider was really happy with. (Happy ending to the story though, a fan who knew him rescued a couple of the bikes, and the price offered prompted the rider to sell the rest of the pile behind the garage to collectors)

So I'm not surprised if football stuff is harder to find.

Steve B

"So I'm not surprised if football stuff is harder to find."

I completely agree that vintage Football equipment and memorabilia is a lot harder to find. But typically (in the collecting world anyway) that makes it more valuable/expensive. That has not happened yet for Football vs. Baseball... unless it is a Gladiator Helmet, Heisman Trophy or something equally rare and spectacular.

I think it will eventually happen as todays kids and young adults mature and have more disposable income. I also agree with the previous comments about Baseball Cards being a major influence. As stated earlier... Kids today do not collect like that, and when the current generation dies off, it's a whole new Ballgame (so to speak!)

Great question and answers! Wanted to pile on and mention that I too throughly enjoy Chris' site and research!

I am baseball nut and collect 95% baseball items with a bit of soccer, basketball and football mixed (no hockey....I realize that I am a terrible Canadian in this regard). I had a vivid and unusual dream last night - I was visiting the Football HOF (I have never been) but it wasn't the actual HOF. Instead it was a football-museum-Mecca built on the side of a mountain and I got there late in the day and decided to target the dealer tables. They sold only football relics, no new stuff. I have always wanted a melon style football and this dealer in my dream had a cool one that he wanted $100 for. I hummed and hawed and then woke up, kicking myself for not buying it!

Even in my dreams I am searching for sports antiques and worrying about the one that got away!

Babe Ruth


I can name 100 players or more off the top of my head from baseball with most of their stats etc. early football? Jim Thorpe and a few others maybe.

Baseball always told a better story

How do you feel it compares to basketball? That seems like a whole other beast for collecting. The amount of money that is tossed at still playing/ alive stars cards seems unbelievable. I guess having a HUGE overseas market will do that?

That's debatable.

For me, personally, Baseball was the first sport I watched back in 1976 as a 5 year old. Chris Chambliss's home run that propelled the Yankees to the World Series captured my imagination and has held my love for the game ever since. I vaguely followed football soon after. I followed the Steelers cause they were winning championships. Loved the black & gold and was a huge Terry Bradshaw fan until I discovered my Jets. But, I was never as invested emotionally in football as a kid as I was with baseball. I love football now and it's my second favorite sport, but to me, baseball is king. I know the history of the game as I am still learning the history of football. I will definitely check out that football site. Thanks for the link.

Mike