Ebay Shill bidding?
 

I know Shill bidding is more prevalent on eBay than we even realize. The bidding pattern on this auction is very strange. Some of the bids by the same buyer were placed 2 seconds apart. Is it possible to place a manual bid that fast?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/orig-INCRED...YAAOSwN5RcvlCf

Yes. Ebay has a "quick bid" button usually.

Funny you should ask about this particular seller though. I've bought from him quite a bit and noticed strange bidding patterns as well. He seems to list items once a week...and his items seems to get bids within minutes of being listed...consistently.

He does tend to get very rare items so not insinuating anything...just something I noticed. It's an unusual pattern because with 7 day auctions, what's the point of bidding in the first couple of minutes. I don't notice it in other auctions I watch.

It's not possible for the same bidder to place a manual bid ONE second apart.

Just a guess here but if one were to bid to become the highest bidder then add an even higher bid number after the fact, would that higher bid not show as incremental bids every time the next bidder bids trying to become the highest bidder?

It's like starting out a brand new .99c auction. If one really wants the card you can place a $50 or whatever bid but it only shows as one .99 cent bid.
Another guy comes along and incrementally starts bidding beyond that .99 cent bid only to find out everytime he bids he has already been outbid by the initial bidder who place the $50 or whatever bid.

Nothing implied...Except Mr e***a (563) needs to rethink his bidding strategy, because I haven't found one auction he won. Also, he has very diverse taste in collectibles. Lastly, he apparently gets an alert when this seller lists items.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/XKDwbOZB" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/1e/de/XKDwbOZB_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

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<a href="http://imgbox.com/Fx9lgZZU" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/42/53/Fx9lgZZU_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/Hh5nLP3y" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/4d/e2/Hh5nLP3y_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/orfACon0" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/d5/28/orfACon0_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/OWmE3e8U" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/9f/d3/OWmE3e8U_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/AMMGEt8U" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/22/41/AMMGEt8U_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/rTfNQCFK" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/84/5d/rTfNQCFK_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/AcwXEcHf" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/31/ba/AcwXEcHf_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

<a href="http://imgbox.com/MXUewIG6" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/ba/5c/MXUewIG6_o.png" alt="image host"/></a>

Other than that, any concerns?:eek:

They show as incremental bids, but with accurate times. So If the top bid is 50, and I bid 10 they show the 10, but not each step between. If I go back a half hour later and bid 12 it shows the 12 and the half hour gap.


On a PC, it is possible to place multiple bids only a couple seconds apart manually. I managed to enter two inside the last 5-6 seconds one time. Still lost to a big snipe that came in at 3 seconds, with my bids at 5 and 2 seconds.

No suspicious activity as far as I can see?

Interesting. I've bought from this same seller as well. I agree with Fballguy that he often has interesting, uncommon items. On the items I purchased, the final prices seemed to be at about market value. Never a great deal, but never anything crazy.

As a seller, is there some benefit to having items with many bids? Does ebay somehow prioritize these items in searches? So that they show up to more potential buyers? (I always search by highest price.... just kidding)

Maybe items with bids get higher priority in search results over items with none? I don't know but it's definitely strange.

Surprised there's not more conversation on this interesting bidding phenomenon. Any theories on what the benefit is?

Shilling
 

I hope there's no shilling I have dealt with the seller for years never a problem.

Daryl Fraley

I know there are ebay resellers of all collectibles who will put opening bids on every auction listed at .99c as soon as they are listed as a blanket strategy hoping to win 1 item that falls through the cracks. It seems like something from an "ebay! Work from home" type of book.

And probably a few sellers that put very low bids on items to got the "it's already got a bid, it must be good" crowd.

There was an instance of this bidder placing a bid less than a minute after the item was listed. I know of no app or alert, that informs you that quickly of an item being listed. If there is one...what is it?

bid
 

I like that one.. " well, its already got a bid,, must be good " ! LOL

Also an opening bid eliminates the danger of someone making and offer or using a buy it now.

I am a eBay buyer and noticed when I wanted a 1989 Ken Griffey jr PSA 10 that the fix was in. Check it out for yourself. This card will sell at auction for around $400 every time. My theory is that sellers have created multiple accounts one to sell and one to buy. Possibly have their buddies/ coconspirators drive up the prices on their auctions. If their buddy wins then they keep the card and resell it again until it “auctions” for their price.

I haven't examined the bid patterns posted and am accusing no one of anything. However, I did want to point out that shill bidding can be used to prevent low sales and not just to raise high sales to artificial heights.

Could that $400 price area also be the market price for a 1989 UD Griffey PSA10? Am I missing sarcasm?

This seller doesn't offer buy it now or best offer. Straight auction.

I would think a smart shill bidder would only shill bid on under performing items and only up to reasonable market value so as not to throw up any red flags. If you shill way over market value every time...well forget it...who would be that bold.

yes ... who? :)

funny
 

I was just listing cards the other night and very shortly (not sure if it was under a minute, but it could have been) I start getting emails about offers to buy 5 things I just listed.

A one off situation I could maybe understand. But every listing the guy puts out there? How does he know so quickly? Unless he spends his days and nights hitting the refresh button on his search results every 10 seconds, not sure how you'd accomplish that.

The hyperbole by some here has gotten off the tracks. Jon Richmond is a straight shooter and long-time hobby dealer that does not deserve this crap. A simple sampling of the 95 items he has listed on eBay right now shows this whole thread is much ado about nothing.

I just went through the first 20 items listed via the "Best Match" feature and EXACTLY TWO ITEMS had an initial bid by so-called "Shill Bidder 523" albeit it was within five minutes and 11 minutes of their original start times. Far from "every listing this guy puts out there." Plus the guy makes an initial bid and then never bids again. Not my definition of shilling by a long shot. I'm not going through them all, that's more than enough of a sample size for me.

I get near immediate offers or sell things very quickly that I list all the time as Howard mentioned earlier. No surprise there. People's eBay trolling habits are not my concern or worth my time. If people really want to get their panties in a bunch, why not show some concern about the actual heathens in this hobby in the other threads on the first page instead of these useless, trumped up accusations about an honest guy?

I'm not accusing him of shill bidding...I'm just wondering how someone gets alerted so quickly so consistently. I don't see much advantage in being the first bidder immediately after an item is listed in auction format, but if an item is put up with buy it now, that could come in handy.

And if you only found 2, how did I find 10? And I found many more than 10, I just got tired after 10. There is no way you looked at 20 and only found 2. 48% of this persons bids are with this seller and he placed nearly 200 bids in the last 30 days. You must've been very unlucky in your research.

Better think about changing the title then - first you're slamming an honest seller and now you're calling me a liar. Quite the shovel you've got there Rob. The link I used to eBay is at the top of this page - click the "see other items" link on the listing page to all his auction items (just taking the tools provided us). Check my work - it's 2 for 20, unless you're too tired. :)

Not sure what for and why do you care so much? He still bids once and never bids again on the two items I found. What's the big deal? Who knows, every once in awhile the guy may get lucky and win an item - no harm in that is there? I used to deliver to a store that had new eBay listings just rolling up on his computer as they were newly listed almost like a stock ticker. Don't know how he did it or how he had it set up like that, didn't really care. Apparently you do and are willing to tarnish an honest seller's reputation in the process.

Well Tim...This isn't my thread so not my title to change. If that's indicative of your attention to detail, I guess we know why you only found two.

If there's an app out there that would alert me as soon as my favorite sellers lists an item, I'd like to have that.

The eBay app and website allow you to put sellers as part of your search terms on your feed, which they show most recent listings for all your saved searches:
https://www.ebay.com/feed

General statement Rob, never said it was your thread although you're clearly the one who has taken it in the direction it has went and run with it. By the way, you only found four current examples in your posted findings above. Again, much ado about nothing. Apparently reading comprehension and math are gifts not everyone enjoy.

So the original poster suspects shill bidding...but I took it in that direction? What direction did the original post take it then?

If you read my posts they're all in regards to how a bidder can find out about a listing so quickly...and how I can do the same. And what's the point of bidding so quickly? Maybe you should direct your outrage in the right "direction".

Geez Rob, comprehension is quite the challenge for you eh? You're giving that shovel some workout today. You see I am actually quite attentive to details and the OP's original question was basically answered in post #2 by Bobby for all intent and purposes. It was then that you chimed in and took the thread in another direction and have had the large majority of posts since (should that set off alarms like bidder 543?). The OP actually made his final post in the thread right after your original post, then you started on your mission to sully Mr. Richmond's reputation with this bogus snipe hunt about some guy you found that places mostly a lot of $1.00 and $1.05 opening bids on his items. Just what does this have to do with shill bidding anyway? Do you now comprehend? You changed the direction and basically brought another reason to light with your bogus theory for people to bring into question this seller.

You took dead aim at Mr. Richmond with your first post then expanded it even though you showed only four bids from bidder 543 of his current 95 items listed after your deep dive into bidding records until you got tired. Or were these the only current bids you could find? Doesn't matter. Opening bids such as these are harmless. Then after about 24 hours when no one was taking your bait you post some dribble about this "interesting bidding phenomenon" to try and stir some response to your conspiracy ideals. Then the final straw was earlier today when you made your crack about Mr. 543 bidding on "every listing the guy puts out there."

I don't opine often here but will when I see unwarranted character assassination and something like this take place. There are plenty of good eBay sellers here on Net54 that I would take the same position on and support them also. Look we learned in this thread both how bids can be made so quickly and also how to get recent listings quickly through an app feed (Thanks John!). As I said before, there are plenty of bad actors out there - why not concentrate your efforts where they're more useful instead of at an honest seller who's just collateral damage in your misguided trek?

There is also the possibility that this seller puts out an eBay newsletter. He can show all his new listings in the newsletter. The buyer might have signed up for his newsletter. So, as soon as he gets the newsletter, he places his bids.

I have several regular buyers who bid on multiple items as soon as it listed.

I'm surprised Tim is the only one standing up for Jon, so I will reluctantly chime in. I bought from him in like 1998, and a few times later. He once admonished me because I said in an ebay auction, "I have been buying and selling vintage baseball cards for twenty years." He sent me an ebay email when that was a thing, like darby's does/did, and said, "who are you? 20 years? I've never seen you." I explained that I was not saying that I was a circuit dealer for 20 years, but it was true that I had "bought and sold vintage cards for 20 years." Funny to see this dealer now tied up in all of this. If you list at .99 like we all want you to, the cuckoos will come out.

You seem exceptionally dim but I have to ask. Why do you keep bringing up "current" bids? What difference does it make if they're current or not?

You apparently aren't very familiar with ebay so to you it's not odd that there's a bidder that likes to bid immediately then never again...repeatedly. I spend a lot of time researching sale prices and auction results on ebay and to me it's unusual. I'm just curious as to what the advantage or point of it is.

And if you're compelled to bloviate another wall of moronic words in response, make sure you include a direct quote in which I accused anyone of anything. If you can't do that....then just stop typing.

The guy you are attacking and the seller you are attacking are not the bad guys. It's as simple as that.

Where did I attack anyone? Quote me please. I've been buying from this seller for at least 10 years and have an item en route as I type. It's the bidder I'm curious about.

If you want to chime in with your NY atty buddies, Jeff and Peter, about Doug A., then I will stand idly by. Rob

I have not sold on ebay in 10 years. One of the reasons I stopped selling is b/c of the weird bidder activity. I like to trade with you guys.

I thought he "felt attacked". I was an English major. Happy collecting.

I do it regularly on items that I want to show up in my bids page, and usually to get rid of a Best Offer option on items; eBay notifies you more often on the app if you've placed a bid than if you just watch it. Then I pay attention to those items and if I want to win it, place a snipe bid at the end. If the bidding exceeds what I would pay, I never bid again. So that's the point. Just another way to watch an item.

There would be no advantage to the seller, which makes the whole notion of the buyer and seller in some sort of bidding collusion, silly.

The advantage to the bidder is that once in awhile he may win something at a great price. I know there have been items I've been very interested in but wanted to wait until the end to bid, and then either forgot, or when I tried to place my bid, ebay made me go through the login process and I didn't get my bid in, and the item went way too cheap.

I play chess online a lot. At some sites, my games last less than 10 moves because some kid who only knows how the pieces move decides to play in the Advanced lounge. It's a waste of time for me, but I suppose the kid likes to think he's playing chess. So when I see this type of ebay bidding, I do not immediately assume some nefarious master strategy at work - I figure it's kids without huge resources, who like to bid, and hope maybe they'll get lucky now and then.

By the way, I used to deal frequently with Tim about 30 years ago, and he's one of the really good guys I remember from those days, so I think insults directed towards him say more about you, frankly.

Nobody ever said it was an advantage to the seller. I'm trying to understand the motivation of the bidder. Haven't you picked up on that yet? Despite my repeatedly stating it? I think the notion of "maybe winning something at a great price" is a little far fetched when you consider the calibre of items being bid on.

As for Tim...He came in guns blazing. Nobody took potshots at him first.

If you called me "exceptinally dim" I would probably agree with you. Most people takr that as an insult. Jonstats or whatever his ebay name is, is not a hobby concern.

Definitely not accusing you of being "exceptinally dim", just suggesting you look at the sequence of posts.

I don't know who outbid me. It was prolly Steve. I know it wasn't Dr Cycleback.

I'm not the guy that said he bids on "every listing the guy puts out there." That was you and is completely false - so have it your way, it's inconsequential. If it's current or not and no matter whatever number you pull from the air it's just simply not true - 2, 4, 20, 200 it doesn't matter. I don't care, it's not the point and apparently you still don't even realize what you've done with this thread. Just how do you suppose the guy got up to a 543 with 100% feedback if he never wins an item? Is it another seller's account? Why do you care so much about some joker that places $1.00 bids on items? Big deal!

You call it bloviating, I call it laying out the facts. That's the trouble with facts, they don't go away and they don't change. I notice you haven't disputed any, just mockery and the hurling of insults as a response. The truth hurts sometimes doesn't it sport. As far as me coming in guns a blazing, you better go read that first post again - I didn't get punchy until you called me a liar and started with the ridicule.

I'm going to take your advice though and quit typing, you're a lost cause and not worth the effort. It's obvious King Rob is just going to sit on his throne and pass judgement no matter how ill advised. I think ol' Dim Tim will go log on to eBay too. After nearly 20 years as a seller and over 20,000 positive feedbacks, I guess I better start to get familiar with it.

ebay
 

When I was selling on ebay there were people who bid immediately after I posted...I think some people have alerts on their account when someone posts cards for sell...I agree with Tim and Robert that Jon has been around forever and I don't recall any issues with him...Jerry