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Leather Football Helmet
Hello,
I am a new collector to the sports scene, but a long time collector of WWII militaria focusing on German Helmets. I coach football and have been doing historical research of the school I coach at and been researching newspapers and old photos. I would like to get into collecting vintage football equipment. I know in the militaria collecting field there are several websites, message boards and books that cover the various subjects. Can someone point me int he right direction? Thanks, Bryan |
Bryan
If you check out Antiquesportsshop.com you will see a good amount of football memorabilia for sale. Keith posts on the boards here and he is very knowledgeable.He also has a sold section so you can see other examples of items. He normally has a pretty good description of the item including when it was made. Corey also has a good amount of football items.. antiqueathlete.com. He also has a sold section for examples Other will chime in as well Good luck Matt |
I currently have a nice rare example of a Honus Wagner Sporting Goods helmet for sale.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESE:IT |
Newbie Merry Christmas
Hello Bryan, Welcome to Net54. I’m not aware of a forum such as Net54Baseball.com that focus’ on vintage football equipment, or even just vintage memorabilia in general. As far as I know this site has more posts about those subjects than anywhere. It’s mostly baseball here but football pops up occasionally, as well as other sports.
However there are a few non auction sites that sell vintage football equipment and memorabilia, along with other sports…I list a few key ones below. If you’re new to vintage football collecting just seeing what’s out there is educational. You’re going to want to become familiar with all the different eras and styles of equipment. http://www.sportsantiques.com/pg12brimstory.htm#*Part 1* If you’re completely new to it all there’s a lot to learn…The first intercolligient football game was in 1869 between Princeton and Rutgers…It was more a soccer game than what we have today…then over the next ten years the game quickly changed from soccer to rugby to classic American football, see link above for closer look….no helmets were worn till the 1890’s starting with what’s now called a “four spoke head harness”…Then came what’s called the “rain cap” helmet…then the “dog ear” style helmet…then the “Princeton” style and so on…These were ahead of the 1930’s Rockne style helmets that are more well known as classic leather helmets… <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=RainCapBlack.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/RainCapBlack.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=WilReed1910FlatTop.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/WilReed1910FlatTop.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=DSC05281.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/DSC05281.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=MCX.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/MCX.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=DogEar1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/DogEar1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=351PrincetonHelmet.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/351PrincetonHelmet.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=EXECUTIONERHELMETLELANDSD EC2002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/EXECUTIONERHELMETLELANDSDEC2002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> There’s also a style from the 30’s called an “executioner” that has leather face guard and that is quite rare and has become quite sought after. Then you have your rubber nose guards from the 1895-1905 era….and you have your union suits worn from about the mid 1880’s till about 1910…and the different variations of it….then you have the different kinds of cleats worn that changed over time….jerseys, and all the styles… Then if you’re get into the memorabilia you’ve got trophies, plaques, statues, silver, prints and all the variations from the wood cut engraving to the chromolithograph, paintings, posters, games, toys, etc etc…And all those areas have many sub-variations....So there’s a lot to learn about! <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=UPennFBPillowMastro.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/UPennFBPillowMastro.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=Bradley.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/Bradley.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=JohnRogersLelands4_07.jpg " target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/JohnRogersLelands4_07.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=CloseIn-3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/CloseIn-3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PennFBGirl.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PennFBGirl.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=FullCrop.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/FullCrop.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT6835.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT6835.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=FullShot.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/FullShot.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=RugbyPipeclose-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/RugbyPipeclose-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=McloughlinFBTop.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/McloughlinFBTop.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=AntiqueSportsUniformsEqui pment.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/AntiqueSportsUniformsEquipment.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> http://www.sportsantiques.com/johngbook.htm The number one book on the subject is ANTIQUE SPORTS UNIFORMS & EQUIPMENT 1840-1940 Baseball Football Basketball by Dan Hauser, Ed Turner, and John Gennantonio, You can find it on eBay and Amazon…and if you want an autographed copy I can hook you up with one of the co-authors John Gennantonio, send me a PM for his contact. You can preview the book in the link above. Many sports auctions will have some vintage football equipment but the auctions that seem to have the most would be Leland’s, Hunt, and Legendary…and of course eBay. As for shows, the once a year National Sports Collectors Convention would be the most target rich of any….It’s held in a different city every year….I’ve covered the National for my website SportsAntiques.com since 2003, minus 2010 and 2012…and posted tons of photos of what was there….see links below http://www.sportsantiques.com/03NatStory.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/04NatStory.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/05NatSCCMain.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/2006national.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/2007NA...tionalmain.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/2008natmain.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/09natstorypg1.htm http://www.sportsantiques.com/2011_nat_carlton_buys.htm Dealers Sites http://www.antiquesportsshop.com/index.html http://www.antiqueathlete.com/ http://bobmccannsports.com/ All this should keep you busy for a while...good luck and Merry Christmas. -Carlton |
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Great topic. Great stuff Carlton.
Here's some of my items. |
Welcome to the site Foamspoon. Always great to see another Militaria collector. I was a big WW2 militaria collector before Sports memorabilia as well and now dabble in TOO many areas. Its a disease, be careful.
If you are looking for some old leather football helmets I would advise to keep looking and be aware that they are out there and can be had at a good price. If you are patient and keep your eye open, you will be able to find a helmet for a reasonable price. |
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Broadsides
Carlton,
That 1902 Yale team and the 1920 rose bowl piece are outstanding. I almost missed the sweater ad too. Those pieces are awesome |
Thanks all
Our new member Foamspoon Bryan seems to have stopped in for a cup of joe and forgot to return....I hope he gets all this instruction and help. If not at least he started a good thread
Phil, Thanks.....and back at ya....Those are certainly all top grade helmets in very good condition. I like the darker hard shell one on the right of the top photo....like I say they're all premium examples....I'll take a guess you go for quality over quantity. That Princeton seems to have a black top. If so never seen one like that. The Princeton seems to be one of the toughest styles to find. So how long did it take you to acquire a collection like that?...and how did you? Did you get them out of auctions or straight sales?....you're to be commended...Do you collect any other areas of early football memorabilia? Mr. Jason Sir, Thanks for the approval...not all those pieces are mine, I just used photos that were handy to give Bryan some food for thought...however those three pieces you mention do happen to be mine. Harvard has an example of the 1920 Tournament of Roses poster in their football Coach's Lounge. I saw it when I was there at Harvard to shoot their trophies in 2011. Interestingly my guide Renny Little, Harvard's trophy curator, told me they had one that got stolen, and the one they have now was donated my an alum. Link below to see they're example and read the story. http://sportsantiques.com/pg7brimsstory.htm <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=BradleyFBSweaterCrop_zps2 d13bde6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/BradleyFBSweaterCrop_zps2d13bde6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Yeah that Bradley Sweater poster was a nice find . There is a Bradley Sweaters trifold window display I've seen surface a couple times that is off the chart. The last one I saw at the 2006 National, which you can see in the link below in the late Tony Bussineau's booth http://www.sportsantiques.com/06natpage1.htm <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=1902YaleTeamPoster_zps0ac 394e3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/1902YaleTeamPoster_zps0ac394e3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT5623_zps82ba05a8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT5623_zps82ba05a8.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> That 1902 Mogul Cigarettes poster just came in real handy. There's a player on there named Harold Metcalf who played fullback. Recently there was a find of a bunch of Yale hats and sweaters that belonged to him. A friend of mine got two of the sweaters so I dug up some bio of Metcalf to go with them. <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=HaroldGMetcalfBioStitch_z ps5f1df79b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/HaroldGMetcalfBioStitch_zps5f1df79b.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=HaroldGMetcalfStitch_zps9 d663273.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/HaroldGMetcalfStitch_zps9d663273.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...mode=fullstory Also on the Mogul Cigs poster is a portrait of Tom Shevlin who played Defensive End and was one Yale's greatest all time players...as well as being probably college footballs all time most colorful personality...race car driving playboy millioniare undergrad... below a foreboding grimacing photo of him...Above is a link to a July 21, 2012 story on him in the New Haven Register. <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=TomShevlin_zpsf8b7eb75.jp g" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/TomShevlin_zpsf8b7eb75.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> |
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Thanks Carlton. Yes that Princeton does have a black top. I will get a better picture or two for you over the weekend and post. I got that helmet in a Mears auction. I am now collecting for quality over quantity like you guessed. I want to add high grade examples of types that I don't have (Executioner anyone?). I have been collecting helmets and other football memorabilia for about 15 years. I would say about 3/4 of my collection I have got on eBay. Others with other auction houses (Mears, etc.) The helmet with shoulder pads (Spaulding) I got about 13-14 years ago when I placed a "Wanted To Buy" add in my local newspaper (Cape Cod, MA). Somebody called and I got the Spaulding Helmet and matching shoulder pads in fabulous condition for $150.00. I'll post more pictures this weekend. Phil |
thanks guys I am here! Absorbing everything in and searching the web. Deciding where I am going to start. Thanks for the great photos and info!
Bryan |
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More pictures:
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Not a Princeton
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Below is a good example of a Princeton style helmet...I don't know exactly for sure why it's called a Princeton but I think they were advertised as such in catalogs...I think Spalding catalogs. This one is a Reach. Generally I think helmets made by Spalding are the most sought after....and I think that's generally true with all antique sports equipment, baseball, football, etc. Some of the other football helmet makers would be, Victor, Wright and Ditson, then I think Wright and Ditson and Victor merged into "Victor Wright and Ditson"...then you've got Reach, Draper Maynard (D&M), Lowell and Campbell, Goldsmith, Thomas Wilson, Remington...then later in the 40's I think there was, McGregor, Rawlings, Wilson, etc etc....I'm just giving a quick overview of ones I recall off the top my head but there are a lot of collectors that collect primarily equipment who would know them all...way better than me. Equipment is just one of the things I collect. <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=351PrincetonHelmet.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/351PrincetonHelmet.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> http://www.sportsantiques.com/portlandpg6.htm There was another lesser known helmet maker named Schmelzer out of I think Kansas City....I once scored a killer dog ear by them on my way back from the Portland Expo antiques show in Portland Oregon which you can read about in the link above...gave a whopping $29.00 for it, and the way I came upon it is memorable...I also give the Schmelzer company history in the story... <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT7955_1600x1200_zpsc85 66d64.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT7955_1600x1200_zpsc8566d64.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT7958_1600x1200_zps569 294df.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT7958_1600x1200_zps569294df.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> |
Princeton helmet
The term Princeton style helmet in my opinion is in reference to the trianglular shaped leather attachments from the top of the helmet to the sides. The most common (abeit still very rare) is the four attachment style. I believe one of the auction houses had an 8 attachment Princeton style helmet that sold earlier this year. That was the first of those I had seen, other than the one shown in John Gennantonio/Ed Turner/Dan Hauser's book.
The helmet Phil showed has a very similar look in design to Princeton helmets, without having those tab like attachments. If I had it, I would call it a flattop helmet, with a Princeton style look. Regardless of the nomenclature, its a beautiful helmet. I love that Schmelzer helmet Carlton - an incredible antique shop find to be sure. |
Princeton style helmets
Here are the 2 Princeton style helmets I've had in the past that were definitely football helmets. I did also have a pair of beautiful Princeton style helmets, that had custom factory applied visors applied to the forehead. These were most likely made for Lacrosse, but they were identical to football helmets in every way except for those visors.
The descriptions of these Princeton helmets can be seen at antiquesports.co http://www.antiquesports.co/Princeto...tSpResize2.JPG http://www.antiquesports.co/Princeton1Resize.JPG |
Does anyone collect lacrosse stuff?
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Lacrosse?
Keith, Very good elaboration on the "Princeton"....I never even thought about those nuances....I have a Princeton but it's sort of on loan at the moment...I think it has four spokes/tabs that attach to the main body...
Yeah that Schmelzer....then later a collector read the story, knew what I paid and had to have it...after turning down a couple offers I acquiesced...The buyer coaxed me by telling me as much I'd be able to brag about the profit margin...I leaned back with my feet up and hands behind my head after that one... Bryan, I don't think I've ever met a Lacrosse collector....I have a very few lacrosse items....a few old sticks....a small early American lacrosse trophy...and a very rare lacrosse board game (top only)....I would buy something lacrosse if it were a killer display piece....like an antique statue or figural trophy...Oh yeah that's right I do have a statue of a lacrosse player missing the top of the stick. One time I was at a book show in San Francisco...there were a lot of dealers from around the country...and I spotted a lacrosse broadside to die for....phenomanal, classic broadisde about late 19th century. I can't remember who the teams were but as I recall it was American...Dealer said he got it there at the show and didn't want to sell it. This was maybe 15 years ago and had I known what I know now...I'd have hurled money at the guy till he caved...never seen anything like it since... <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT5626_zps83c8b9bb.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT5626_zps83c8b9bb.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/?action=view&current=PICT5639_zps53a183cf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc120/CarltonHendricks/PICT5639_zps53a183cf.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> |
Lacrosse collectors
I have dealt with one lacrosse collector in the past - I'm not sure how many are out there, but I am sure they exist. Lacrosse seems to be more popular today than it was 20 years ago or so, so perhaps down the road it will be more collected. I only have 2 lacrosse items in my collection, and only because they are Carlisle Indians school items. The first is a 1910 Carlisle Lacrosse team cabinet photo - the 2nd is a Carlisle Varsity Award letter given to a lacrosse player, and signed by Pop Warner. Both are on the Carlisle section of my Collectors showcase page on antiquesports.co, but here are a couple of photos.
http://antiquesports.co/WarnerVarsityLetterR1.jpg http://antiquesports.co/CarlisleLacrosseR1.jpg http://antiquesports.co/CarlisleLacrosseR2.jpg |
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Neat LaCrosse stuff, Keith and Carlton... an obscure segment of the hobby, to say the least...
I have absolutely nothing to contribute with regard to LaCrosse, other than the picture on the left below, which I believe to be one of the Princeton style Helmets with the LaCrosse Visor attachment. The photo on the right is perhaps my favorite of all the Princeton Styles. A holy grail Spalding Model with black "scalloped" top portion... The 3rd photo is from an early Spalding Catalogue, showing obscure items like Collar Bone Protectors, Nose Masks and Beehive style Helmets. Happy Collecting! |
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Here's some photos of my nose mask:
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that nose mask is great! Is it rubber?
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Yes. Extremely "hard" rubber.
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