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-   -   (First?) Openly gay MLB umpire retires (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=248768)

conor912 12-12-2017 11:27 AM

(First?) Openly gay MLB umpire retires
 
The concussion part aside, I was surprised that this flew under the radar when he came out....or maybe it didn't and it just slipped past me. I understand if he didn't want it to, but once out, usually stories like this find a way to leak.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ind...t_retires.html

Tedw9 12-12-2017 01:24 PM

I think its fantastic that if flew under the radar and no one made a big deal out of him being gay. I never heard about it and obviously the players nor his fellow umpires had any issue, which is how it should be.

Maybe there is hope after all. :)

conor912 12-12-2017 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedw9 (Post 1728881)
I think its fantastic that if flew under the radar and no one made a big deal out of him being gay.

Agreed...it just usually doesn't work that way which is why I was surprised.

pclpads 12-12-2017 03:24 PM

For me, this is a "so what" deal? Like a smelly fart in a crowded elevator: Today, it occurs more than you might think. Happy for him and his partner. While it may be an encouraging sign of the shift in attitudes, unfortunately there are still far too many troglodytes and bigoted bone brains who will see this as another indicator of the end of civilization as we know it, light their torches and march in stupid and futile protest.

Snapolit1 12-12-2017 07:05 PM

Yeah, it will be a better world when all these stories fly under the radar screen. If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever. I can't understand it. Glad he's enjoying his retirement.

conor912 12-13-2017 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1728994)
Yeah, it will be a better world when all these stories fly under the radar screen. If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever. I can't understand it. Glad he's enjoying his retirement.

...though I also think stories like this getting out there help inspire others to come forward. They're two very compelling sides to the coin.

packs 12-13-2017 01:55 PM

Sports has always been dominated by macho crap and every sport is still full of bigots. Stories like these should be told and told often so that the bigots begin to be outnumbered. Dismissing it as non-news is a nice sentiment but unfortunately is not reflective of the society we're still plagued by.

Snapolit1 12-13-2017 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912 (Post 1729187)
...though I also think stories like this getting out there help inspire others to come forward. They're two very compelling sides to the coin.

Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.

conor912 12-13-2017 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1729197)
Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.

Amen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1729191)
Sports has always been dominated by macho crap and every sport is still full of bigots. Stories like these should be told and told often so that the bigots begin to be outnumbered. Dismissing it as non-news is a nice sentiment but unfortunately is not reflective of the society we're still plagued by.

I'm not one to stir the pot usually, but it does make you wonder if MLB or another entity suppressed it. It just seems like too low hanging of fruit to not get picked by the media.

Edited to add: I'll be dammed
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/0...ut-as-gay.html

Peter_Spaeth 12-13-2017 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1729197)
Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.

Prejudice is one of those things that seems to very successfully pass down from generation to generation, as Rodgers and Hammerstein so brilliantly expressed in their song in South Pacific. But we can hope.

Snapolit1 12-13-2017 07:56 PM

When I was in high school, mocking gay stuff was de riguer. The way to insult another guy. If there was even a vague hint of anything legitimately gay people pounced. Terrible.

My boys are 21 and 18. They have had gay friends since they were in their early teens. It means nothing to them. I think the world has changed. I really do. 40 years ago a black man wanted to walk down the street holding a white girl's hand and heads turned. Or worse. The world changes. You wouldn't know it from reading the news headlines but I really think we are are heading in the right direction on acceptance.

packs 12-14-2017 07:09 AM

I think we are too. But this kind of hate is pervasive. People might not even actually hate someone for their sexuality, but the thoughts are so ingrained that when it comes time to insult someone, like you said, it's the first thing that comes to mind. Look at Kevin Pillar last year. He was suspended 2 games for what he said to Jason Motte. Pillar said it's not a word he ever uses, but when it came time to insult someone it was the word that came out of his mouth.

Leon 12-14-2017 07:10 AM

It's just not news any longer. I have my own beliefs but whatever others do in their personal life, I don't honestly care, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I am married to a woman and have been for almost 23 yrs. It's not news either. Actually what I don't like is having all of the gay or anti-gay crap always thrown at me. As the Beatles sang, Let it Be.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapolit1 (Post 1728994)
If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever.

I don't lose sleep over it and whatever people do in their own bedroom is definitely their own business, but I am sick and tired of having it all shoved down my throat. Why does the article even mention it? Why do I need to know what his sexual orientation is?

Here is another article about 4 MLB umpires retiring. Nowhere does it mention what their sexual orientation is. Is it relevant to the article? Does the reader care?

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/02/21/...-have-retired/

I'm tired of seeing rainbow bumper stickers on the back of cars, rainbow flags, gay parades, etc.. I'm heterosexual, but I don't go out of my way to make it known to people. There is no bumper sticker on the back of my truck announcing it. I don't participate in parades celebrating my heterosexuality.

As Leon said, it's just not news anymore. The world doesn't need to know your sexual preference. Keep it to yourself. If you need to announce it, you're just looking for attention.

packs 12-14-2017 10:52 AM

Sexual orientation does still matter to a large part of the population. It's not something that is just glossed over in daily life. The Supreme Court neglected to rule on protections for LGBT employees 2 days ago. People use the bumper stickers to show pride in something that has been shunned for the majority of history. It's totally understandable why someone would be proud to be who they are without having to hide it in a world that reinforces secrecy.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1729406)
People use the bumper stickers to show pride in something that has been shunned for the majority of history.

Fill in the blank were shunned for a majority of history in this country too, but I don't see them with bumper stickers on the back of their cars to show their pride.

packs 12-14-2017 11:56 AM

Why would that preclude someone else from having one? I’m not seeing the connection.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1729433)
Why would that preclude someone else from having one? I’m not seeing the connection.

Let me approach this from a different angle. Why does the article have to mention his sexual preference? How is that relevant to his retirement whatsoever? Why does the reader need this information? If it matters, why didn't the other article that I linked include the umpires sexual preference?

It's useless garbage, poor journalism and you know it and just don't want to admit it.

packs 12-14-2017 12:11 PM

I already said why it's important to have stories like this one in my previous posts.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:16 PM

And I already said ones sexual preference doesn't matter and they should keep it to themselves in one of my previous posts.

packs 12-14-2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729443)
And I already said ones sexual preference doesn't matter and they should keep it to themselves in one of my previous posts.

But that's your opinion about yourself. I'm talking about the world at large, where preferences do still matter.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:22 PM

No, I'm pretty sure the majority of the world doesn't care about others sexual preference. I don't know anybody - friend, neighbor, co-worker, relative, associate, celebrity, other - that I care to know their sexual preference.

The fact that you do care to know about others sexual preferences is actually quite disturbing. But that's just my opinion. Then again, I have other things to concern myself with.

packs 12-14-2017 12:24 PM

The Alabama race featured a candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal. He was running for a seat in the Senate.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1729448)
I care that people are able to express themselves and be who they are, and are able to put that person on full display any way they choose. The Alabama race featured a candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal. He was running for a seat in the Senate.

Let me get this right. You "care that people are able to express themselves and be who they are", but the candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal can't express himself/herself (I'm not familiar with the candidate or the story) if that's who they truly are? So people are only allowed to express themselves when it correlates with your own beliefs? I gotcha now. Spoken like a true liberal.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:32 PM

Nice edit.

packs 12-14-2017 12:33 PM

He had every right to voice his opinions. When did I say he didn't?

Cliff Bowman 12-14-2017 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729447)

The fact that you do care to know about others sexual preferences is actually quite disturbing. But that's just my opinion.

Identity politics is EVERYTHING to them.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 1729452)
He had every right to voice his opinions. When did I say he didn't?

Your post inferred that he didn't - that you were criticizing him for his point of view. If that's not the case, why did you even bring him up? That's also why you edited the first part of your post - you re-read your post and realized what a ridiculous thing you said and removed it. Again, nice edit.

packs 12-14-2017 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729459)
Your post inferred that he didn't - that you were criticizing him for his point of view. If that's not the case, why did you even bring him up? That's also why you edited the first part of your post - you re-read your post and realized what a ridiculous thing you said and removed it. Again, nice edit.

Oh okay, I think I understand where the confusion lies. You had said that the issue of sexuality wasn't important to the majority of the world. I brought up the race and a candidate to show that it is an issue important enough that a candidate for Senate would make it part of his platform, only to demonstrate that it is still an issue.

conor912 12-14-2017 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729403)
Is it relevant to the article? Does the reader care?

I actually asked myself the same thing while reading it. The short to these two questions is 1) No and 2) This reader did. While not permanent to his retirement, had it not been in the article, I would have never known that an openly gay man had umpired 3 World Series', which I, personally, think is important for as many baseball fans as possible to know.

Peter_Spaeth 12-14-2017 08:46 PM

Based on my observations and interactions, anyone who thinks most of the world is now tolerant or indifferent is wrong. Yes, it's probably better than it used to be, but we're nowhere near a world or even a country where it's a non-issue.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912 (Post 1729577)
had it not been in the article, I would have never known that an openly gay man had umpired 3 World Series', which I, personally, think is important for as many baseball fans as possible to know.

I don't understand this. As a baseball fan, why do you feel it important for me (and others) to know that? :confused:

I would guess the majority of baseball fans don't give a crap, let alone think it's important.

pokerplyr80 12-14-2017 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1729585)
Based on my observations and interactions, anyone who thinks most of the world is now tolerant or indifferent is wrong. Yes, it's probably better than it used to be, but we're nowhere near a world or even a country where it's a non-issue.

Yea I have to agree. There are still plenty of racists, bigots, and ignorant people out there. An mlb umpire being openly gay shouldn't be an issue, but for many it is. And for anyone who doesn't think it is wait until an active player comes out. Especially if he's a star.

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1729595)
And for anyone who doesn't think it is wait until an active player comes out. Especially if he's a star.

You're about four decades late on that one.

pokerplyr80 12-14-2017 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729601)
You're about four decades late on that one.

I mean publicly. I was under the impression Burke's teammates knew, but the media didn't while he was playing. It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.

conor912 12-14-2017 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1729604)
It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.

Without doubt. He would be the Jackie Robinson of the gays.

I can't believe I just typed that....though I'm trademarking it right now!

vintagetoppsguy 12-14-2017 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 (Post 1729604)
I mean publicly. I was under the impression Burke's teammates knew, but the media didn't while he was playing. It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.

His teammates definitely knew (both with the Dodgers and A's), so I think the media had to know. Either way, he was open about it.

conor912 12-14-2017 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy (Post 1729607)
His teammates definitely knew (both with the Dodgers and A's), so I think the media had to know. Either way, he was open about it.

And Burke would be the Jimmy Claxton!


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