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-   -   Underappreciated Rarities (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=132361)

sreader3 01-21-2011 04:32 PM

Underappreciated Rarities
 
The rarities among the major tobacco issues (e.g., T205, T206, T207) are pretty well documented. But there are a lot of difficult cards in other prewar sets that seem to fly under the radar. I thought there would be some value in a thread where collectors of less heralded prewar issues share their knowledge about scarcities they have discovered while set building, as well as any speculation as to why the identified cards are so difficult. I am thinking along the lines of ...

Subject: E121-120 George Whitted (Brooklyn)
Reason: Trade from Pirates to Dodgers on 3/14/22, near the end of production

Subject: M101-4 Oscar Stanage (Portrait from Waist) #168
Reason: Photo swap (Todd S. can surely provide a more complete analysis!!!)

Subject: F50 Harrington's/Tharp's/Yuengling's Earl Smith #48
Reason: Chase card for ice cream redemption

Anyone else wanna play?

benchod 01-21-2011 04:55 PM

Good topic
Are you positive about the Earl Smith?

rhettyeakley 01-21-2011 05:13 PM

Only the Harrington's Smith is the "green" one. Many have speculated it is because that was the chase card but I have my doubts. Also, we know from the backs of some of these "ice cream sets" that Ruth was in fact the premium card as he got you free ice cream. I'm with you on the E121 Whitted Brooklyn--that card is pretty tough (as far as E121 Series of 120 cards are concerned), I'd love to upgrade mine but I may have to wait a while.

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e12...rooklyn120.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e121whitted120.JPG

sreader3 01-21-2011 09:40 PM

I am not positive about Smith, BUT ...

*There have been 435 Yuengling's cards graded by PSA to date, an average of 7.25 for each of the 60 cards in the set.

*At least two examples of every subject except Smith have been graded, with as many as 18 examples of some commons having been graded.

*The pop on Smith is ... ZERO.

While these pop data don't by any means conclusively prove Smith was a chase card, they are suggestive. At the very least, Smith seems to be considerably more difficult than the rest.

EDITED TO ADD: In the PSA pop reports, Smith doesn't seem as difficult with Tharp's--just Harrington's and Yuengling's. (And in the interest of full disclosure I have never owned a Smith with any of these three backs.)

scmavl 01-22-2011 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley (Post 864908)
Also, we know from the backs of some of these "ice cream sets" that Ruth was in fact the premium card as he got you free ice cream.

I'd hate to know that my grandfather traded off a Babe Ruth card for some ice cream... :eek:

Leon 01-22-2011 10:13 AM

smallest set known!
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sreader3 (Post 864893)

Subject: F50 Harrington's/Tharp's/Yuengling's Earl Smith #48
Reason: Chase card for ice cream redemption

Anyone else wanna play?

Something that is a bit strange, if I may, is that this Greiners Bread card is one of two known, from the whole series, in the hobby. Ironically the only other card is also a Harris!!! Since the redemption on back was for bread I classify it as D-Unc., not F50. I wonder what dear old Mr. Burdick would have classified it as? Also shown, since we are here, are a few odds and ends. For those interested I don't think quality control was job one in the manufacture of these little gems. best regards and happy collecting.

sreader3 01-22-2011 11:36 AM

Greiners
 
Leon,

Thanks for the pics. I have never heard of Greiners Bread before.

I think Burdick would have called it D384 or some such.

Since only two are known and both are Harris, maybe they were samples presented to Greiners and the company pulled the plug before production?

FrankWakefield 01-22-2011 02:02 PM

I'd think that the cards were actually produced. A salesman could have shown a sample of some other card, Harrington's, or something. It would be a bit of a hassle to just print up a sample. And if making a sample, I'd have thought that there would be different players on the printing sheet... so it seems odd that there would be 2 Harris samples. But maybe you're right. Great cards, Leon.

Bob Lemke 01-22-2011 02:47 PM

I'm surprised . . .
 
that the E121/120 George Whitted, Brooklyn, is not in the 2010 or 2011 Standard Catalog. I don't have access to earlier editions; was it ever listed?

rhettyeakley 01-22-2011 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke (Post 865074)
that the E121/120 George Whitted, Brooklyn, is not in the 2010 or 2011 Standard Catalog. I don't have access to earlier editions; was it ever listed?

Bob, yes it was listed in earlier editions but there was a belief for a while on this forum that it was among the cards from that set that didn't in fact exist (like the Charles O'Leary, Charles Deal, etc. that were all rightfully delisted from the set) until Bob P. produced one from his Brooklyn collection. It should be RE-included in the next SCD as it does in fact exist. It is probably the toughest card in that set--as the E121 Series of 120 isn't particularly difficult to get near completion (The Rawlings "Utl." is also extremely tough--I don't have that one yet).

-Rhett

sreader3 01-22-2011 05:43 PM

Bob,

The most recent Catalog I have is 2006. That version does not include two other E121 variations that have been discussed on this forum over the last couple of years. I will summarize here just in case you haven't already added them.

1. E121-80 Hooper (Small Projection). Rhett discovered this variation, in which due to a smaller projection image a house is visible on the left border. In the more common E121-80 Hooper (Large Projection), the house is pretty much cropped out.

2. E121-120 Torporcer (Correct Spelling). In this variation, the player's last name is spelled correctly, whereas in its counterpart the player's name is misspelled "Toporcer". Not clear to me which version is more common.

(If somebody has additional or different information, please chime in!)

sreader3 01-22-2011 05:46 PM

Frank,

Your points are well taken. I'd be interested in hearing other theories.

Scot

edhans 01-23-2011 11:24 AM

Re: Underappreciated Rarities
 
Leon,
The other known Greiner's is a Traynor.

Leon 01-23-2011 11:41 AM

then....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by edhans (Post 865369)
Leon,
The other known Greiner's is a Traynor.

Hi Ed
Then I stand corrected. I could have sworn the other owner told me it was the same player, but maybe not. regards

Eggoman 04-23-2011 02:35 PM

I have Greiner's Bread cards of McGraw and Speaker, too. See PSA's Pop Report. I had a chance at a Near set years ago, but we couldn't agree on price because we couldn't find the cards in a guide!

bcbgcbrcb 04-23-2011 02:57 PM

I would have to nominate all items in my collection........

Cat 04-23-2011 03:51 PM

It looks like it is a left/right shift and a croping/projection issue. Although you can see the house on the left you lose some image on the right. These are both series 80.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6127/hoopery.jpg

FrankWakefield 04-23-2011 05:18 PM

Thanks for posting those two, Cat.

Brian Van Horn 04-24-2011 12:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
.

ls7plus 04-24-2011 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreader3 (Post 864893)
The rarities among the major tobacco issues (e.g., T205, T206, T207) are pretty well documented. But there are a lot of difficult cards in other prewar sets that seem to fly under the radar. I thought there would be some value in a thread where collectors of less heralded prewar issues share their knowledge about scarcities they have discovered while set building, as well as any speculation as to why the identified cards are so difficult. I am thinking along the lines of ...

Anyone else wanna play?

1939 Salutations Exhibit Gehrig--almost certainly pulled after just a few month's issuance after his fatal illness was announced in May, 1939. The Exhibit Supply Company would not have wanted to be seen as attempting to profit from the misfortune of a doomed man.

Larry

Leon 04-24-2011 01:01 AM

would love to see them...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eggoman (Post 888969)
I have Greiner's Bread cards of McGraw and Speaker, too. See PSA's Pop Report. I had a chance at a Near set years ago, but we couldn't agree on price because we couldn't find the cards in a guide!

Since I have only heard of a few in total, before these, I would love to see scans to compare any printing differences. No doubt most rare card sets will have more cards turn up as time goes by. It could make the things that don't have "finds" of them even more valuable. I guess these other Greiner Bread cards aren't on the registry as I don't seem them listed. I don't have a membership to see the pop report. That's pretty neat there was/is a near set. I wonder when/if it will come out of the wood work? regards

Exhibitman 04-24-2011 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls7plus (Post 889119)
1939 Salutations Exhibit Gehrig--almost certainly pulled after just a few month's issuance after his fatal illness was announced in May, 1939. The Exhibit Supply Company would not have wanted to be seen as attempting to profit from the misfortune of a doomed man.

Larry

Gehrig is difficult; Rizzo is darn near impossible. Kreevich wasn't a picnic either

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...0%20090002.jpg

Other unsung heroes:

Silhouette BG PC Back Exhibits

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...e/Hartnett.jpg

Coupon back 1927 Exhibits

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...pon%20back.jpg

Exhibit advertising sample cards

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...n%20sample.jpg

fkw 04-24-2011 06:31 PM

A card that I would call very underrated...

the 1925 Holland Ice Cream #16 Roger Peckinpaugh. I "discovered" it back in 1999 (before that the checklist always had #16 as "unknown")
As far as I know there is still only 1 card known. Its in the G/VG range (see below). I sold it about 8 years ago for $3K, yet the SCD has always listed it at $2500 NRMT.
Why so low, when a similar extremely shortprinted (also 1 known) chase card from another Canadian set, the V117 Maple Crispette #15 Stengel is $18K NRMT.

http://centuryoldcards.com/images/19...eckinpaugh.jpg
Only known #16 Peckinpaugh

ValKehl 04-24-2011 10:02 PM

Hi Frank,

Thanks for reminding me of my biggest card-collecting regret - not pulling the trigger to buy the Holland Peckinpaugh card from you when I had the opportunity! :(
Best,
Val

ls7plus 04-24-2011 10:08 PM

[quote=Exhibitman;889238]Gehrig is difficult; Rizzo is darn near impossible. Kreevich wasn't a picnic either

Ah, but Gehrig is Gehrig, while Rizzo is still Rizzo. The difference in perspective between a set collector and a hall-of-famer collector! Always appreciate hearing from Adam on Exhibits--very interesting cards. Adam, I am definitely waiting on the book--I guarantee I am a buyer!

Best wishes,

Larry

100backstroke 04-25-2011 10:27 AM

under valued/appreciated
 
I have been looking a long time for 1931 W502's - no go.

The 1928 W502's, yes - but the 1931's - ouch tough

Brian Van Horn 04-25-2011 10:47 PM

2 Attachment(s)
100backstroke,

I'll admit the 1931 W502s are harder to come by, but they are out there. Here are recent pickups from the set for viewing only:

fkw 04-25-2011 11:55 PM

I agree on the 1931 W502's, very scarce overall, but Ive seen them a few times in larger groups on eBay, but not in a while.

PS. Funny how PSA puts "handcut" on what looks like obviously machine cut cards, just because they have a "W" name. Never seen a strip of them myself let alone a handcut one, ....Id think they are most likely a candy or ice cream issue like the related issues from a couple years earlier.

birdman42 04-26-2011 09:01 AM

'31 W502s?
 
How do you tell the difference between the '28 and the '31 W502s?

Bill

E93 04-26-2011 11:37 AM

The ones I am aware of are not yet in my collection, so I cannot say.:p
JimB

HRBAKER 04-26-2011 11:46 AM

So are these '31 W502s or W-UNC?
 
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...UncSimmons.jpghttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...1WUNCterry.jpg

Brian Van Horn 04-26-2011 12:07 PM

In my opinion, W502. I think the reason they were W-Unc is that when they were originally graded they couldn't be assigned to the W502s because the numbers for the 1928 set had different players in the first twenty cards.


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