Triple Crown!!
 

Congrats to Cabrera, didn't think I'd ever see it

Me either, but I did. Literally!

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...tripcrn001.jpg

Nice Jeff

Al mvp
 

I was listening to mike and mike this morning, and tim kurkjian said he did not know who he was going to vote for! He said it would be the closest race maybe in history! How in the world can a triple crown winner not be a lock? Especially when he carries his team to the postseason.

Because everyone loves a hot trout.

I totally agree that trout has had a great year, but beating out a triple crown winner? I don't get it....

I'm an Angels fan and love Mike Trout, but winning the Triple Crown is beyond doubt MVP worthy. I believe the media does not like Cabrera because he is quiet and does not have a squeaky clean image(He's been arrested a few times over the past few years for doing stupid things like abusing alcohol and spousal issues). He allegedly has political leanings(in his home country of Venezuela) that we Americans are supposed to frown upon.

Josh Hamilton has had his problems too, but for some reason, media outlets gloss over his faults more willingly. I hate him because he plays for the Rangers and they are in the same division.

Generally, the media has been ignoring how good he is for awhile. If you ask who the average fan who the big mega stars of MLB is over the past several years, Pujols, A-Rod, Jeter, Bonds, Manny...etc. Cabrera's name never comes up, but this guys always been a beast. Check out his stats from when he was with the Marlins.

I remember Arte Moreno making a run at him before he ended up in Detroit. So it is clear, even the Angels' owner knows how good he is.

Craig H.

10-15 years ago, there would be very little argument against cabrera getting the MVP. but, the evaluation of a player through the analysis of baseball statistics has evolved to the point where players with certain statistics who attain particular accolades are not worth as much, in the public eye but more so to those making decisions on the field and in management. we've seen some of this surface into these post season awards the last several seasons - felix and his 13 wins beating out price (19 wins), sabathia (21) and lester (19) in 2010 for the cy is a perfect example. in the end, it's an award given by the baseball writers and its a debate perfect for sports talk radio, internet forums, and over a glass of beer at your favorite pub. in other words, nothing really to get bent out of shape over if cabrera or trout wins the mvp - it's just a game and it's meant purely for our entertainment.

i personally think the triple crown is a great achievement and signifies a great season - but, let's keep in mind that cabrera has had similar seasons in the past, most notably in 2010 (2nd in MVP voting) when he notched 38 home runs, 126 rbis, and a .328 batting average. give the award to cabrera not simply because he won the triple crown - it's a nice achievement, but it's three variables in a multivariate equation - but because of his complete profile, which includes how much he meant to his team (let's keep things in perspective when we start saying that a triple crown automatically equates to an MVP - frank thomas hit 40 home runs, drove in 134 rbis, and hit .349 in 1996 and finished 8th in MVP voting - had he won the triple crown then (those numbers are similar to miguel's), would he automatically be the MVP?).

i think cabrera will win the award because the tigers made the playoffs and the angels didnt. the writers have been fairly consistent about this criteria, only diverging when a player puts up really crazy numbers (e.g. ARod's ranger season, dawson's cubs season).

Briefly, a lot of players have had better years than Cabrera and never won the Triple Crown.

If you can't see beyond baseball card #s, then, yes, Cabrera had the best year in the league. The Triple Crown is a great story and notable accomplishment, but that's not the true measure of a hitter's value, to say nothing of their total value to winning.

And the argument about Cabrera taking his team to the playoffs as a reason to vote for him over Trout shouldn't carry weight considering what the Angels have done since Trout joined the team in late April and what division the Tigers play in.

My prediction is Cabrera winning in a close race, but I think the voters will have gotten it wrong. Congratulations to both of them, though, as each would be a clear winner if the other played in the National League.

If alot of players have had better years than cabrera, i can't seem to recall them. 330 batting avg, 44 hrs., and 139 rbi's, hard to imagine a better year than that....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...homafr04.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...elleal01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...odrial01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ruthba01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...ujolal01.shtml

i can go on. and you're just using three variables - does steals, hits, OBP, OPS count? mike trout had 49 steals with only 5 caught stealing - he led the league in that category - is that worth anything in your book? what about runs? trout led the league in that category by a significant margin.

cabrera had a great year, but let's not go out on a limb and start calling his year historic. you likely did not read my post above, but i stated there that his numbers this year are similar to the ones he posted just two years ago.

It actually happens quite often, just scroll through the league leaders over the years. It happened seemingly throughout the career of Babe Ruth. His career average and average annual HR and RBI numbers exceeds that of Cabrera's 2012 year, and he never won it. The fact that Bonds didn't win the Triple Crown during the early 2000's, the greatest and most complete offensive seasons ever, shows just how highly contextual that achievement is.

I think an interesting and revealing thought experiment would be to think about whether Cabrera should be MVP if Hamilton or Granderson had gotten 45 HR's. Neither of those sluggers had the year Trout or Cabrera did, so it wouldn't rob votes away from Cabrera or Trout, and it would have the added virtue of removing the Triple Crown from Cabrera's year while not diminishing his #s.

Trout's AVG/OBP/SLG, an offensive line that better reflects value than AVG/HR/RBI, is so very, very close to Cabrera's, that his overwhelming defensive superiority and ABSOLUTELY ridiculous baserunning superiority makes him the MVP, in my judgment.

It's a true shame Cabrera didn't play in the National League: he could legitimately and rightfully win an MVP while not relying on (or achieving) such a highly contextual feat, and he could keep that dirty cheat Braun from winning an MVP.

Only looking at 90's and 2000s:
Manny Ramirez in 1999 .333/44/165
Todd Helton in 2001 .336/49/146 (2000 was off by 2hrs, .372/42/147)

There were others who were better in two of the three categories only missing the third by a slight amount (96 Mo Vaugh, 01 Luis Gonzalez, 06 Pujols)

Winning the first Triple Crown in 40 plus years has to be a lock for MVP no doubt.Trout can have the ROY he will get his MVP one day.

I can pick out 4 seasons from Albert Belle, sure the avg wasn't up to par in 2 of them, but the other numbers were insane. also two from frank thomas..

Miggy this year .330 avg 44 HR, 40 2B, 139 RBI, 109 R.

Frank Thomas 1994 ..352 avg 38 HR 34 2B 101 RBI 106 R 113 games
Albert Belle 1994 .357 avg 36 HR 35 2B 101 RBI 90 R 106 games
Albert Belle 1995. .317 avg. 50 HR, 52 2B, 126 RBI, 121 R. 143 games
Albert Belle 1996 .311 avg 48 HR 45 2B 148 RBI, 126 R
Albert Belle 1998 .328 avg 49 HR 48 2B 152 RBI 113 R
Frank Thomas 2000 ..328 avg 43 HR 44 2B 143 RBI 115 R

the '94 seasons don't quite seem to matchup, but let's not forget the strike.

Now Belle's '95 numbers in only 143 due to the strike are absolutely ridiculous..

I'm not knocking Miggy, he's got my vote. But to say that his numbers this season are nearly unheard of is silly..

I never said his numbers were unheard of, my first point in the thread was that i did not see how a triple crown winner could not get the vote for mvp.

Cabrera had better plate patience. Trout struck out/plate appearance was .249 compared to Cabrera's .158. OBP is important, but sometimes you can be helpful when you at least put the ball in play. So when your OBP is off by only 3/1000th of a point then you have to look at other stats.

Cabrera also had a PA/RBI average of .223 compared to Trout's .130. So at the plate Cabrera was more helpful to his team.

On the bases Trout is obviously better.

For defense, Cabrera is ranked number 3 on Fielding Percentage for 3rd basemen, and Trout is ranked at number 5 of Center Fielders (19 for Fielding Percentage among all Out Fielders).

So it is pretty close. I can see why the voters have to really think about it. Though I would go with Cabrera.

Given how long it's been since there's been a triple crown winner, I can completely agree..There should be no doubt. But the fact that Trout even casts even the slightest doubt, really says something about the season he had..

Miggy's got it for me. But at the same time, the triple crown is somewhat arbitrary, and in this case, kinda based on other players shortcomings.. Let's say Bautista and Encarnacion don't get hurt coming down the stretch. Or Josh Hamilton doesn't have a Pepsi hangover, then we probably aren't even having this conversation..

Let's also not forget that Miggy led the league in GIDP with 28, but then again, that stat's as circumstantial as RBI's are..

i do want to make one point very clear, even though i think cabrera should get the mvp, if i was starting a team today i would rather have trout.....

in 50 years i'll still remember miguel cabrera getting the triple crown in 2012, but trout is the mvp.

Well said.

I'm with all the stat nerds who vote for Trout as MVP, but I'm glad I got to follow Cabrera's chase at a Triple Crown. Despite its reliance on archaic #s, those are traditional #s I studied on my '87 Topps cards, and I'll no longer think "Yaz" when thinking of the Triple Crown.

Here's to hoping more refined and valuable #s find their way onto the next generation of Topps cards :D

.

For many people including myself, there has never been a triple crown in their lifetime, and probably never will again with the over specialization in pitching. Cabrera is MVP, and the fact that the Tigers made the post season and the Angels did not will not make the vote Not as close as most people think.

Didn't Dimaggio win the MVP the same year Williams won a Triple Crown?

yes, he did...

BBWAA members assigned to the National League Most Valuable Player committee are told, “There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The Angels were 6-14 before calling up Trout

Mike Thompson of the Detroit Free Press posted a neat baseball card-related cartoon referring to Cabrera...

http://www.freep.com/article/2012100...a-MLB-playoffs