The early 60s Fleer sets: High grade or bust?
 

This football forum has been quiet, too quiet. I thought I would start a thread about something that has been on my mind for a while and maybe get us talking.

It is probably just me, but what is the deal with the early 60s Fleer sets? My target grade I guess would be EX+ to EXMT. For most 60s Topps issues, it isn't terribly difficult to find raw cards for set building. I love the look of the Fleer sets (especially '63), but most of what I find are either high grade examples slabbed in PSA/SGC holders graded 7 and up or creased up cards. I guess I could build a set of the higher grade stuff, but it would cost more and I couldn't put them in binders (toploader binder probably). I like nice looking mid-grade cards. Any insight??

I feel your pain.
I got so tired of trying to find nice mid-grade '63 Fleers that I just bit the bullet and bought a set.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...psxrq0fgjm.jpg

Sweet cards! It is a surprisingly frustrating hunt. I may either buy a set like you did or build a high grade slabbed one I guess.

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I haven't noticed this myself but it's certainly possible. I put the 1963 Fleer set together raw in mid grade a few years ago. While it took some time to find all of the cards, it is definitely doable if you are patient. I probably worked on it for 4-5 years off an on before I completed it.

The other Fleer sets I purchased as complete sets so don't know how difficult they are to put together. From looking at my notes I see there were numerous raw complete sets for 1960, 1961, and 1962 that sold on ebay during the several year period I was working to acquire these so there are definitely mid grade cards out there.

It is definitely true that when you go to a show and go to dealer tables who have football binders that you will see a lot more binders of raw cards for Bowman and Topps than you will for Fleer. This might be an indication that what you are seeing is legit.

jeff

Jeff, thanks for your input. I was hoping to hear from you. I am starting to think if I am to have the '63 set (or maybe even the '62), I will be saving up and purchasing the set or at least a large partial. So far, it sounds like you guys are seeing some of what I am seeing in terms of 60s Fleer availability.

Think i got half the 63 also love the 62, just have Raiders

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Those are some great looking cards. Love the old logos!

Won a pile of 61s... a few wrong backs, very odd

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I remain interested in this set and have done a lot of looking on ebay and elsewhere the last week. I feel a little conflicted. Here's what I mean. Over in the prewar baseball world the last few months, I have been buying 1910 T212 Obaks...about 45 total. I have bought a few ungraded ones, but I have also bought several slabbed ones. I have been cracking those babies out like a fiend! I bought a nice binder from Archival Methods and have the Obaks in tobacco sized toploaders, which fit nicely into Bowman sized pages. Those tobacco cards and the variety of back slogans look awesome in those pages in that binder! My vgex-ish 1969 Topps set is 100% ungraded in a toploader binder.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, my 1965 Topps football Tall Boy set is 100% SGC graded, and I love the uniformity of it. I honestly like the slabs in the corrugated white boxes (though I have yet to find any large enough that a lid fits over them). Also, I am about 14 cards shy of completing the '66 Topps football set. It will be all graded as well, a mixture of SGC and PSA. I bought a 110 card lot (the set has 132 cards), and it was almost all graded when I got it so I am finishing it that way. Again, I like the binder methods described above, but I also don't mind the slabs and boxes.

My 1953 Topps baseball set is a compromise. The stars are slabbed, and most of the commons are ungraded. That is just ok because I can't get the set all in one place to view...

Which brings me back to 1963 Fleer football. I really want nice looking cards in my set because that white looks far better when it is gleaming, bright white and not dingy. There are actually more mid-grade ungraded cards available than I first thought when I started this thread. I have had thoughts of building this set all ungraded so I can put it in a toploader binder. I know I could build a decent little set in this manner cheaper than a graded set. But, there is a big part of me that admits to really liking the slab/corrugated box method, too. It's fun lining them up alongside each other. It seems the only thing from holding me back from just going for graded is the knowledge that it would cost more. I wrestle with that in that part of me feels dumb paying more for a card just because it is slabbed. Though in some cases, the better looking ungraded cards aren't much less expensive than the slabbed ones. I try and justify it by thinking that they all have really nice cases and good protection that way, and I do like the look in some ways. But ungraded is cool, too.

It's all about what makes us happy, I get it. I am not a registry guy; I do not need 9s and 10s to be happy. If I did this set graded, it would be made up of mainly 7s, with maybe a few higher if I got a deal.

Anyone care to persuade me one way or the other on how to approach this because I am torn!!??

Haven't you seen the newest Netflix original series, Robert?

"Raw is the New Graded"

:):):)

jeff

:)~ Good one, Jeff!

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Something to consider is that with the exception of 1961 Fleer (AFL & NFL), the Fleer sets were AFL only. As a new league, with fewer fans, it would be my guess that Fleer accordingly made fewer cards. It would in-turn make sense that still fewer survive in nice condition.

I collect signed AFL cards, and I can tell you that I come across vastly more signed 1960-1963 Topps cards than I do Fleer. My guess for that is that the NFL had established fans in those early years while the AFL was trying to build a following.

Anyway, I was able to complete a signed 1963 Fleer set in surprisingly nice shape (ExMt - NmMt) with the exception of Charles Long, which is Good at-best.