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Tell me what under valued players or cards you feel need to rise in price
Just curiously wondering what other collectors and hobby enthusiast think . I've had this conversation with a friend that's not that in to collecting . And we had very different answers . So let's here what the masses have to say
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On a serious note, I do think that a lot of the oddball cards for a lot of the better players are still a bit on the light side. As they are added to PSA Player Registries--which is happening now with Mantle--the prices will likely creep up a bit. |
The Lou Gehrig RC. Though that looks to be changing, and rapidly so.
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Collecting
I would be interested in the divergent views of your and your friend, Dustin. The "masses" here are never bashful about saying what they think :)
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underpriced
i would certainly buy up all the test issues and regionals all underpriced
anyone with money can buy a 52 mantle....they appear at auction 10 at a time every month in all grades...but how many dice games do you see or 66 punchouts if a 52 mantle 8 goes for $430k a 66 punchout mantle 8 should go for $5 million |
Food issues, regionals, test issues
While the market is easily viewed and valued through a supply and demand lens, it has puzzled me that many of the food issue, regional and test issues of many of the better known, more collected players don't sell for significantly more. While there is certainly a thinner demand base, the supply is so much smaller it still shocks me. I was saddened (that I couldn't afford it) and heartened to see the prices of the 1953 Stahl Meyer cards in a recent auction - PSA 7 Mantle selling for 30k+. Even that price seems like a bargain when you consider the likely less than a couple of dozen examples in existence and the 7 being the second highest graded - next to say the kind of numbers his 1953 card sells for.
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I haven't posted over here or introduced myself yet, though I have been reading for some time, so I'll say first by way of brief introduction that I got back into collecting a couple of years ago after a long hiatus and collect mostly ungraded baseball Hall of Famers and graded baseball HOF rookies.
I'm generally dubious of efforts to try to predict the future on these things, but there's one card that doesn't seem to get mentioned in these kinds of threads that I think should be at least part of the discussion: the 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams. I would think it has some room to grow for a few reasons. It is of top 5 player, and if I'm not mistaken is one of the few widely agreed upon pre-war rookie cards. While not exactly scarce, there are fewer graded than other major rookies (about 1000 graded between PSA and SGC, versus 2,000 for Mantle and 4,000 for Aaron, for example). It is a nice picture and a clean looking, classic card. Yet it can be had right now for the same or less than an equivalent Aaron and 1/4 of the price of a 1951 Mantle for mid-grade examples, with the discrepancy growing in higher grades. And it hasn't yet seen the run-ups in price that other major rookies experienced in the last couple of years. That seems to me to create potential for growth as more people turn to acquiring rookie cards of the very best players, which seems to be a current trend. |
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Welcome, Michael |
Hey welcome sinker slider ! And bishop so far not to many bashful members . Ok my number one under valued card is 1951 bowman willie mays . When you see what the mantle sells for it can only be a matter of time before it starts to even out . And there are fewer graded examples of the mays .
My friends number one is the Johnny bench rookie . As seen in the last couple years with the Nolan Ryan rookie . He feel it will and has to follow . I think most vintage football is rediculiusly low and even some 80s stuff can grow some . 1984 topps football has to many names and key rookies . To be chalked up as 80s trash . Well there is the bread and meat of what I have . There are some other cards I have in mind . But I really want to see what other collector have in mind . I love all the regional/oddball love I'm seeing |
no on oddball
i say no on oddball as many (not all) are not very attractive ex: post cereal and were not part of the massees collecting experience whereas topps base cards were. jmo
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Disclaimer - I am very partial to Lefty - but I think that the '65 Steve Carlton is under valued. He has a career on par with Ryan and Seaver, but their RC's go for substantially more (I know that Seaver is a high #, but surprised). Carlton's cards go cheap all the way through - a nice graded '70 can be had for about the price of a pizza. I know that he was never super friendly with the media and didn't have the benefit of the run up at the time of the late '80's boom like Ryan did, but I think that he is the great pitcher that history is forgetting.
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It may just be my Dodger bias, but I'm always surprised at how cheap Duke Snider is. As for non-Dodgers, maybe Brock, Mathews, Kiner, Mize, and Spahn.
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Frank Robinson.
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I will add this about Robinson. For the longest time he was fourth on the all time home run list. ROY, two time MVP, one in each league including the 1966 Triple Crown and the first black manager in baseball. I just feel his cards are undervalued as compared to his contemporaries.
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Samsdaddy just dropped a bomb ! Nice see I like this pick because sometime when trying to determine something like this people use there hearts .
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I agree with MattyC on the 25 Gehrig, and also feel the 55 Koufax is undervalued, especially with the recent run up on the 55 Clemente.
Despite the recent rise I still feel the 51 Bowman Mantle will continue to climb. |
Agree with Frank Robinson, who I think is an inner circle Hall of Famer. Another inner circle HoFer whose cards are much cheaper than they should be is Stan Musial. Particularly his 1959 - 1963 Topps cards. For a guy of his stature, those cards are very reasonable.
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I think key o pee chee baseball rookies like ryan, schmidt, brett, yount etc are greatly undervalued compared to the regular topps version. They are much more rare. I also think that some key error/variations are seriously undervalued like the Herrera and the nnof frank thomas. Especially the thomas. You have a popular hof player with a seriously rare rookie card. Some think between 2-400 examples and few of those are in high grade. Just my thoughts.
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Granted, they did have some other excellent players including a guy named Brooks Robinson but it wasn't until Frank was traded to the Orioles, after the Reds thought he was an old 31 year old player, that the Orioles stepped it up and were the team to beat in the AL for several years after. |
From what I think of baseball's "Greatest Generation," the four great sluggers who also hit for average were Mantle, Mays, Aaron, and Robinson. Here are their slash lines, WS wins/appearances, and MVPs--
Mantle - 298/421/557 + 7/12 WS + 3 MVP Mays - 302/384/557 + 1/4 WS + 2 MVP Aaron - 305/374/555 + 1/2 WS + 1 MVP Robinson - 294/389/537 + 2/5 WS + 2 MVP Over the course of a single game or even seven-game series, these lines are all essentially identical in terms of expected performance (e.g., if you were on FanDuel, you wouldn't care which player you got). Of course, Aaron had the HR record; Mays had the glove, speed, and flair; and Mantle was a Yankee and perennial WS fixture. But most importantly, from a card value perspective, I've never met a single person whose favorite player was Frank Robinson, whereas I've met many who would say Mantle, Mays, or Aaron. |
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Time and time again so many of you declare that because of a given player's statistics, awards, rings, and dominance, their baseball cards and collectibles should be priced accordingly. I'm here to tell ya that's not what it's all about.
Yes, the star players that are the most intensely collected all have statistics and awards that set them apart from many, though often not all the super stars. Who the man played for, his personality and his intermingling with the fans will play a dramatic part in how he is perceived and then how intensely desirable his cards and collectibles will be. How that former player handled himself with his adoring public at the card convention autograph appearances has played a pivotal part, like it or not. Whether a former player knew it or not, or what his attitude was about the whole thing, the guy was on the stage before his public once again, and if he loved his fans, like Brooks Robinson or Mickey Mantle, there were consequences to his collectibles. If the player was an udder asshole to his adoring fans, their hearts were broken, they became EX-adoring fans, they sold their collections of that player, and they naturally did not keep their hurt and pain all to themselves. Some players I believe hurt the values of their collectibles because they were so mercenary about wanting better money for their cards (Stan Musial), or because they rarely did any autograph shows at all. I'm probably wrong about the latter, yet when you refuse to see your fans, they'll just start to thing you really don't like them and they'll either resent you for it, or just quit caring about you. Just my nickel pack's worth, buddies.:D ---Brian Powell |
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Now, the Post Cereal were readily available, too. Just go to the grocery store, and there they all were. You could even look at the back of the boxes to select the box that had the most cards of players you wanted. It was so easy---and that's exactly the point where the "easiness" ceased. Now came the multitude of problems and complications. The end result 50+ years later? Just look at the PSA or SGC pop reports at the numbers of specimens graded Near Mint/Mint or better. Not to be a spoiler, but for such a grandiose promotion that staggers the imagination, the numbers don't lie and they speak volumes. As far as the appearance of the Post Cereal gems, I know referring to them as "gems" speaks for itself, but I was immensely attracted to the Post. For a card having a photo, player name, write-up, etc. Post did a terrific job. If you do not think so, you're not alone I'm sure. However, there are a bunch of us who absolutely love the Post Cereal. We've discovered some of the old TV commercials they ran to promote them, which Topps never had. Hey, in my mind then as a kid, with those great commercials, Post were "THE MOST". Gotta go. Just had to take a few minutes and disagree with your taste in cards, and speak up for the Post. Then again, keep disliking them, Mintacular; less competition for me!:D Take care. ---Brian Powell |
Relative to their onfield greatness, Mays and Musial cards are dirt cheap. Most Willies cost a fraction of the corresponding Mantle, for example. But the factors that play into that are not likely to change.
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@ poker if that was the 100% truth then Whitey fords card would be ridiculous . Which I also feel his 1951 Bowman card sell way to low .
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Most undervalued card in my opinion? '57 Bakep Error
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Mantle is a unique case as his popularity is far greater than his career stats. I was just saying the titles make a big difference and that's what people remember. Would Jordan still be viewed as the greatest without 6 titles? And just because Pippen also has 6 rings doesn't mean his cards should be anywhere close in value. |
I expect the very long term trend to be for Aaron to move up and Mantle to move down. When nobody is left who ever saw Mantle play, witnessed the Yankees as a dynasty, or even met Mantle at a show, it's hard to imagine what will prop him up as having by far the most expensive cards of the 50s and 60s. Meanwhile, Aaron has the (unofficial) record.
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Maybe. But at some point the question "Why Mantle?" can only be answered with "Because he's the most valuable." And then the emperor has no clothes.
I suspect now a ton of today's buyers either saw him play or grew up on great stories from parents or grandparents who saw him play. The rest are speculators who rely on this first group for their bubbles not to burst. |
@pokerply80 no doubt mantle was the best player on the team . ( I never seen him play ) ford was the best pitcher and ace of the staff and served in the Korean War in prime years . I think the price of his cards drive his infamy with in the hobby . I'm 34 years old I grew up only reading the becket price guide and seeing all his card leading the way . That was the only reason I wanted them at the time . There were no notable Stan Musial , frank robinsons . It became the chase for something unattainable . I do see mantle cards slowing down or going the other way with the next gerations .
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I'm 35 and growing up the 52 Mantle was the ultimate dream card. I was a big baseball fan and new some history, but as for the cards I just knew his were the most valuable and didn't question why. Whatever the reason, or reasons, it has been the case for quite a while and don't see it changing. I agree with peter's statement that this belief will be passed down to future collectors, with or without valid reasons.
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Duende or whatever else you want to call it goes a long way. Look at the Namath rookie -- most experts would not rank him among the 100 best players ever.
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My opinion is, of course, influenced by what has been my collecting and research focus over the years, but I believe that the 1947-1949 Jackie Robinson Bond Bread set is tremendously undervalued. It's amazing to me that Jackie's true rookie card (Portrait card) can be had for less than $2,000 in NRMT shape.
I believe the reason why it's undervalued has to do with the misguided belief that the card was a regional release. However, recent findings have proven that to not be the case, and the set should no longer be deemed regional IMO. |
Hey Shaun,
Your thread response regarding the rare Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set has been on my mind off and on for days. I want to sympathize with you over your frustration and chagrin that your favorite Jackie Robinson set has not zoomed in value as you believe in your guts it should have. The set has a lot going for it. For a set composed of black 'n white pictures devoted to one player, it is highly significant that the player is Jackie Robinson, and the years of issue were his rookie year, and a few thereafter. You express the feeling that the set is "sub-par" because of its regional nature. I well remember you revealing some of your research on the subject of the distribution area; to wit, they may have been offered not only in the predominantly Black-American community in Brooklyn near their Bond Bakery, but other areas of the country with a heavy Black-American population where Bond bakery items were sold. Historically, this set has always been very rare and extremely hard to get, Shaun. I know for a fact it intrigued serious collectors in a big way in the 70s and 80s when our hobby was becoming a mammoth. But you very well know this. What your beliefs may not have embraced is the faulty reasoning that because a card is not mainstream, it is less appealing, less popular, less desirable, and therefore less valuable. Some regionals are immensely desirable. Some are not. Some are immensely popular, well-documented and well-covered in hobby literature (and hobby chat forums) and thus well-known. Others are seemingly as well-hidden in a wilderness as an American sniper. A vast majority of post-war collectors go for the mainstream; tis so true. The few who take a different brook, and wind up loving the beauty and extreme challenge of regional cards are equally fulfilled, to a point. Their collecting of regionals is frequently unfulfilled because those cards are so dreadfully difficult to track down---EVEN WITH MAJOR AUCTION HOUSE OFFERINGS AND EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The regional collectors will often not talk much about their prizes, nor write about them. It took me a long time to figure out a prime reason why after decades of frustration over the fact the tough regionals were not adequately covered in Sports Collectors Digest during its heyday. It requires of lot of time and effort to write a good article about a difficult set such as a regional. One of the prime factors is whether or not you can locate a collector, former collector, dealer, or individual who was a part of the original promotion that was offering the free prizes to goose sales of their product. Back in the day they were issued, it wasn't that big a deal. Nobody paid much attention to any of it. Even some pioneer collectors did not retain much knowledge of the original promotion, and all the ins and outs us regional collectors would dream of knowing. So, to find someone who knows something interesting and pertinent about a given set, AND IS WILLING TO SING LIKE A BIRD ABOUT ALL THAT THEY KNOW, is as rare as the cards themselves. Then again, we're at 2015, most of the people and kids who collected the free prizes from what I term, "THE GOLDEN QUARTER CENTURY 1947 - 1971" are quickly becoming a part of The Paul Revere Foundation seen in the classic Bugs Bunny cartoon, "HOT CROSS BUNNY", whose motto is "Hardly a Man is Now Alive". I'm 61, started collecting in '61, and my earliest baseball card memories involves the Post Cereal. The ten-year-old kid in '47-'50 who collected those Bond Bread Jackies is now 75-78 years old. Most men die before then, even if they're living a little longer. Remember when I said that to find someone who has great knowledge of the Bond cards and something great to share may be rarer than the cards themselves? A key reason for not sharing is because they're trying to collect the cards as well, and if they share what they know, the cards will increase in popularity, and zoom in price more than they are, and it will become nigh unto impossible for them to get those Bond Bread Jackie Robinsons. Rob Lifson speaks very highly of them, as you probably know. Most collectors are still pretty unaware of the set. They're also so obsessed with rookie cards, and cards of the major stars. They like and respect Jackie Robinson, but would just assume get their Robinson fix from a Topps or even a Leaf. The Bonds have it all over a Leaf in eye appeal. Again, collectors dig rarity, and a superb story. Shaun, keep building the Bond story, and present it to the hobby. I'm rootin' for you. As a parting shot, a regional is a rare gem worth a havin', if it's beautiful. Think of Baltimore News Babe Ruth, Washington Times Ty Cobb, Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle, Wilson Franks Ted Williams, Bell Brand Sandy Koufax, Mother's Cookies Henry Aaron and a few other cards made much later that I don't have, still want, but don't wish to divulge---because I still feel I have a chance at them!;) Kind regards, Brian Powell |
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I still think the Bowman 1951 Mays are way undervalued that have ok centering....there is no magical 1952 topps Mays to deal with like the 1951 mantle has to deal with..and the 1952 Topps Mays are taking off...I think the 1951 Mays Bowman grade for grade will get closer to their 1952 Topps counterparts at a surprising level....as we know 1951 Mantles are still very valuable but I just don't see the price jump with them compared to the magical Mantle 1952 Topps counterparts.
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I love the obscure or esoteric cards myself. |
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Brian,
Thank you for your post. I've read it 2-3 times, and I can't help but acknowledge how well-thought-out and accurate it was. You raise many good points in it - and I think you hit a homerun in describing what could be said is the gift and curse of regional sets. For many of us collectors, the thrill is in the chase... and when that chase goes on for years just to find a single example of the card, it is easy to give up. My quest took 4+ years, and there were most certainly moments when I was ready to call it quits... what kept me going was researching the set as much as possible. Anyhow, thank you for the encouraging words regarding the pursuit of filling in all the blanks of the Bond Bread story. I am almost there, and net54 has certainly be beyond helpful in terms of the support and connecting with other collectors who have also done research. I have a few details left to uncover, and I am hoping that a few leads that I have uncovered may soon fill in those missing pieces. While work, family, and school have made it difficult to find the time needed to complete my article, I am more determined than ever to finish what I've started and help the hobby come to be more acquainted with the set. Thanks again for your response Brian!! Best, Shaun Quote:
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I know we'll all be dead, but I'm convinced that even hundreds of years from now, after all modern records have been broken, one name will be remembered as the most important (and even collectible?!) in the history of baseball: Jackie Robinson. So I do think this Bond Bread set will get its due, just may take a while.
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The '56 Topps Mantle is one that (fortunately) I held on to from childhood. Traded everything I carried into a shop for it one day along about 1990. Worth it. Also only about a VG card, but I wouldn't trade the memory for anything. |
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As far as the bond bread I've noticed most collector have no idea about cards like this . Even some collector that would describe them self as hardcore . They don't even know the story of 1952 mantle harbor dump . I alway confused when I meet someone that says they collect cards and they really don't know much about it . On that note it's hard for me to agree 100% on the notion that it will increase in value . It has to be wanted by all levels of collectors . While most to all the guys here I'm sure would love to have at least one of those bond bread cards . The average collector doesn't know they exist . Whitey Ford will see an increase in his stuff but not his autographs because there everywhere . The 60s pop up cards in good condition seem like they have room to grow because I always see pop examples and really tattered looking cards . |
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