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Angyale 11-16-2017 01:15 PM

German (?) Football Postcard Mystery
 
6 Attachment(s)
I was wondering if anyone can help me ID the following group of postcards. They are from Germany and were advertised as being from around 1910. I think they may date to WWI. Could these be US POWs or an exhibition either before or after the War? The one titled Benning Line is a photo with a blank back and may be unrelated but was part of the same group. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks indvanced.

Eric

judsonhamlin 11-16-2017 08:32 PM

My guess is that they date to post-Armistice so 1919 or thereabouts. Given the numbers of AEF personnel captured by Germany and the general POW conditions by 1918, I would rule out that possibility. The Benning Line card might be a reference to Fort Benning which was founded in early 1918 as a basic training camp for troops being sent to France. Also, Coblenz am Rhine was in the U.S. Occupation zone from early 1919 until the last few thousand troops left in 1923

jefferyepayne 11-17-2017 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin (Post 1720886)
My guess is that they date to post-Armistice so 1919 or thereabouts. Given the numbers of AEF personnel captured by Germany and the general POW conditions by 1918, I would rule out that possibility. The Benning Line card might be a reference to Fort Benning which was founded in early 1918 as a basic training camp for troops being sent to France. Also, Coblenz am Rhine was in the U.S. Occupation zone from early 1919 until the last few thousand troops left in 1923

Great info! Many service teams stayed together and played together after 1918 and would agree it is likely these are from post-Armistice.

jeff

Angyale 11-17-2017 08:39 PM

Thanks!
 
Thanks for the info guys. I did have another collector very knowledgeable with football let me know offline that the jacket and helmets suggest the photos could be from around 1910. That makes a little more sense as I would guess the sentiment toward the US in Germany after WW1 might not be as conducive to them wanting to make and sell American football postcards.

Eric

judsonhamlin 11-18-2017 09:57 AM

There were no U.S. troops in Europe before WW1 and, in fact, our army was fairly small - third world nation sized - until 1917. If the equipment predates 1918 (and I'm no expert on that) then they would be hand-me-downs or just old. The attitude towards our occupying forces actually wasn't too bad. To the Germans, we were better than the French, and fraternization wasn't unusual.

jefferyepayne 11-19-2017 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin (Post 1721365)
There were no U.S. troops in Europe before WW1 and, in fact, our army was fairly small - third world nation sized - until 1917. If the equipment predates 1918 (and I'm no expert on that) then they would be hand-me-downs or just old. The attitude towards our occupying forces actually wasn't too bad. To the Germans, we were better than the French, and fraternization wasn't unusual.

+1

jeff

Hot Springs Bathers 11-20-2017 07:50 PM

My guess would be post-war exhibitions or postcards taken over by a soldier as it appears the stamp on the back may have been applied by a seller at a book shop?

POWs would certainly have not had any equipment. Also just as our first soldiers were taken as POWs the great flu epidemic hit the camps and survival was of the utmost importance. Thankfully we were only in the war for a short time.

pariah1107 11-21-2017 08:25 PM

I tend to agree with all of the above posts. I was very intrigued by these photos as the photographer had been on the sidelines before, and obviously knew how to capture a game. My first impression was this was not an amateur, and a person very familiar with American football.

Here's what I've found with just some cursory examination; "Linstedt and Zimmerman; Coblenz am Rhine, Kalsein-Augusta-Ring Nr. 3". American photographer Francis John Dyer (1864-1924) was associated with "Linstedt and Zimmerman", and seems to have made quite a few postcards connected to the German printers.

Francis John Dyer was in Europe during World War I as many of his photos are of the subject. Not sure how long, or if he stayed after the war, but I agree with a lot of the assessments above that it is post WW1-1924. There is another Christmas tree photo from Lindstedt and Zimmerman ca. 1922 that is the first image on a search for the name. Below is the link to the Francis John Dyer collection at UC Berkeley. They may even be able to confirm it.

In the link it indicates Francis John Dyer was a US consul correspondent (March 1915-?), Dyer was in Swansea, Wales, later Tegucigalpa, Honduras, Nogales Mexico, and finally "Coblentz, Germany". Hope this was helpful, happy collecting!

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark...c/entire_text/

pariah1107 11-22-2017 06:53 PM

Eric, was my information not satisfactory? Ask anyone familiar with my work, I'm a dogged researcher, but if on the wrong track please let me know.

Angyale 11-22-2017 09:20 PM

Thanks Ty!
 
That was way more info than I expected anyone to dig up and post here!

Eric


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