Hall of fame vote???
 

Heres a list a a bunch of very good players some hofers some not. Does the top player have hof numbers looking at these numbers?

260 HR, 358 sb, 310 ave, 377 obp, 5 gold gloves - ????


282 HR, 344 sb, 285 ave, 344 obp, 9 gold gloves - sanberg

242 HR, 196 sb, 296 ave, 376 obp, 2 gold gloves- david wright

210 HR, 474 sb, 300 ave, 371 obp, 10 gold gloves -roberto Alomar

297 HR, 1406 sb, 279ave, 401 obp, 1 gold glove - Henderson

189 HR, 379 sb, 295 ave, 371 obp, 2 gold gloves, 1 mvp - larkin

235 HR, 405 sb, 284 ave, 352 obp, - Jonny Damon

317 HR, 201sb, 305 ave, 369 obp, 1gold glove, 1 MVP - g brett

287 HR, 147 sb, 297 ave, 381 obp, 4 gold gloves- bernie williams

IMO, any 5 time WS champion who finished in the top 6 all time of a major offensive category and appeared to be as good of a person off the field as he was a player on the field should be in the HOF....a better poll question might have been should a player with these stats be a unanimous selection or not in their first year of eligibility?

I believe this player is over rated. Doesn't mean he wasn't good, just gets more hype than he deserves. That said not everything comes down to the stats you mentioned. You could compare Ozzie Smith or Johnny Bench with those stats and they would appear to fall short. I am not trying to give it away but his postseason stats seem to be the selling point with your "mystery" player. That one month of play apparently has more significance to some people than the previous 6 months.

In any case if it took Larkin 3 years then I don't believe this person should go any quicker, but he will because of the publicity around him.

what position does he play?

Ss

We are talking about Jeter.

It should be noted that you can 'cherry pick' and show certain statistics, while not showing others (post-season stats for instance) and create your own mystery.

You could include Clemente's stats without the 3,000 hits and probably get the same results.

Some players transcend their raw stats.

In many cases their impact on the game is much more difficult to measure, but may be more accurate than any other Hall-of-Fame monitor.

FYI - this is all my humble opinion.

I did not vote because the presented statistics are likely to result in the afore-mentioned inaccuracy. .


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If we are talking about Jeter it should be noted that he has 5 gold gloves not 1.

I would not consider comparing HR for any player who has fewer than 500 HR as that is not a stat that has much meaning for such players.

I never realized how close Roberto Alomar and Johnny Damon are statistically before, never even thought to look at them together.

Not the biggest Jeter fan but if Rizzuto is somehow in the HOF, Jeter should get 100% of the vote on the first ballot.


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very close to sandberg and larkin who are in. if its jeter then look at his post season stats/wins. he is in no question.

those stats for a SS are very good and comparable to SS in the HOF presently but for a couple of upper tier all-time players.

I agree with the rizzuto comment as well. rizzuto made that team go for those championships. at least that's what they said when he and pee wee reese were enshrined.

What was the reason for ruining the OPs thread? I figured it was Jeter and was still able to respond accordingly without ruining it for those that wanted to base if off the given stats. I agree the stats are being cherry picked and mentioned as much in my response as well. If you believe there would need to be more stats you can just vote for that as that was an option without ruining the game/conversation for the OP.

Well, now the info is out there, it makes it tougher.

I voted my initial reaction, which is that there wasn't enough info.

I like to look at players in the context of their time, and the players around them. Not having that context makes it much harder.

And missing info can tell a lot about a player.
Did he put those numbers up over 10 years or 20?
How does he compare to other players at the same position during the same time?
And the stuff all the stats guys hate, what sort of a player was he for the intangibles.
Used to be really good traditional stats would almost guarantee getting in like 400 HR.
Kingman didn't make it, for plenty of reasons.
Dwight Evans fell short of 400 and also didn't make it in, although I like to think he'd have squeaked in eventually if not for the insanely strong group that all retired a couple years after he did.


So if it's Jeter we're talking about, Then I'd say yes.
3400+ hits some would consider a longevity stat. Sure, but that also means the player was above average for a long time. And was above average enough and respected enough to keep being signed and played as a primary starter for that entire time. That's not as easy as it might seem. I used to set aside cards of non- star players I figured had a chance, anyone with a few years in, and averaging 150 Hits + a year. Hardly any of them managed it. (the same goes for 400HR, that's an average of 20 a year for 20 years. also not so easy)
Yes, there was some hype. Some deserved, some maybe less deserved. And there's a certain NY effect that's hard to deny. (And Boston too I must admit)
But I think Jeter was one of those players that made everyone on the team better. That's a pretty uncommon thing. Arod for all the flashy numbers I'd put down as the opposite, he held back every team he was on.

He played in a stretch where there were a number of great or potentially great shortstops. Jeter, Arod, Garciaparra, Tejada, probably a couple others. Arod moved to third, Nomar faded badly after a wrist injury, Tejada lasted a while, but just wasn't quite as good and didn't last quite as long. I might not want to admit it, but Jeter was probably the best shortstop overall. Yes, others had better years, but not as many.

As a Boston fan I really wanted to dislike Jeter. But he made it really difficult if not impossible. He always carried himself like a champion. One really telling thing for me was when he was asked about being constantly booed at Fenway. He said it was an honor because the fans were like NY fans, mostly knowledgeable and very into the game. And they only got after the really good players that way so the more trouble they gave him the more he knew he was doing well and wanted to do better. Pretty amazing.

Steve B

i was hoping to get more votes and comments but hopefully there will be more over the next few days. Its too bad the player had to be outed i was hoping for more of a blind vote.

The reason for this poll wasnt about the hof, imo he should get into the HOF (we all know he will) but rather how the unnamed player numbers are so similar to others, who were very good but not elite.

So many fans of the team he plaid for describe him as one of the greatest players ever comparing him to all time grates. I have so many arguments with people telling me he was better than mantle or berra, or A rod or rickey henderson or many other players through out baseball history.

BUT once you remove his name and look at the numbers they are still very good, but not in the category hes usually placed in by certain fans. The player put up good numbers, but people get cough up in his popularity for whatever reason. maybe cause im from NYC i get all these crazy conversations. even on the radio callers say the guy needs a statue next to babe ruth, lol

before the player was outed there were 16 votes, 9 to be in HOF and 7 either werent sure yet, needed more info or just a no vote. But i im sure if i posted his name those results would be different.

Andy asked, "What was the reason for ruining the OPs thread?" ill tell u andy, some people just love this guy and feel the need to defend his very good numbers for some reason. i didnt post "bad numbers"

Baseball is a team sport - one player dosnt win a world series.

ted williams, barry bonds, ty cobb, banks, ken griffey jr, gwynn etc etc all never won a WS and its not a knock against them.

David Cone won 5 ws, paul oneil won 5 ws, louis sojo won 5 ws, Darryl straberry won 4, Pablo Sandoval won 3, i can go on. but that dosnt make the player better than what he was.

He was a good player, who was on a great team and he should and will go into the HOF - BUT - IMO he wasnt even even the best player on the team let alone best in the MLB.

the poll and the comparative players posted simply show how close each one is to each other.

Guys like ruth, bonds, arod, mantle, etc were not posted. cause those numbers arent even close.

My apologies to all I offended...that was never my intent.

-Raymond

Voted on line 4 after looking at the original post. I did not decipher the player in question, and although the stats presented were pretty juicy I would have wanted the numbers on hits and rbi's to finalize an opinion. That said, if 3,465 was listed as a lifetime hits total he becomes a mortal lock. This coming, post outing of the subject, from a lifelong Yankee hater who has as one of his most memorable baseball moments walking home from grammar school on a lovely early fall day and hearing the call of Mazeroski's series winning home run over a transistor radio.

interesting results so far