91 Topps Variations
 

In my opinion 1991 was the craziest year in regards to variations and compound variations.

Here are some stat box back variations I found in a cello box. I even saw one through a pack so I left it unopened. The layout is what you would find on the back of a manager card.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...psvoolqpfl.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps4m96sqqi.jpg

Everyone knows about the Drabek and Hoiles white border variation but how about this Smoltz orange border variation?

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...psubptptye.jpg

Here's the Drabek and Hoiles in case you weren't aware

Bold 40th Logo & Non-Bold

Im sure ive got a few and never even noticed them

1991
 

Agree that building or even agreeing on what might constitute a full master set of the Topps 1991 set would be a lifetime effort. Even if you were to concentrate on just the backs or fronts it would be a journey. Plus there is the Desert Shield related set

I think there is a Ventura with a pink(?) border and then the Mark Whiten card.

Plus-

backs
red ink
glows bright under UV
no reaction to UV
"glows" very dark red under UV (Actually fairly tough)

cardboard
Normal
No reaction to UV
Mild reaction to UV - possibly fiber transfer, but seems far too common

Lighter cardboard more tan than usual

Fronts-
Some clearcoat reacts to UV as greenish -haven't studied it much.


The back ink UV reaction is there to some degree in at least 85,86, 88 and 91 although none are as bright as the 91s


I have a couple of the manager back design players cards as well as a manager card with a players back design. I believe they're partial wrong backs. In other words they got the wrong reddish ink, but the correct black ink.

The single orange border is a printing flaw. One I'd collect as it's a bit unusual but not a variation. (Others might call it a variation)

Steve B

Hey Steve, thanks for popping in! As a side note, every factory set I have ever opened (approx. 20) was entirely made up of glow back (UV) cards.

Here is what he's referring to:

Glowing
 

You could paste a bunch of them all over you and then go out trick or treating with some pal shining a big black light on you at the doors, just fluorescing for your trick

Awwwww...jeez. Now I have to break out my '91 Topps again and look for the Smoltz...which reminds me of the Ventura border variations.

I thought I was close to completing my master set!
Dagnabit!!!!!!!

1991 Master
 

Sean-- can you checklist your master set ?

Somewhere around here, I have a list, but I would have to look.
My master set does NOT include the glow/no glow backs though.

I have the Drabek white border, Hoiles white border, Whiten hand over/hand not over, 2 Boyd versions, 3 different Ventura versions, the one (can't remember the name) with the "Maj League Totals" in different font on the back, and a bunch of others I can't remember right now. The only one I thought I was missing was the "flag over hand with the border" Boyd card.

I also have an uncut sheet with at least a Ventura border variation, and some other players (I think McGuire might be there too, but I can't remember).

I recently sold ALL of my complete sets except for my '91 Topps, and my '89 Fleer.

1991
 

ok, thanks, was aware of the ones you mention

I do not think I have any variations that you do not already know about.

Hmmm Al you have a way with words. :).

Hey Joe. I never knew that about the factory sets and glow back relationship. Also I have a Drabek variation that is about halfway between the 2 border variations you indicated above.

Z

There is also a Drabek left border variation that the whole card has a purple tint to it. There are so many variations with this set I threw in the towel several months ago. I have/had several unlisted variations. Not sure if I still have them or gave them away with a ton of other junk era stuff.

Does anyone have a copy of the Efrain Valdez birthdate error? There is a pic on tradingcarddb.com but I still have yet to see or hear of one confirmed.

http://www.tradingcarddb.com/ViewCar...-Efrain-Valdez

I am glad that for the most part, I don't collect print variations.

Z

1991
 

Nope. I just have the text or no text versions.

Did you see the example in the link? That is the first I have ever seen. I've long thought this to be non-existent like the corrected 1988 Fleer Garth Iorg.

Bold logos appear on A* & B* sheets

Here is a quick cut & paste of the numbers that have bold logos:

10,13,28,29,30,35,36,37,44,47,48,50,51,52,54,62,63 ,66,69,72,76,80,82,83,85,86,90,94,95,96,98,100,105 ,114,120,123,134,139,144,145,147,153,155,
62,163,164,168,170,173,175,177,178,183,186,187,188 ,190,192,193,195,
199,202,206,208,212,213,214,216,217,218,220,222,22 3,232,235,237,240,
242,244,245,247,248,249,250,252,257,262,265,267,26 8,270,271,272,276,
282,284,285,290,293,295,297,298,302,305,307,312,31 4,317,319,320,322,
324,327,328,336,343,345,350,352,357,360,362,370,37 2,373,377,378,382,
384,385,409,413,415,418,420,421,422,424,431,432,43 5,440,445,447,448,
450,452,454,461,463,468,469,470,475,476,478,479,48 0,481,482,483,485,
490,494,496,502,505,509,511,513,522,524,532,535,53 8,541,542,544,546,
547,548,552,556,558,561,563,564,565,571,574,580,58 2,583,584,587,591,
595,597,598,610,617,621,622,624,642,644,647,648,65 0,653,655,660,664,
667,671,672,675,677,682,683,686,690,695,698,709,71 0,715,716,717,718,
719,722,724,727,728,731,732,736,738,746,755,756,75 8,763,768,773,774,
781,782,783,785,788,791,792

border variations
 

Here are those border variations that were mentioned.

#385 - Mickey Tettleton - can be found with full black inner border and upper gray and yellow border. Full black border is only found on non-glow back cards, upper yellow border found only on glow back cards. Both can be found with and without bold logos on back.

#461 - Robin Ventura - can be found with full red inner border and left gray inner border. Full red border is only found on non-glow back cards, gray left border found only on glow back cards. Both can be found with and without bold logos on back.

#695 - Kevin Seitzer - Can be found with full blue inner border and top yellow/green border. Full blue border is only found on non-glow back cards, green/yellow top border only found on glow back cards. Both can be found with and without bold logos.

#724 - David Segui - Can be found with full gray inner border and right blue inner border. Full gray border is only found on non-glow back cards, right blue border only found on glow back cards. Both can be found with and without bold logos.

so there are bold and non-bold backs, glow and non-glow backs, and to make things more interesting topps sprinkled in some sheet code variations to give the set some more flavor. There are cards with both A*B* & A* sheet codes (A*B* being more difficult of the two), there are cards with E*F* & F* sheet codes (F* being more difficult of the two), #9 in the set has an F* sheet code and a second variation with NO sheet code (pictured). #124 in the set has an D* sheet code and a second variation with NO sheet code. #459 in the set (pictured) has variations with an A* sheet code, a B* sheet code, and an A*B* sheet code (A*) most tough.

Each sheet code variation also has the possibility of having glow and non-glow backs and bold and non-bold logos creating an unknown number of compound variations. To make matters more confusing card #s 155, 270, and 454 also have listed variations attached to them, so trying to figure out how many variations of each of those exist is next to impossible.

Here is a cut and paste list of card numbers in the set with sheet code variations:

5,9,13,54,63,72,76,83,87,120,123,124,153,155,170,1 77,178,190,192,193,
213,216,223,233,237,242,248,250,265,270,272,284,29 0,297,312,314,317,
345,382,384,422,440,452,454,459,463,475,478,480,48 1,509,532,538,584,
595,610,622,642,644,650,664,667,676,677,696,716,71 8,756,781,783,785

1991
 

If a black hole could exist on earth it might take the form of a Topps 1991 Master set

And if you include all the different contest card codes, it could be a double black hole

1991 Contest cards and missing in action cards
 

I still need 3 of them for a "set"

Jackson--Maybe it is like the Topps 1996 Jacome, or the Topps 2002 Pujols, or the 62 Topps Stamp of Sievers as a Senator, or the 67 Punch Outs of Campaneris, Gibson, Grote, McMillan and B Robinson, or the 68 Plaks of Peters, F Robinson, Aaron, Drysdale and Mays ( well maybe not Mays) :)

I have 3 Ventura border versions. One red, one black, and one brown. Hard to see in the pictures, but easier to see in person.

Yep. There are three versions of the border error.

The brown is due to Topps printing the red border over the gray border.

Does anyone know what type of packaging the errors/vars were in? Cellos, vending, wax, jumbo, rack, factory sets. Can they found in all of them?

I've opened plenty of all and have errors/var. throughout everything. The stat back variations for me were found specifically in jumbo cellos.

How rare are the players with managers backs and vice versa? There's been on on ebay for a while. For any hardcore 1991 Topps collectors, how may have you ever seen?

I'm curious if there are All-Star cards and checklists with switched backs as well.

fWIW, I just opened a rack box and grabbed two white frame Hoiles, some F* code variations and a couple of corrected Chamberlins. Also, a mix of missing and included stats. No Drabek, Whiten or Boyd of any kind. Typical Topps distribution.

Backs
 

Ben--It is not unusual to find wrong back or blank back cards. I am not aware of anyone check listing particular wrong backs as to type or number. Not sure if there are folks here who systematically collect and catalog them. I have seen people who are player specific collectors pick up wrong backs of such a player, but my impression is that there is not a large market for wrong backs in terms of value. Others may think differently

As a long time collector of junk era wrong backs I agree with Al there are no checklists because of the several different backs that can have the same player on the front. It depends on how the wrong back was made. The printer could have loaded the right sheets backwards or loaded the wrong sheets or a combination of both. There are up to 11 different wrong back cards possible in the 91 Topps set for each card.

Last night I was tying to find the Oil Can Boyd I got as part of a group of sets, including a hand collated 91 Topps. I saw that black tip Boyd go for over $200 on ebay and seeing the clear pic was a big help.

Looking over the set with the card backs up, for at least the fifth time, since I found an Oscar Azocar manager back in it, I found something interesting. It's a Bobby Cox with a non-manager back!

That's two from the same HC set. I got another Azocar manager back a few weeks ago on COMC. The seller had it listed for less than a dollar. I tried to offer him $150.00 for it, but COMC's interface doesn't allow that. I plan to track him down and give him the money some day. Sometimes you can only pay it forward by paying it back. :rolleyes:

Please explain the Oscar Azocar manager back more. Is it rare? I don't believe I've seen any info on this one before.

The card is part of a run of production errors where the red border pattern/inking process was swapped between two sheets. It is a print flaw that affects a handful of the cards (however many manager cards on each sheet, to be specific) as it won't make any difference on the majority of the non manager cards.

They are very rare but are also 100% print flaw errors which some collect and consider legitimate additions while others seem to angrily reject as part of a set's canon. As far as pricing goes, there is no concrete value for them and there likely never will be. The first Azocar that sells will sell for "X" amount and the next may not sell at even 10% of that if there isn't a collector out there with enough interest in it.

True Topps variations like the Whiten, Boyd, etc where Topps made production changes are another story and general have much interest, especially the error-laden 1991 issue.

I always thought the Desert Shield set was one of the best modern sets out there.

Desert Shield
 

Given all the counterfeits/ fakes it is now tougher to build a good set from scratch. Wonder how many versions of it there are if the counterfeits are included :)

Even on real DS cards I have seen 3 different foils used to make the stamp. I have also noticed the stamp does vary slightly from card to card on real DS cards. The thing I notice the most between real and fake stamps are the detail, especially in the stars on the flag.

I like this parallel as well, however, I think it's worth mentioning that there are far fewer "master" 1991 Topps sets out there and that's likely not going to change any time soon.

For reasons unknown, Topps made changes to the cards throughout production and went all out in correcting many of the most insignificant mistakes. This set has some of the toughest and seemingly shortest print-run variations of any Topps issue.

I'm curious to know more about this to see if I can track down the Canseco variations if they exist. Would you let me know what the differences are?

The foil stamp itself will be the same on the same players cards. The stamp changes slightly from player to player like the slight differences in the 89 Fleer Bill Ripken cards from the full 132 count Bill Ripken sheet.

The foil I have seen has 2 different shiny versions and one that has a duller finish.

Master Set
 

Jackson--I agree with you in general about the 1991 set having more variants than any other Topps set. And to your point there are few master 1991 sets I would say there may be none. But that could depend on one's definition of a master set. As far as I know there is no accepted hobby definition of a master set. What is yours ? Would your definition be different for pre and post 1980 sets ? What would be your definition of a master set for any Topps Heritage set ? What would be your definition of a master 1991 Topps set ? Do you have a generic definition that would apply to all sets ?

I do have my own criteria which I apply to all my sets but it breaks down somewhat on the more modern sets. I have a Topps run from 1948 to 2015. I consider my set master if I have all variations listed in SCD, Becketts and The Registry. Additions can happen. iI do collect non listed/recognized variants in my sets, but view them as extras.

The gray area for me comes when a variant gains wide hobby recognition but is not listed in one of those sources, such as the 52 House yellow Tiger. I collect those but do not count them as part of a master. Another gray area, applicable to the 1991 set as well, are stock color and back differences. In or out. Someone might say you need the red and black cards from the
1st series of the 1952 set, but do you need the 52 and 54 gray backs, or the 56, 59 and 60 gray and white backs, or the 53 white and black bios ?:confused:

Not attempting to be argumentative. Everyone can have their own view :). If a master set includes all variant cards, or cards that differ in any way from their counterparts, including unintended recurring or non recurring print defects, then I think there are exactly no master sets out there anywhere ;)

Oh, I agree entirely that even if a consensus was reached on criteria, when it comes to the 1991 issue, there will continue to be additions. That said, I should specify that a 1991 Topps set with the well-known errors (Comstock, Chamberlain, stats), all the advanced errors (Ventura, Tettleton, Coolaugh, et al) and all the key rarities (Whiten, Hoiles, Drabek, Boyd, Morgan, Bush and A*B* codes) plus the Bold 40th parallel and the Sweepstakes set (or as close as one can get) is the approximate of a master set in my example. The bigger point was that there would fewer of those "advanced" 1991 Topps sets than Desert Shield sets.

I have long argued that collecting all the variations for your junk era sets is the only thing that will set them apart in value from the sets without, even 20-40 years from now while they still hold their $5-20 value.

Question on the 1991 sweepstakes cards- are they consecutively numbered from start to finish or are there gaps in the transition from A to B to C to D prefixes? :D

Riddle me this:
Regarding the glow light test. Based upon this pic:

http://www.mycollectionofcards.com/b...029_151049.jpg

would you say there are 4 glow back variations?

Also, for you 1991 topps variation collectors - do you all consider the pink # variation a true collectible variation?

http://www.mycollectionofcards.com/b...Untitled-9.jpg

Also, does anyone out there have either of the 2 cansecos (regular and all star versions) that don't glow ... or glow and have the lighter cardboard background?

Consecutive. 12345-12610. Definite short prints. Possible double or triple prints.