Ridiculous
 

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...a-grade-makes/

I find it LUDICROUS money or not, that people would pay THAT Much money for a card that is probably only different than a 9 by being able to use a 600000x solar electron microscope that is only at top power during the quarter moon.

Simply, a status symbol for needing to own the "only 10". this is why Ive hated grading, cept for its ability to detect fakes/trimmed/altered cards.

Opinions.

Agreed....interesting article, i did not even know that there was a psa 10 clemente rookie.....

So are you calling me LUDICROUS for buying that PSA 10 Aaron RC???

Oh wait, I meant SGC 10... My bad... ;)

I think it's worth keeping in mind that everyone has a personal threshold for what is ludicrous. While some people's may be the premium paid for a 10 over a 9, others would consider $100 for a piece of cardboard ludicrous. To each their own.

Good point.

In the grand scheme of things, we all collect cardboard pictures of dead guys who used to play a game. There's not a whole lot of intrinsic value in that. (...says the guys who has spent more than he cares to admit)

The prices do seem crazy but the label says "10" and that's what they are buying. The "9" may look just as nice but the label doesn't read "10", it reads "9." And that's all the difference in the world.

You also have to appreciate just how much money some people have, so paying six figures sums for some of these cards may not be a big deal to them.

I find the sale fascinating and the question I would ask is not how someone could afford 432K for a Clemente, but why someone would actually think it is worth that much. I bet you would get some interesting answers.

For friendly debate........I am not saying this as necessarily a bad thing but I think I can sum up why it is worth 423k in one word. Ego.

I even admit to collecting and having an "ego" doing it. Why would we ever pay 100s or 1000s for these pieces of cardboard otherwise.

Leon - I am rarely on this side of the board but this thread caught my eye, and your analysis hit the nail on the head.
EGO,,, mine is better than yours, mine is bigger than yours,, older, rich white men playing with what was originally children's cardboard.
To each his own I guess.
Oh, and let's not forget the power of the PSA Set Registry and the ego involved with that. The autograph/memorabilia guys that I know tend to chuckle about registry sets but the marketing genius at PSA who dreamed that one up does deserve a bonus.
I think many if not all collectors do have some ego about what they have. On the autograph side why do so many of us frame our pieces and mount them on walls all over our homes. I know I do :). I love it when a visitor makes a glowing comment about my Thomas Jefferson or Abraham Lincoln signed documents.

Ego is absolutely part of the equation. Maybe the winning bidder believes this is the best Clemente rookie known. Maybe if he was told it was the fourth best he wouldn't even have placed a bid. Who knows. But one thing I believe is he really does think the card is worth that much money. I don't think just because people have a lot of money they are willing to make stupid purchases. Bill Gates can afford to pay $1000 for a hamburger but he never will because he knows no burger is worth that. So I bet the winning bidder will not only tell you he got a good deal but that it was undervalued. And maybe next time around someone will pay him 600K and he'll turn out to be right.

I used to work for a guy who would only drive a Mercedes. He had five or six of them, and if you asked him why he didn't sell one and buy a Cadillac, a Ferrarri, a Ford Taurus or whatever, he'd reply that he would only drive "the best car." It didn't matter if it was a completely subjective thing, in his opinion, Mercedes was the "best."

In some people's opinion, a PSA 10 is "the best." It's just another way to collect. I have no issue with it.

-Al

I find the characterization of "ludicrous" as overly judgmental. If you've got the bucks and it brings you some pleasure, whether it be ego-driven, investment-driven or whatever, why not? Each to his own.

T206 cobb
 

WONDER WHAT A PSA 10 COBB GREEN PORTRAIT WOULD BRING??:eek:

just to be clear
 

Just to be clear if I wasn't. I have NO issue whatsoever with folks doing what they want to with their money. I think it's awesome that folks have the coin to buy what they want. No hard feelings or judgement on my side.

Aaron
 

While I admit not having the means to buy an Aaron 9 or 10 or even an 8, I'm pretty happy with the ones I've had from PSA that were 1.5, 4 and 5!

My ego used to go along with my collecting but in a different way: More cards were better! I'd rather have a dozen Aaron Rookies in all grades than just one pretty darn perfect one!

Richard, yes, that PSA registry idea is a goldmine!

Great article, I really do enjoy that sight. However, this one's my favorite!
From the amount of posts I've made, I see I like to talk!

I've had a bunch of fellow Net 54 friends over my house and I am in contact daily with so many of you. Whether it's doing a deal or just saying hello, I love to say that the finest hobyists I've ever known are the crew here on 54.
I find it comforting to know the future of our hobby is safe as it resides HERE!

Have a great day my friends,
Bill Hedin

For me if I had a extra $450,00.00 I would buy a new house.

The winning bidder for the Clemente posted his thoughts on the PSA board here: Link

Basically, copying his post, this is what he said:

"I also agree that in many cases a sweet 9 is just as appealing as a 10, visually very hard to see the difference...I would have bought a Clemente RC in a 9 if I ever had the chance at a nice one, but the only one I remember seeing for sale in the past 10 yrs had an iffy corner, so I had to make a decision...I typically wont replace 9s with 10s, for example I have a 54 Aaron 9 that actually belonged to Dmitri which he sold bc he was pissed it didnt get it a 10, it is a great looking card and every bit as nice to me as the 2 10s Ive seen. This was more a special situation of actually needing the card, not bumping up from a 9 to a 10. Though I admit on the Brock I have 2 9s and decided to buy the 10 and trade or sell the 9s to fill in other gaps in my collection."

Thanks Gary for the link, although I'm not sure I fully understand why he simply didn't wait for a reasonably nice 9 to come along, since it would have been acceptable to him and cost about 1/20th of the amount he paid for the 10.

Interesting what he said about Dmitiri Young being pissed because one of his 9's didn't get bumped to a 10. I can only imagine what was going on behind the scenes between Young and the graders with respect to his collection.

Barry your post raises a couple of good questions I think.

The buyer stated that he had been looking for a reasonable 9 for 10 years and passed on the only 9 he had seen because he felt the grade was suspect. Isn't that a good example of a high grade collector buying the card and not the holder? Isn't that the exact opposite of how many people claim high grade or registry collectors approach their purchases?

Supposing the story of Young being angry is true, doesn't that show the TPG company standing behind their grade in the face of great pressure from a wealthy force in the hobby? That's counter to what many people claim is often the case as well.

I couldn't afford the shipping insurance on the Clemente, much less the card.

PSA is the only winner in the scenario. No doubt they are flooded with submissions seeking the regrading of 8-9's.

Tim- here are a few further thoughts regarding your comments:

Kudos to the buyer for being patient and waiting for the 10, and not rushing to buy a 9 he didn't like. My question: a 9 is a Mint card, isn't it supposed to be virtually perfect? Sounds like the 9's he looked at may have been overgraded. Why didn't he like the 9's? He even noted one of the 9's he saw had a bad corner- well that's not a Mint card in my book.

Regarding Dmitri Young complaining about a 9 that didn't get the 10 he felt it deserved: Can we assume that that was the only card he complained about? Is it possible he complained about many and got some bumped up to 10's? Can't say for sure, but I'm a suspicious guy by nature, and I'm finding his whole collection a bit puzzling. How did he get so many 10's in the first place? If I submitted those exact cards, would I get the same 10's? I know he didn't submit them all, some were sold to him already graded 10. Let's just say I would love to find out more about this collection, and the history of how the cards got the grades they did. Yes, they all look really nice. But like I said, I'm suspicious of everything.

Barry - If I read that correctly he said in the 10 years he looked he saw one 9. It was the only one he had the opportunity to buy and it had a corner he questioned so he chose to pass on it. After years of looking when the grade 10 was offered he decided the premium was worth paying to end the pursuit of a card within his desired condition parameters.

Regarding Young's collection I think it's fair to want to know as many details as possible. But without the details people assume and in most cases they are skeptical and assume the worst. I just wanted to point out two instances within the story that directly contradict common assumptions made about high grade collector's and TPG companies.

To paraphrase Robin Williams: PSA 10s are God's way of telling you that you make too much money.

Point well taken Tim. It's funny to me to think what the buyer realistically assumed he would have to pay for a 9, and then how much he had to augment that figure to get the 10. It wasn't even the same ballpark.

Do the graders know who is submitting the cards ? I thought they didn't. Any ex-graders on here ?

Obviously, the buyer of the Clemente is extremely well of where it looks like he can easily spend these huge sums. (And there are board members here who also pay big numbers for prewar cards also.) FYI, here is another post from that same buyer in another thread after others were congratulating him on the Clemente purchase and having him post on the forums: Link

Copying the response:

"'a collector of my stature' lol...let me tell you something, I'm 38 years old now, but when I was a kid my dad used to schlep me to the East Coast National and I had barely any budget except what I made at my summer job! I remember looking at all these incredible high end cards at tables where the dealers knew I didnt have dough and wouldnt give me the time of day, too busy dealing with the folks who brought briefcases...

what has changed really? that kid is still inside me, i have no stature, i merely studied hard, got the best education i could, and then worked hard for a # of years in a lucrative industry.

means does not equal stature. stature comes from your passion for something and how you share that passion with others."

The real question here is: What if SGC graded a Clemente rookie SGC 100? And what the heck is the difference between Gem Mint and Pristine anyways?! :)

Again Gary, thanks for the post.

Here is the high end grading scale for SGC, PSA, and BVG, respectively. Note that PSA does not have Pristine and BVG has 9.5, which it considers Gem Mint (equating to PSA 10 and SGC 98).

"to each his own"

the only problem with this statement is whether this purchase has any aggregate effects on the market. if this guy is willing to spend that much money for the card - great for him. but if his extravagant spending has an effect on the rest of the market such that lower grade collectors get priced out (e.g. PSA 7's increase in price by X%), then i wouldnt simply just cast this off as a case of "to each his own." if i was searching for a PSA 7 Aaron and find that this purchase all of sudden bumps up the price of the card, on average, by X amount of dollars, i would be a bit miffed.

however, this is such an extreme outlier that im not sure if it does have an effect (on the demand side at least..supply side, we may see more PSA 8's and 9's flood the market (as someone indirectly alluded to earlier)- which may or may not dampen the cost effect, at least in the long term) - and if it does, it would be relegated to the higher graded cards. of course, if i was a high grade collector, i would be miffed - but, maybe not so much given that the marginal increase in the price of a, say, PSA 8 Aaron, may not have such an impact on a high grade collector's marginal willingness to pay. Maybe it has an effect on PSA 9 and 10 collectors - at that point, were talking about a small proportion of the collecting community.

Along with increased demand for laser cutters.

The difference is, the guy who bought this card probably has an extra $45 million laying around.

Besides ego as a reason for buying this card, if he/she sells it for $500K next year, to make money would be another reason.

These were replies I expected. I guess my motivation for the thread was partly of jealousy, as well as people spending more than I could make, if working, in TEN years on a piece of cardboard.

But, it is up to people themselves. it was just an opinion.

+1

-1

About the same as the difference between probation and double-secret probation.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...deanwormer.jpg

-1 < +1

I have found a PSA grader he sells raw cards on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Ar...item27c71b9d6e

Lee

Sorry, I saw this and had to say something. You do know who bought and sold this, right? I don't know what "old and white" has to do with anything when it was a 38 year old black man who just sold this collection.

Has nothing to do with who bought and then sold it. We are talking about the person who has bought it now and I think he is implying that most people buying these types of cards for collections fall in to the Older White Guy demographic. There is a lot evidence to prove that comment also. Look at the make-up of the board. Most of the big $ collectors fall in the over 40 age.

The guy who bought it is under 40.

I can't wait till I'm 40 I hear that's the sweet spot. :)

Just don't turn 41 cuz then you'll be another old white collector

John I can't imagine what your collection will look like when you hit that age and beyond. It's stunning all ready.

Matt it was the implication I was referring to. I could really careless what age or race of the guy was.

Andrew & Matt, no worries with my love for bacon 40 is a long way off. :)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CaK9bjLy3v4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ik, the implication and stereotype is what's funny. I hope to be an old white collector someday, although I'm kind of a mutt, this is america and anything is possible.

It's worse than we thought.....

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...407%20copy.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...1_5130_1_1.jpg

Hahahahaha!