I collect mostly midgrade, so cannot speak to the discrepancy in high grade or what prices they bring. I'm more than happy with the SGC cards I own, but am not trying to sell them at the moment. For things like corners and overall grade I have always thought they are very comparable to PSA - and their holder and customer service are several notches above.

Sooooo…. you overpaid, and somehow it's SGCs fault?

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture...ictureid=26638

Also (NSFW language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMl9oYSVGlo

#Snicker. I see what he means, it's a bit surprising (and more than a bit disappointing if you need to get the $ out of them...) that NM PSA cards sell for nearly as much as NM-MT+ or higher SGC cards. But alas...this is why I collect PSA 5 and 6's.

I don't blame anyone for my decisions in buying high grade sgc vintage cards and selling within a year after purchase at a loss
I kept my favorite cards...a friend of mine told me to collect what u like and hold
I like obviously Robinson, Mays, Aaron in early years and have kept.
Mantle is out of control
What I am saying is that I've bought in the last 12 months lots of sgc 88s and psa 8s...all below vcp and I've done super on the psa cards and got my ass handed to me on sgcs
Psa is hard on corners and centering
Sgc is also but not as much...they are different...surface is one of their biggest concerns
People buy eye appeal and psa cards have much better corners and centering in general creating that.
Bottom line... it took a my hard head to realize it...
Psa is safe and u r much better owning PSA
I have talked to every major auction house in the hobby
Ask them what to buy. They will say psa by far.
Mid grade vintage sgcs at 4 are comparable to psa .
But high grades in 6 or better
Psa suffocates sgc


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U post frequently
I do not know what u collect
But your posts are intelligent
I put comments out there to get reactions
I stir the pot to get people talking.
If u collect to have certain cards, that is really what the hobby is all about
Enjoyment.
Unfortunately, it has become a money issue..
Sucks!
I don't care about psa or sgc.
I know the sgc president and he's a frickin great guy and fair.
But if u r looking for a fair investment which any reasonable person would...sgc is probably not the way to go.
I'd wait on buying sgc unless it's a super star.
I took a bath on high grade sgc 88s..hall of famers like plank, lajoie recently but made great money on similar names at psa
Not fair.
But I would not buy a sgc card anymore unless its 50 percent less than psa smr.

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Does anyone here think SGC will ever close the gap with PSA? I buy PSA graded but submit with SGC do to the price of grading.

I hope they do because I think they are the better company in terms of presentation of their product, and their customer service. But I would not hold my breath. PSA got up a huge head of steam in their marketing and "desirability" early due to the introduction of the registry. The fact that they are inconsistent (tough on cards in the 1990's - easier - noticeably on vintage - in the early 2000's. Slowly tougher on everything in the early 2010's. Really and in some cases ridiculously tough on vintage after 2015...) doesn't seem to matter for whatever reason in terms of popularity and the prices their cards bring. Also they had a lot of press and publicity over grading the Gretzky Wagner back 20+ years ago - and yes, although they blew it - nobody really cared.

SGC if nothing else will maintain an even keel due to their popularity with prewar collectors and the fact that if not #1, people know they are a solid company with a good rep - and they are not hated like Beckett among vintage collectors.

I would not put raw cards in sgc if you are confident about the grade
Psa sells for 2x what sgc does sometimes higher
If u buy sgc be prepared to get sgc prices back
If u buy psa expect to get a nice percentage back overtime

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Grading is an afterthought to me on most things and not a requirement. I buy graded (mostly PSA) online to try to reduce the risk even on midgrade, but the only company I've ever submitted to is SGC. Other places online besides this forum, and all you ever hear about are the horror stories with PSA turn times, people who haven't seen their cards for 6 months, etc, etc. I'm not signing up for that.

This is a fun, although difficult read at times....given all that is going on today.

I think we are learning for a fact what many have suspected for a long time - the "professional" grading companies at times are anything but professional, and a lot of mistakes and skullduggery even sometimes sneaks through. I'd love to see PSA take a grandiose fall from this mess with PWCC and the alterations, but even now that's probably a long shot...

I have been saying that for many many years, hopefully it finally happens.

On a good note I sold my last high dollar(to me) PSA card about a month ago.:D

Good for you. I still have a number of PSA slabs, but most are hopefully mid-grade and low dollar enough to where I should not have to worry. I hope nobody out there doctored my PSA 6.5 '70 Nolan Ryan...but who knows.

Increasingly online I go after SGC. It sucks though that there are so few choices there still compared to PSA.

PSA is the benchmark...
I have posted on here many times.
PSA cards are not generally better than sgc
PSA is hard on corners but sgc is hard on surface and eye appeal.
Corners aren't everything...
I like needle corners...
PSA has the market and sgc has alot of work to do.


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Have you read any of the recent PWCC / Moser fraud threads? PSA is awful at grading cards. SGC is getting identified as passing $50,000 cards as unaltered. Would love to see your take. I'm up in the middle of the night today too.

The problem is PSA has the cool registry
Sgc doesn't
I have cracked out PSA 8 cards that I thought were 8.5 and came back as 7.5.
I've cracked out sgc 88s that came back as 7s and 8s and one 8.5
It's a frickin crap shoot guys.
PSA has become very very over the top in grading.
Mostly because they r very busy and have dummies grading cards.
Most of u folks reading this know more about grading cards than the clowns PSA has grading.
They are very busy and they suck.
Sgc will give u better service and a realistic value on your investment or hobby

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I don't know much about pwcc
My good friend has said and has decades of experience that pwcc can't be trusted
Many shenanigans
The best companies are mile high and rea
Heritage is corrupt I think too

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I have recently seen an uptick in 1933 Indian gum cards
They are the most beautiful cards in the hobby
They are extremely rare
Any thoughts?
They might be the way to go....history and very very cool.

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I saw on pwcc recently what Indian gum cards are selling for.
WOW!
I've been following them in the last year.
They are sky rocketing in price by 30x in some cases.
They are so rare and hard to find.
Supply and demand I guess.

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All I know right now is that if I am looking to buy an expensive, high grade card...I am not even considering it if it's in a PSA holder. Not with all this

+1, and many collectors feel the same. For me this has led to a greater appreciation of lower grade cards again. If you have a mid-to-lower 1950's star I think for the most part both PSA and SGC are going to be safe. I really hope someone hasn't doctored a '57 Clemente from a 1 to a 3 - but for the 3 you can probably get it for $100 or less. And in many cases they still have a ton of eye appeal.

Anyone with high grade PSA cards
 

Ill still be buying at the national if you have them to sell. i would prefer in this market to buy them in person though so i can make a good assessment. I'll be set up with Andy Madec please feel free to stop by with what you have for sale.

I will say
My 1933 Indian gum cards graded by sgc are unbelievable....excellent
The ones ive seen graded by psa and im only saying this set compared to psa at same grade is not even close.
I can't believe the discrepancy...
I don't know who grades Indian gum cards at psa but sgc is a much better clue.
Ive seen psa Indian cards at 5 that are 3s in sgc
In this set psa lost it.

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I was very disgusted with the pwcc/psa
News.
Im not an expert grader but have been coached by a expert....don't know if he's the best...but i would argue that he may be.
Every gosh darn mistake i made in the hobby
He warned me of and was too stupid to listen
I was so f....g lucky not to lose my ass.
He and i discussed so much over the last couple of years....like half grades and 9s compared to 8s.
My friend was so right
Really...there isn't anyone really in the hobby that can tell between a 8 or a 8.5
Or an 88 or a 92.
Just confuses collector's....no disrespect
No auction owner in this hobby can actually tell u its a 86 or an 84 or a 6.5 or a 7
I've invested 100s of thousands in cards and have not lost my ass....i just love cards and making deals....its my gambling
I don't visit casinos.
What i should have learned from my friend is that u get a good shake from sgc overall
What u pay for an sgc is honest and u get the same honest price out of it if u sell if u bought it at a avg sgc price.
PSA has been the strong and the standard
But now i believe sgc is the strong and the honest when it comes to your dollar.
I have gone back n forth w psa and sgc trying to figure it out
Sgc cards are legitimate
Most PSA cards r too.
But from now on...
I am not talking the chance.....
We r talking big big money

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I truly believe its unfortunate
I have knowledge that hundreds of psa 8s crossed to sgc 88s and when tried to cross back to psa 8s came back lower.
How can u explain that?
All the sudden the grading system changed
Makes me absolutely sick




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Who is this expert you speak of?

psa crappy site
 

I was never a fan of PSA before the scandal, and I'm even more weary now.

For what I collect, historically, PSA are one of the most, if not THE most incompetent grader / researchers in the hobby.

I used to keep a computer file on all the mislabeled, mistakes PSA distributed to the collecting world. Its soon became abundant in my collecting circles that PSA was very unreliable. So we agreed to shut them out. They are not familiar with the materials being submitted, but even worse, didn't do simple google to find out. (I found the cards and sets in less than 5 minutes online)

Needless to say, my interest is not financial, so I will not speak of which company is a better investment except that if you are buying PSA cards that are counterfeit or even worse, fantasy cards, it's your mistake. Caviat Emptor.


I'm playing it safe as PSA has a good possibility of becoming worthless property (yes, I know they have die hard supporters, but so did Hitler and Stalin.) I'm selling off my PSA to those die hard supporters. Yes, I'm profiting from their zeal.

I won't be stuck with tarnished goods.

I'll also be glad to share my finding to anyone who comes to the National. (ask for booth and contact through pm)

Happy hunting

He sounds formidable. :D:D:D

I am preparing a submission of about 25 cards, some 33 Goudeys, T206, and a bunch of 50s and 60s HOFers- Mantles, Aarons and others.

I decided on SGC as they seem to be on par with PSA in pre-war and 60s. And overall, I prefer a lot of things about SGC. However, as I am recording my expected grades and looking up values, I noticed some cards have large discrepancies from PSA.

For example, a 1938 Goudey Heads up Bump Hadley.... I look up 5s, 6s and 7s and there has not been an SGC recorded sale on any of these - EVER. Plenty for PSA. Now, I do not plan on selling anytime soon, but is it not a problem that that there is literally no sale activity on their cards other than the superstars? I guess this stems from lack of registry?