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-   -   1991 Topps info. for those just as crazy as I am (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=242592)

steve B 07-19-2017 10:11 AM

1991 Topps info. for those just as crazy as I am
 
I know a few people are into the 91 Topps, and I decided to actually keep track of some stuff when I opened a box recently. First box of anything I've opened in a long time except for blasters.

Anyway, except for the first couple packs, here's the order the cards were in.
they were all in the pack with the back facing back and the ones in front of the insert with the back facing front. except for two cards that were in reversed, indicated with an r after the number. A bunch of the cards were damaged from the gum, some the gum wouldn't come off at all. the rest were anywhere from almost totally wrecked to barely stained at all.
back to insert, front to insert
202,590,548,782,606,13,48,453/129,600,776,383,749,301,632
705,785,587,745,80,719,736,351,/225,429,641,549,604,355,779,
193,62,601,516,192,695,655,175/364,369,209,757,696,349,261,
690,195,523,155,44,39,479,509,/392,64,294,688,433,588,280
719,736,351,343,489,462,265,100/612,572,416,662,628,615,325,
385,743,464,440,252,332,223,71,/723,239,172,575,761,283,487,
637,314,235,665,422,463,524,670,/500,260,477,112,339,318,656
683,165,650,10,573,584,755,53,/301,632,49,520,263,685,636,
270,447,189,700,756,513,88,621,/211,702,129,600,776,383,749,
445,191,248,164,179,293,538,218,/393,304,354,767,526,408,539,
639,421,217,705,785,587,745,80,/506,32,75,407,733,381,330
746,95,619,86,370,378,657,585,/678,652,744,403,531,255,56,
552,105,583,94,353,121,789,732,/754,204,87,577,361,612,572
533,460,141,249,262,66,770,104,/101,20,16,5,706,735,119
134,29,432,409,108,221,21.671,/676,323,342,224,444,135,233,
183,276,522,472,535,672,199,647,/416,662,628,615,325,506,32
268,40,608,418,96,751,271,738,/75,407,733,381,330,393,304
710,173,52,68,144,791,168,54,/354,767,526,408,539,211,702
164,179,293,538,218,639,421,217,/161,49,520,263,685,636,149,
677,728,109,783,186,530,382,28,/149,34,557,387,58,691,503,
221,420,475,85,185,83,120,624,/466,568,493,537,57,394,474,
775,170,47,89,43,716,187,439,/623,425,291,402,182,711,661
459,731,543,190,483,379,642,305,/529,334,231,405,176,684,400
158,250,373,511,781,208,740,595,/286,146,427,246,614,174,467,
700,756,513,88,621,445,191,248./34,557,387,58,691,503,500
583,94,585,134,29,340,746,95,/136,534,747,629r,313r,70d
82,243,145,490,574,27,350,762,/676,323,765,342,224,444
336,114,321,360,598,674,232,212,/135,233,678,652,744,403,531
279,71,137,81,718,385,743,464,/198,471,560,669,599,259,22
440,252,332,223,296,637,314,235,/668,241,699,23,2,389,126,
665,422,563,524,670,677,728,109,/607,9,397,130,766,17,7
783,186,530,382,28,683,165,650,/239,172,575,761,283,487,171
10,573,584,755,53,270,447,189,/260,477,112,339,318,656,723

12 totally ruined by gum

And here's the list of variations that were there. Most I think were really common. The list I used was from Junkwax gems, (best list, in many ways better than the list I made myself years ago. ) with an addition or two from another online source. There were a few I thought could be unlisted, one I'm very confident about, the others I have to compare to what I've already got. I marked those with * before the card number.
I didn't see any with the spot in the 4 of the 40th logo.
And I haven't checked the backs with the blacklight yet.
I also didn't look much for *a*b varieties, I don't think there were any unless they're below.
One other bit of odd info. All the a and b sheet cards had dark blue, the rest were lighter.

2a George Brett RB incomplete circle around registration symbol on back
9a Darrin Fletcher missing print code on back
21c Joe Morgan MGR with 187 hits on back, 1 printed lower than 87
22c Storm Davis with registration symbol removed from front
48a Oil Can Boyd with hand over 40th anniversary flag
49b Pat Borders 86 Kingston SB totals: 0
80a Fernando Valenzuela missing diamond after 104 runs in 1990*
83a Daryl Boston A*B* print code
100b Don Mattingly 101 hits in 1990
101a Rob Ducey registration symbol printed close to BLUE JAYS in team banner
119a Carl Nichols copyright printed high
155a Dwight Evans 162 games has diamond, A* print code on back
*235 dave parker 78 avg mark between 3 and 4 ?
248 tom gordon 8 in card number clipped right top
270b Mark McGwire SLG .618, A* print code
277a Scott Coolbaugh “feather” in cap
279a Jose Gonzalez Billy Bean photo, left handed
346c Jesse Orosco 5 in 85 stats machine-printed
378b Wilson Alvarez 1989 Port Charles stats included
445b Greg Swindell small registration symbol in banner
459b Tom Trebelhorn MGR B* print code
513b Jerald Clark left photo frame solid orange color
526b Moises Alou 0 runs in 1990
*533 oddibe mc dowell white line through v of braves and into ll of name
573c Rich Rodriguez mark removed, natural colored glove laces
588b Mark Whiten hand inside photo/border
599b Greg Myers 1990 Syracuse stats (not) missing
*607 edgar martinez 7 has clipped ur corner
610a Andres Galarraga white space between glove and bottom left border
614a Luis Salazar missing small amount of black ink in bottom right of photo frame
615b Bert Blyleven MAJ. LEA in small print under stats on back
656a Checklist Palacios 438
673b Greg Olson helmet touches top border
674 kevin gross cor 89bb in 88 led league
676a Scott Chiamparino E*F* print code
677b Billy Ripken A* print code
678b Mark Davidson stats fully printed on back
683b Derek Lilliquist small registration symbol in team banner
685b Doug Drabek black inner photo frame/border
690b Orel Hershiser black border fully printed
695b Kevin Seitzer blue top photo frame border
696a Steve Olin E*F* print code
702b Tim Naehring green circle airbrushed away
706 Brad Arnsberg 62.2 innings in 1990, 138 innings career, 3.39 career era
740a Ryne Sandberg period before name on front


Steve B

ALR-bishop 07-19-2017 10:21 AM

Steve-- no variations in insert or game cards ? :) Any older insert cards ?

Still need 3 of the game cards if they exist

steve B 07-19-2017 03:41 PM

I didn't check yet, but I did put them in number order. All the ones in the box were the same. Mostly D numbers, but with some A -C numbers.

No other year cards. Never pulled one even back then.

Steve B

ALR-bishop 07-20-2017 07:06 AM

As has been discussed elsewhere here, I believe the 1991 set has more variants than any other Topps set, by far. I doubt a complete list of all possible card combinations exists and may never exist. For awhile I tried to keep up with all the differences but gave up.

I much appreciate you sharing the info above. I think it is a fascinating set. I have several unopened boxes but have never opened one. I think it would be fun to find any older card in a pack, even if it were a VG common.

steve B 07-20-2017 11:30 AM

Go for some of the current Topps series 2 then.

Got some today. 2 big packs, one blaster, two old cards. Both mid 80's commons, but with a "rediscover Topps" foil stamping. Ordinarily I'd say the stamping ruined them, but they're penny cards anyway, so I suppose it's cool.

I did get a few redemptions in the 2011? diamond anniversary set.

Peter_Spaeth 07-20-2017 08:19 PM

They're coming to take me away
ha ha

bnorth 07-21-2017 07:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Great info Steve. I am another one that loves this stuff but there is way too much going on with this set for me to collect it.

Here is a pic of one of my stranger 91 cards. In hand it looks to just be missing the red ink on the back. The light yellow tint is only noticeable in pictures of the card taken outside in sunlight.

The entire front and back of the card glows brightly under a black light.

ALR-bishop 07-21-2017 08:04 AM

Anyone know where the guys in the white coats took Peter. We could chip in and send him a couple of variants to cheer him up :)

Peter_Spaeth 07-21-2017 09:56 AM

I'm breaking a full case of 1987 Donruss and writing down the sequence of every card.

steve B 07-21-2017 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1682972)
I'm breaking a full case of 1987 Donruss and writing down the sequence of every card.

^^^

What happens when the smart kid who became a lawyer hangs out with the weird mechanic kid and then runs into a slow spot in business.

Pretty much all the junkwax sets are like this, to me fascinating and so cheap I can collect a whole lot of them. Unfortunately they're also a huge time waster, and outside of a handful of cards are unlikely to be worth much in my lifetime.
They are a bit fun though.

Steve B

steve B 07-21-2017 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1682927)
Great info Steve. I am another one that loves this stuff but there is way too much going on with this set for me to collect it.

Here is a pic of one of my stranger 91 cards. In hand it looks to just be missing the red ink on the back. The light yellow tint is only noticeable in pictures of the card taken outside in sunlight.

The entire front and back of the card glows brightly under a black light.

That's an interesting one!

I think you'd mentioned the glowing as being from a yellow layer. I had doubts, because I'd expect to see some with that layer showing from bad registration.
I'll have to take a few outside.

When I went through my big batch of 91s years ago, I found a few different backs, the "tough" ones react to uv, but oddly. Not the bright glow, but a really dark red. Hard to tell from the ones that don't react, and it takes a strong blacklight. I didn't get far on the fronts, but did find a couple that reacted with a green glow, not strong but visible and probably from the clearcoat or gloss used.

The UV reacting backs go back into at least 84-85, again, not anywhere near as strong as the 91s, but obviously reactive.

Steve B

Peter_Spaeth 07-21-2017 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1682994)
^^^

What happens when the smart kid who became a lawyer hangs out with the weird mechanic kid and then runs into a slow spot in business.

Pretty much all the junkwax sets are like this, to me fascinating and so cheap I can collect a whole lot of them. Unfortunately they're also a huge time waster, and outside of a handful of cards are unlikely to be worth much in my lifetime.
They are a bit fun though.

Steve B

I was pretty much cured of buying boxes when I bought a box of 1990 Leaf Series 2 and did not get a single Frank Thomas.

steve B 07-21-2017 12:16 PM

That was pretty much what I got whenever I bought a full box. None of whatever was the big card at the time.

About the only one I did well with was from an auction. A box of ...I don't even recall what except it was cellos. But it was a bunch of cellos with maybe only 4 different commons on the front. Everyone else avoided it because it had obviously been tampered with so I got it cheap. Like under the original retail cheap. Whoever had it before had decoded the sequence or had paid for a list, and every pack had a good rookie or star inside. Traded them all for some other piece of junk that interested me at the time. At least I got some free cards out of it. :)

Zach Wheat 07-21-2017 01:37 PM

Steve,

Did you notice if the 1991 Topps cards had brighteners added to the red ink? I have spent a lot of time with the 1991 Topps DS set and most if not all seem to have brightener added to the red ink.
Since the DS set was printed in the early stages on the 1991 Topps print run, this should mean that the 1991 Topps set was printed mainly with the red brightener as well. I had always wondered what % of 1991 Topps production had the brightener added....wondering if you have an answer to that question.

Impressive that you have cataloged all of this. Thanks in advance.

Z

bnorth 07-21-2017 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat (Post 1683033)
Steve,

Did you notice if the 1991 Topps cards had brighteners added to the red ink? I have spent a lot of time with the 1991 Topps DS set and most if not all seem to have brightener added to the red ink.
Since the DS set was printed in the early stages on the 1991 Topps print run, this should mean that the 1991 Topps set was printed mainly with the red brightener as well. I had always wondered what % of 1991 Topps production had the brightener added....wondering if you have an answer to that question.

Impressive that you have cataloged all of this. Thanks in advance.

Z

I think the yellow tint that can be seen when I took a picture outside on the Nolan Ryan card is just straight brightener.

From memory I think they are close to 50/50 regular/glow backs if bought in packs. It was close to that in the 1000's I sorted through. I think all the sets are glow backs. I kinda remember this being discussed before.

ALR-bishop 07-21-2017 06:53 PM

This is really clever guys, talking in code so Peter keeps thinking we are crazy.

steve B 07-21-2017 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1683051)
I think the yellow tint that can be seen when I took a picture outside on the Nolan Ryan card is just straight brightener.

From memory I think they are close to 50/50 regular/glow backs if bought in packs. It was close to that in the 1000's I sorted through. I think all the sets are glow backs. I kinda remember this being discussed before.

About a 50/50 split was what I got as well. On both the dark logo backs and the light logo.

The very dark red cards were maybe a hundred out of 5-10,000 but could turn out to be common in a different batch.

Another source shows ones where the frame glows but the logo doesn't, something I'll have to check for.

I also had a few where the cardstock itself reacted with a light bluish white. But there were very few of them, and I couldn't rule out some transfer of fibers/brightener from white paper. I've seen them a couple other places, so maybe it's another version.

I found the glowing backs by accident. I had a nice new blacklight for stamps, and was basically just shining it on the entire room in the dark. Had a box of 91s open and it lit up pretty good, but only about half of it.

Steve B

steve B 07-21-2017 07:10 PM

And as one of those "unexplainable stuff Topps did" things, a yellow brightener layer has got to be right up there. A whole additional plate just to print a layer that's essentially invisible in practice.

Zach Wheat 07-21-2017 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1683113)
This is really clever guys, talking in code so Peter keeps thinking we are crazy.

Actually the master plan is to gather millions of cards to have Peter sort through. We are just in the building anticipation mode currently, Al.

Z

Zach Wheat 07-21-2017 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1683117)
And as one of those "unexplainable stuff Topps did" things, a yellow brightener layer has got to be right up there. A whole additional plate just to print a layer that's essentially invisible in practice.

Steve, does the yellow brightener fluoresce under yellow light too? With glow backs, it is pretty easy to see....

Z

steve B 07-22-2017 01:12 PM

I'll have to check and see what some of mine look like.

The only evidence I've seen of it is the Ryan that Ben posted. I always figured it was different ink used by different printers, or just from a different supplier.

The yellow is light enough I could have missed it, but now I have an idea what to look for it should be findable if it's there.

Steve B

Peter_Spaeth 07-22-2017 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1683113)
This is really clever guys, talking in code so Peter keeps thinking we are crazy.

I may not get the specifics, but the signs of OCD are universal.

JoeDfan 07-24-2017 05:12 PM

Aaaaaaaaarghhhhhhh!!!!

I keep seeing this thread and SPECIFICALLY avoiding it because I keep telling myself that I am DONE with the 1991 Topps, and that my master set is now "good enough".

Dagnabit you people!!!!! Now I am going to go dig out my set in the back of the closet!!!

:D

ALR-bishop 07-24-2017 05:57 PM

1991
 
Sean-- without having the slightest idea what you have I guarantee you do not have a "master " set, if by master you mean every single possible front and back variant or combination thereof :)


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