Scam / Future scam
 

Found this card last night on LETGO. I know not the best place to find vintage but you never know.

Seller asking $300. Cert # checks out with PSA. After reading fine print says item is a reprint. I contact seller and he says it is a reprint in a real PSA holder with reprint flip. No returns accepted. He is also trying to sell a 53T Mantle fake in the same manner.

I feel bad for the true owner of the original PSA 3.

Also with the $300 asking price and verified Cert # from a true PSA 3 this seems to me a fairly clear attempt to fool someone into believing the card is real.

Is this practice widespread? Does anyone see obvious signs that the holder was tampered with or pieced together?

I contact seller and he says it is a reprint in a real PSA holder with reprint flip

So you are saying that he reprinted the flip itself???

and he is selling as authentic??

what caused you to question the guy??

wow

Actually amazing that it does say reprint at all in the listing. This has been going on since grading started. Just crack the slab and replace the card. Was super easy with the old PSA slabs.

Toledo...
 

The fine print in the description mentioned it as a reprint. Since the cert # was from a verified PSA 3 I asked him if that was a typo or really a reprint. That's why I questioned him.

I don't know if he made the flip himself or not.

The slab is frosted all to hell. Easy to see it's a compromised holder. Someone is gonna see $$$ though and get burned.

It could be that the person who is trying to sell that card popped it and kept the real card for himself. Especially if he is selling a similar mantle.

Even though he is saying its a reprint inside, to sell a pig with lipstick is still fraudulent misrepresentation.

For this card, looks like he bought it a couple months ago, let it cool and now trying to flip the flip. That is horrible... Problem is who enforces this, given he is disclaiming the product in the print. That said, he is using PSA's IP to scam people, and perhaps they will care enough to stop this like a weed...

You could also check the bar code to see if it matched the cert. The top edge of the PSA holder has been damaged in that picture. You can see the cracking in the plastic.

For the benefit of those without a similar eye- can those of you who rrecognize issues with the flip (damage, frosting, etc), take a pic and circle/point out where you are seeing these things.

I understand frosting, but sometimes I just don’t see it in pics and other times I think edges look frosted when they are not- real tough tell by pics

He is on ebay now also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-...UAAOSw-b9aoAoL

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Topps-...wAAOSwqURaob4v

I'm not good at doing what you are describing (I'm old school), but I will do my best to point it out....look above the little pirate logo (the actual pirate...not Clemente)...you see how really milky it is? It's not supposed to be like that.....

Look at the top left corner as opposed to the top right.....see the difference? (the corners where the label is - as if you were holding the card vertically)

https://imgsrv.sellersourcebook.com/...june072013.jpg

This was a fake one sold in Mile High Auctions. So people do get fooled. Notice that top of the slab versus the bottom of the slab. The bottom is clear and normal. The top (and the left side).......not so much.

As a matter of fact, because of the clear picture, if you follow the bottom on along the path, you can see where it turns from looking normal to looking fake (especially if you go from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock, and 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock).....you can see exactly how he did it and inserted the card into the top of the slab.

I guess I'm not sure why this irritates me so much - but it does. How is it that eBay can let this slide - ruffed up reprints in a valid PSA slab? Maybe if they were Mint Reprint examples (which would make the scam much more obvious). To me this is clearly hoping someone doesn't read well or at all. $50 bucks on a crap Clemente Reprint is ridiculous.

For the Clemente and Mantle you can see the holder damage much better on the ebay scans... The more worrisome aspect is where did such reprints come from?

Can't find any real tip offs except maybe on the Mantle where on bottom front "Outfielder" looks a little fuzzy?

Thoughts?

I don't think that's the issue. The seller is being as up front as he can that he's selling a reprint. The issue I have is that whoever wins this auction is probably doing so with the intent of passing this off as a real card, scamming someone else down the road. I do agree this should not be allowed on eBay.

Nowhere on the card does it say “reprint”

The problem is that the seller is using a PSA label that came with an authenticated card. It doesn't matter if the seller is disclosing this as a reprint because after he sells it then who is to say the next seller is going to disclose that. Pretty sure the next seller is probably going to buy it to screw somebody over. On ebay, select the "REPORT AN ITEM" link and report this crap.

As far as reprint cards go you have to assume the makers of the card fixed anything that may have given the cards away as being reprints and that they now look like the real thing. On ebay there are a lot of star players being sold as reprints that look like the real cards. How many are being sold without disclosing they are reprints and making their way into holders. On my last submission to one of the big 3 card graders, when I got the cards back 2 of them came back with the holders "apart" and not even sealed. They were both lower priced cards and not star cards but what if they were? How many times does this happen?

If this was reported to PSA would they pull the cert #?

If you can show that he is using the original flip they might care, maybe not. I assumed it’s a copy of a flip, not an actual PSA flip. In which case the owner of the authentic slabbed card would be quite upset if PSA pulled the cert #.


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The sales pitch is ridiculous, "A 1955 Topps Roberto Clemente can sell from $600 to $1,000 dollars and you can pick this one up for a fraction of that price." Like I want a beater reprint in a phony slab, when I could have a dead-centered mint one for probably $5. Bottom line: that label doesn't represent the actual cardboard in the slab, so it's a current AND future SCAM

I LOATHE all reprints. Some may disagree but reprints are nothing short of counterfeits UNLESS they are clearly stamped "Reprint" on the card. Opens the door for this thievery.

Guys let's stop calling a counterfeit a reprint. Two very different things.

Very helpful, thanks!

Obviously, any scam is awful for the hobby. But the overwhelming amount of scams target high grade cards.

The really insidious part of this scam is that many people will not even look closely that a PSA 3 of a 1950s card is real.

Personally, I'm rather miffed, and will always be so, at the fact that Topps released reprints and didn't have any signifying characteristics on the card showing that it's in fact a reprint. A huge slap in the face to collectors, IMO.

I agree with this. No way should a legit card company make reprints that are not easily identifiable. And I want to know how to find a buyer for a card, clearly marked reprint in the title, to pay $175 for it!!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-...p2047675.l2557

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Topps-...wAAOSwqURaob4v

What cards or sets has Topps reprinted without any "signifying characteristics on the card showing that it's in fact a reprint"?

I agree Randy, every legit Topps reprint I have ever seen or heard of is labeled. The good fakes are counterfeits not reprints, afaik.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance on the topic if, in fact, the cards that are being used to dupe buyers are counterfeits and weren't released by Topps as some sort of special reprinted set. I just always assumed that they were just a reissue by Topps to make money.

Hi Ryan, Topps has reprinted several issues including the 1952-1954 Topps sets. Those were 2.5x3.5" unlike the oversize originals. They've also reprinted many popular players like Mantle, Clemente, Rose and others, but they are all dated the year of issue, and they are often glossy or shiny and can't be confused with the originals.

The big problem on Ebay is counterfeits.

Are these counterfeits made from scratch?

I've heard plenty about the '52 Mantle, but if they are being counterfeited then why do they continually have the same known type of errors?